Problems with a superior

[Karim]

Hi everyone.

Earlier this week, I was discussing the practice of using 3pin XLR instead if 3pin DMX with a staff member at my school and an alumnus.

Now, I know for a fact that this staff member believes that XLR should never be used instead of DMX, and since that is what he had taught me, that's what I said I believed, but when the alumnus said that he thought it wasn't an issue, the staff member immediately agreed with him. I've seen this staff member rip into students for doing the very same thing he just agreed was normal practice!

Then I realized that he does this quite a bit, at least to me. He tends to just stand on the opposite side from me.

Reading this again to myself, I hear that I might sound like a whiny insecure kid, but I assure you that's not the main issue. I genuinely feel like this person goes out of their way to make me feel wrong, and I'm very bothered by it. I was hoping someone had some advice. Is there something I can do? I can't avoid this person, so how should I handle the situation?

Anything you have to say would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Also, in unrelated news, this is my first thread! I promise they won't have this tone! :P

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[shiben]

Hi everyone.

Earlier this week, I was discussing the practice of using 3pin XLR instead if 3pin DMX with a staff member at my school and an alumnus.

Now, I know for a fact that this staff member believes that XLR should never be used instead of DMX, and since that is what he had taught me, that's what I said I believed, but when the alumnus said that he thought it wasn't an issue, the staff member immediately agreed with him. I've seen this staff member rip into students for doing the very same thing he just agreed was normal practice!

Then I realized that he does this quite a bit, at least to me. He tends to just stand on the opposite side from me.

Reading this again to myself, I hear that I might sound like a whiny insecure kid, but I assure you that's not the main issue. I genuinely feel like this person goes out of their way to make me feel wrong, and I'm very bothered by it. I was hoping someone had some advice. Is there something I can do? I can't avoid this person, so how should I handle the situation?

Anything you have to say would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Also, in unrelated news, this is my first thread! I promise they won't have this tone! :P

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Well, it ends up being a problem I have run into a lot. Had a pair of bosses who did it constantly once. I found the best was to simply, whenever you are in front of a client, deffer to their opinion at the time. I know it sucks, but you kind of have to deal with it. Standing up and being hey sucker, your wrong is a good way to get your rear fired or worse, stuck sweeping floors until you quit. Otherwise, you could probably bring up a question of impedance in the instance stated, mostly ask like you dont know what the right answer is and want to learn. Its the only way any of this is getting ok, is let the guy figure out you want to learn and let him do the teaching there... If they wont teach or after teaching be a jerk and just jump on you whenever, how much do you need that gig? Honestly, you say you cant avoid them, but if they just want you to be wrong all the time, your choice is to grit it out and stop caring (something a lot of us have done a long time ago), or leave the job and find somewhere else to work. You wont ever change them, and talking to them just lets them know they are getting to you at worst, and at best that your a whiny brat (not saying you are either of these, just how you will come off). In my case, I ended up deciding I didnt need to work for someone who would not let me learn the right way to do things and constantly made me into a clown in front of important clients. I told him so and left before he could fire me. Was not the best moment ever, but it had to be done. Had to work with them on and off for two more years, and that was awkward. Basically, you might have to make a really uncomfortable decision, but make the one that lets you advance the best and learn the most. Thats my 2 cents, Gafftaper and Footer doubtless have other ideas as well.

[Pie4Weebl]

I'm not sure if his comment had to so much with disagreeing with you as wanting to be agreeable to the alumni.

[cpf]

Hi everyone.

Earlier this week, I was discussing the practice of using 3pin XLR instead if 3pin DMX with a staff member at my school and an alumnus.

Now, I know for a fact that this staff member believes that XLR should never be used instead of DMX, and since that is what he had taught me, that's what I said I believed, but when the alumnus said that he thought it wasn't an issue, the staff member immediately agreed with him. I've seen this staff member rip into students for doing the very same thing he just agreed was normal practice!

Then I realized that he does this quite a bit, at least to me. He tends to just stand on the opposite side from me.

Reading this again to myself, I hear that I might sound like a whiny insecure kid, but I assure you that's not the main issue. I genuinely feel like this person goes out of their way to make me feel wrong, and I'm very bothered by it. I was hoping someone had some advice. Is there something I can do? I can't avoid this person, so how should I handle the situation?

Anything you have to say would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Also, in unrelated news, this is my first thread! I promise they won't have this tone! :P

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

IMO just let it ride, but if the problem gets too bad I'd just wait until they tell someone that 3-pin XLR is just as good as 5-pin DMX (or whatever), then ask them innocently that you thought it was the other way around. I doubt they're doing it just to spite you.

[Les]

Arguably, 3-pin DMX is just as good as 5-pin DMX, as long as the correct cables are used between the connectors and the other 2 pins aren't being used.

XLR is the connector type. Both DMX and audio use variants of XLR's (3-pin and 5-pin most commonly). I think the argument is that mic cables are not suitable for transmitting DMX; which would be correct.

[Karim]

@weebl-Perhaps in this situation that is the case, but it has served to open my eyes to past encounters.

@shiben I was afraid of being told to "suck it up". I guess I don't *need* to work with him. I just don't like when people don't like me for no reason I guess.

This might be too philosophical, but why do people get like that? :/

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[cpf]

Arguably, 3-pin DMX is just as good as 5-pin DMX, as long as the correct cables are used between the connectors and the other 2 pins aren't being used.

XLR is the connector type. Both DMX and audio use variants of XLR's (3-pin and 5-pin most commonly). I think the argument is that mic cables are not suitable for transmitting DMX; which would be correct.

I was shortening it up for impact

[Les]

I was shortening it up for impact

Good call! The meat of this thread is about disrespect and not connector types, so I hope I didn't divert too much .

[Karim]

Good call! The meat of this thread is about disrespect and not connector types, so I hope I didn't divert too much .

Oh no! That's interesting information too!

I remember hearing something about the way the cables are shielded having something to do with why they aren't commonly substituted for one another back in high school. XLR or "audio cable" is more heavily shielded than DMX? Is this untrue?

[tjrobb]

Bonus points for correct usage of "alumnus."

[standup]

This guy does the best job explaining the difference between the two cables that I've seen (and he takes his own apart so you don't have to). DMX is a data cable, like the cable you use to connect your iPod, phone, whatever, to your computer. It is designed to cary an accurate signal. An audio XLR cable isn't designed to do that, it is designed to carry a stronger electrical signal. DMX has significantly more shielding than an audio cable. (but that isn't the point of your thread.)

Going back to your problem, some people are just like that. I've dealt with some people who who take their frustrations out on the first person they see (isn't it funny how that's usually me :shock: ). Some people are great at what they do but don't interact with others well. Others are just jerks.

As to how to deal with it. It's really up to you. If you want to keep working there you can let the person know it isn't ok that they're doing that. If they don't change their behavior, notify their superior. If you don't, walk out with your head held high and make sure everyone you know knows how he treated you.

Best of luck with dealing with your superior.

[MrsFooter]

I just don't like when people don't like me for no reason I guess.

Holy monkey grapes, do I feel you. It's extremely frustrating when it feels like someone has it in for you for no apparent reason. I've had a couple road LD's walk into the space and decide before I've even opened my mouth that I am a useless waste of space who will inevitably destroy everything. Makes what could otherwise be a pretty easy day a living hell.

(I would like to state for the record that I'm speaking under the assumption that this guy DOES actually have something against you and didn't just accidentally slip up or something of the like. The case could be otherwise, but for the sake of discussion let's assume this guy is purposely being a jerkwad.)

Here's the thing, dude. At the end of the day, only you can say for sure how much you can stand without killing your soul and whether this gig and the experience it affords is worth it. If the experiences you're walking away with outweigh this asshat messing with you, stick around. Take deep breaths, count to 10, try not to punch the walls. No matter how skilled and charming you may be, not everyone will like you. I repeat: not everyone will like you. It's part of life, and a part of life is learning how to deal with the people who don't like you.

As far as why people get like that...who knows? Maybe he's not feeling secure in his own position, and is therefor quick to agree with anyone he feels might know more than him. Maybe he's been in academia for too long and is bitter and angry and gets enjoyment in yanking you around. Or maybe someone has been stealing his favorite parking spot every morning. It's hard to say. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter why he's like that. What matters are his actions and your actions in response. And only you in your deepest gut can say what your next action should be.

[Karim]

It's part of life, and a part of life is learning how to deal with the people who don't like you.

Yeah...that feels like a good way of putting it. I guess I should use this as a learning experience. As much as I want to be liked, I guess not everyone has good taste (just kidding! )

I've decided to just keep being me. I figure I'll keep asking him questions and expressing my opinions in a normal way until something changes or I move on with my career. I won't let him get to me by changing, but I won't cause a scene by talking about him behind his back or anything like that. Besides, there's always the rest of the crew to keep me company.

This guy does the best job explaining the difference between the two cables that I've seen (and he takes his own apart so you don't have to). DMX is a data cable, like the cable you use to connect your iPod, phone, whatever, to your computer. It is designed to cary an accurate signal. An audio XLR cable isn't designed to do that, it is designed to carry a stronger electrical signal. DMX has significantly more shielding than an audio cable. (but that isn't the point of your thread.)

Going back to your problem, some people are just like that. I've dealt with some people who who take their frustrations out on the first person they see (isn't it funny how that's usually me :shock: ). Some people are great at what they do but don't interact with others well. Others are just jerks.

As to how to deal with it. It's really up to you. If you want to keep working there you can let the person know it isn't ok that they're doing that. If they don't change their behavior, notify their superior. If you don't, walk out with your head held high and make sure everyone you know knows how he treated you.

Best of luck with dealing with your superior.

Thanks! I'll keep my head up. And that video was very easy to understand! I appreciate it. I always seem to forget how good of a tool youtube can be.

Bonus points for correct usage of "alumnus."

Hahaha!

Thanks for all of your help everyone.

[Chris Chapman]

An interesting side note about this is the amount of DJ gear out their that does use 3pin DMX. (I'm not defending it.) There may be a gear/facility/budget issue here that the OP is not aware of.

[museav]

To the OP, my initial reaction was the same a Pie4Weebl, that the person's response was not necessarily about or directed at you. That may or may not be true, one thing I've come to realize is that interpersonal dynamics are complex and without being directly involved it is all too easy to miss some important aspect and come to erroneous conclusions.

Just to think a bit outside the box, is there a chance that they could be trying to get you to defend your comments? To see that you aren't just repeating what you were told but actually understand it?

This guy does the best job explaining the difference between the two cables that I've seen (and he takes his own apart so you don't have to). DMX is a data cable, like the cable you use to connect your iPod, phone, whatever, to your computer. It is designed to cary an accurate signal. An audio XLR cable isn't designed to do that, it is designed to carry a stronger electrical signal. DMX has significantly more shielding than an audio cable. (but that isn't the point of your thread.).

That is one of the more useless videos I've seen. You're hardly an authority when you apparently don't know the difference between a "cable" and a "conductor". It's less than reassuring when the technical basis presented includes one cable being marked "audio" on the jacket and the other marked "data". And it displays some lack of relevant knowledge and experience when you open up one specific audio cable product and one specific DMX cable product and apparently assume all other cables would be exactly the same (they're not).

A perhaps more accurate synopsis is that typical microphone/analog audio cable is lower impedance and higher capacitance than the cable used in a "DMX cable", which means that an audio/mic cable may work fine for DMX at shorter distances but could incur problems at longer distances. However, digital audio cable, which is also "audio" cable and has the same basic construction as an analog audio cable, carries data just like DMX does and is the same impedance as DMX cable as well as being lower capacitance. And guess what, digital audio cable can be used for analog audio and microphones, in fact the lower capacitance can reduce high frequency roll-off in long microphone runs. On some projects I use AES digital compatible cable for all of the mic and line level audio cable.

A detail, but the OP refers to DMX cables and XLR cables. "XLR" is a simply connector that can be used for a variety of purposes, in fact a "DMX" cable would have XLR connectors.

[mstaylor]

There may be a couple of things going on. He may agreed becuase he wants to keep an alumnus happy. He may not be secure enough in his knowledge or is insecure by nature. This can lead to two things, he is a know-it-all to underlings, but subservient to superiors. I worked for my cousin for a number of years and he was exactly this way. He was an absolutely incredible carpenter but if it wasn't his idea then you were wrong. If he told you how to do something and you did exactly that, he found a reason you should have modified his instructions. If you freelanced then you didn't do it his way. Very frustrating but I could see his talent so I sucked it up, learned how to build houses and started my own company. I went on to build some fantastic homes that were featured in magazines and Anderson TV ads.
My point is, if you think he has enough to teach you, then stick. If he doesn't, then tell him to pack sand. Sticking doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. I never was and my cousin quickly figured out I was really good at figuring out tech or assembly stuff. If it came to something that he knew I could do faster than him, He would go to the lumber yarrd and tell me to figure it while he was gone.
I am also a proponent of questioning his assertions but asking for clarifications? Ask if he meant regular mic cables were ok or DMX cable with 3 pin XLR? Instead of challenging his knowledge, clarify yours, and in doing so clarify his.

[gafftaper]

First off, I'm guessing that your situation is you are an undergrad and this is the professor whom you do the majority of your work with. So you are stuck with this person for another year or two AND they give you a grade as well. Correct? If that's the case you need to be careful and suck it up and do the job. If they don't like you, find a way to make them like you. See the list at the bottom of this thread and change any of these potential danger areas about yourself. Grow in your skills, ask good questions, impress the person with your work, and respect his/her position as your Jedi Master.

I too agree that there is a good chance this was simply a matter of trying to make the other person happy so that he/she would go away (I'll say anything to get a former student I can't stand to leave ). The best response would have been for you to wait for the other person to leave and then RESPECTFULLY ask the question, "I am confused about what you just said. I must have misunderstood something in lecture about DMX vs. XLR. Can you explain it to me?" Humble, and assuming you made the mistake and not the prof. Ask about the content not the intent behind what was said. It would have been best if you asked it right away but you could still come back and say, "Hey I was thinking about what you said last week and I'm still a little confused, can you help me?" Don't be confrontational, be submissive and respectful to your Jedi Master and you will be rewarded Padawan (and I'm not really joking with that analogy).

I find it really hard to believe that the faculty person would throw you under the bus in front of someone else just for his/her own jollies. That just doesn't make sense. You are a student and I am your teacher. If I don't like you, you definitely aren't important enough in my world that I somehow need your approval or your suffering to make my day any better. It just doesn't work like that. If I didn't like you I would do my best to find ways to get you to work with someone else or work on your own. Shaming you in front of another student by answering something incorrectly myself, just doesn't make sense to me.

NOTE: Karim I'm not saying any of what follows is true about YOU personally, I don't know you. What I am doing is trying to be really honest and give you (and the other students reading) a view into the typical T.D./Prof mindset. ON the other hand if you identify with any of the issues below, make it your number one priority to fix them now or change careers. Because someone who does these behaviors will rapidly find it very difficult to find work in this industry as word travels fast. Us grumpy old T.D.'s are all pretty much all cut from the same bolt of cloth. We don't necessarily like the smartest students or the students from the "best high school program". We like a hard working, responsible student, with a proven track record, and a team attitude, who knows when to shut up and when to interrupt with a good question. We like a student who treats everyone with respect, who is willing to listen, grow, and be molded into the kind of tech WE want to make of you. If you say yes to all those things, I can pretty much guarantee your prof likes you. If a college prof truly doesn't like a student I pretty much guarantee it's because of one of the following four issues:
a) You are a know it all who drives people crazy with your attitude. This is a VERY serious problem. Stop talking and start listening. Be humble and respectful. You are going to destroy yourself before you even apply for your first job. Once word of your attitude gets out, no one in town will hire you and word travels fast.
b) You are lazy and don't care about the quality of your work. If I have to spend all my time fixing your work you are of no use to me.
c) You can't be counted on to show up on time and finish the job. If you can't show up on time, don't bother showing up at all.
d) You've got some weird personality quirk that drives people crazy and slowly destroys crews. I had this one student who spent all his time making up lies about how awesome he was. These kinds of people can be really divisive to crews. Be part of the team and deal with your personality issues.

[Karim]

First off, I'm guessing that your situation is you are an undergrad and this is the professor whom you do the majority of your work with. So you are stuck with this person for another year or two AND they give you a grade as well. Correct? If that's the case you need to be careful and suck it up and do the job. If they don't like you, find a way to make them like you. See the list at the bottom of this thread and change any of these potential danger areas about yourself. Grow in your skills, ask good questions, impress the person with your work, and respect his/her position as your Jedi Master.

I too agree that there is a good chance this was simply a matter of trying to make the other person happy so that he/she would go away (I'll say anything to get a former student I can't stand to leave ). The best response would have been for you to wait for the other person to leave and then RESPECTFULLY ask the question, "I am confused about what you just said. I must have misunderstood something in lecture about DMX vs. XLR. Can you explain it to me?" Humble, and assuming you made the mistake and not the prof. Ask about the content not the intent behind what was said. It would have been best if you asked it right away but you could still come back and say, "Hey I was thinking about what you said last week and I'm still a little confused, can you help me?" Don't be confrontational, be submissive and respectful to your Jedi Master and you will be rewarded Padawan (and I'm not really joking with that analogy).

I find it really hard to believe that the faculty person would throw you under the bus in front of someone else just for his/her own jollies. That just doesn't make sense. You are a student and I am your teacher. If I don't like you, you definitely aren't important enough in my world that I somehow need your approval or your suffering to make my day any better. It just doesn't work like that. If I didn't like you I would do my best to find ways to get you to work with someone else or work on your own. Shaming you in front of another student by answering something incorrectly myself, just doesn't make sense to me.

NOTE: Karim I'm not saying any of what follows is true about YOU personally, I don't know you. What I am doing is trying to be really honest and give you (and the other students reading) a view into the typical T.D./Prof mindset. ON the other hand if you identify with any of the issues below, make it your number one priority to fix them now or change careers. Because someone who does these behaviors will rapidly find it very difficult to find work in this industry as word travels fast. Us grumpy old T.D.'s are all pretty much all cut from the same bolt of cloth. We don't necessarily like the smartest students or the students from the "best high school program". We like a hard working, responsible student, with a proven track record, and a team attitude, who knows when to shut up and when to interrupt with a good question. We like a student who treats everyone with respect, who is willing to listen, grow, and be molded into the kind of tech WE want to make of you. If you say yes to all those things, I can pretty much guarantee your prof likes you. If a college prof truly doesn't like a student I pretty much guarantee it's because of one of the following four issues:
a) You are a know it all who drives people crazy with your attitude. This is a VERY serious problem. Stop talking and start listening. Be humble and respectful. You are going to destroy yourself before you even apply for your first job. Once word of your attitude gets out, no one in town will hire you and word travels fast.
b) You are lazy and don't care about the quality of your work. If I have to spend all my time fixing your work you are of no use to me.
c) You can't be counted on to show up on time and finish the job. If you can't show up on time, don't bother showing up at all.
d) You've got some weird personality quirk that drives people crazy and slowly destroys crews. I had this one student who spent all his time making up lies about how awesome he was. These kinds of people can be really divisive to crews. Be part of the team and deal with your personality issues.

Your guesses are correct.

I know a-c don't apply to me, and I would like to think d doesn't, but I guess that I can't accurately judge that for myself. :/

I hope that's not an issue. I have no idea how I'd go about fixing it. I'm starting to think more and more that I should just ask him if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill or if there's something to this. I mean, that question can't be anything but awkward, but if the people in this thread have shown me anything, it's that there are so many potential problems (or potentially none at all), that there's no way I'll be able to just "figure it out".



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[mstaylor]

Two things before you throw yourself under the bus. Talk to others in the shop and see if he does the same to them. Also, and this could be uncomfortable, ask about your effect on others in the shop. Then go to your boss/instructor and clarify the conversation. Was he referring to the use of three pin DMX cables vs 5 pin DMX cables or was he advocating using regular mic cables for data cables. There is a big difference between the two conversations.

[gafftaper]

+1 to what Michael said about talking to others in the shop then just straight up asking the person. Again, phrase the question as, "I am confused and would like further instruction..." not "What were you doing saying that?"

[Karim]

Two things before you throw yourself under the bus. Talk to others in the shop and see if he does the same to them. Also, and this could be uncomfortable, ask about your effect on others in the shop. Then go to your boss/instructor and clarify the conversation. Was he referring to the use of three pin DMX cables vs 5 pin DMX cables or was he advocating using regular mic cables for data cables. There is a big difference between the two conversations.

+1 to what Michael said about talking to others in the shop then just straight up asking the person. Again, phrase the question as, "I am confused and would like further instruction..." not "What were you doing saying that?"

That's a fair point, I'll talk to some other people first. And I understand what you're saying about phrasing.

Thanks for your concern and advice.

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