New Theater Recommendations?

[MrDoItAll]

So my dream has come true, and we are building a new theater. We are in the planning stages right now, and my superintendent wants a list of recommendations. I have been working out of the loop for a long time...an auditeria <sigh>, so I don't even know where to begin.

It appears that we are looking at a house size of about 500-600 (though I am not sure of that). No balcony. Your generic high school new construction. It will have to be multipurpose for theater productions, choir/band/orchestra concerts, community groups, etc. I am sure if I don't fight well, I'll get screwed in the process. I want to know everything.

What do you have that you can't live without?
What do you really wish you would have done?
What mistakes can you help me avoid?
What was a huge waste of time and money?
What questions should I be asking myself that I haven't thought of?

And specifics... How much electricity? What kind of boards (sound and light)? How many dimmers? Fly system: yes or no. How much storage space? What kind of seats?

I am just a little overwhelmed.

Help!

[Footer]

First things first, do a search, we have a lot of info on this subject. It has not come up lately, but when Gafftaper was building his new space we all walked through everything together. I'll bite off one question.

Originally Posted by MrDoItAll

Fly system: yes or no.

It depends. Is there always going to be a full time TD around? Will the space be able to be secured, or will classes be happening onstage?

The "new building" plans are somewhat in the works at my school. We are looking at 5 years at least however. I have already said that I will not put in a counterweight fly system. I do want a system though and I will be pushing heavily for winches. Yes, it will cost more, but then again I don't worry as much.

The HS I went to had a fly system and I learned a lot from it. That being said though, I do not feel comfortable flying large scenic pieces with students around. They are fine once you get them up in the air, but asking a 10 students to handle 2 bull lines with an 750# piece on the ground is not a fun thing to do. I trust them to operate the system and throw weight, but I do not trust them to get stuff off the ground.

So, that being said, I would push heavily for a winch operated system, either a Vortek or a JR Clancy rig. If you call these companies, they will be out there in a second with every safety figure to let your administrators know why the extra expense is worth it.

Vortek ? Automated Stage Rigging Systems, Hoists and Controls for Theaters, Auditoriums and Arenas.
Theatre & Stage Equipment Products - PowerLift Automated Hoists

[Van]

Take a deep breath and don't be overwhelmed. You should have a warm fuzzy feeling, you're getting a new facility! This is a happy, Joyous time!
Ok it'll be a PITA too, but you should be Joyous and happy for a bit first.
Number one, use that search button, if you haven't already, there are a ton of threads on this subject, as a matter of fact one of the reasons Gafftaper signed up in the first place was the he was in a situation exactly like yours. < he may prove to be an invaluable resource for you as he has gone through this same process inside an educational institution.>
Second, Dream a little! Make a list of what you like to have and what you think you need.
Third, don't worry that you'll have any say in the matter of what you wind up with when all is said and done. You district is going to choose an Architectural firm. They'll have a "Theatrical Consultant" on retainer, who will at least have a clue as to what a Theatre looks like and some inkling of what it's used for if not how. You can make requests, require certain elements, but at the end of the day the Archi's and the contractors, and the funding gurus are the ones that are going to get the final say as to what gets installed.
Check through some of the threads here on the subject, you get a good heads start on a lot of issues that may crop up later that way.
Congrats on the new facility, and be sure to keep us informed as the process moves along.

[MrDoItAll]

Thanks both of you. I've been digging around for a few weeks here (and decided to join just recently). Maybe I haven't yet mastered the search functions, because I hadn't run across much in this vein. After digging more (and looking at Gafftaper's posts), I found some. I'll keep on digging. Surely I'm just looking for the wrong thing.

Luckily, the community is looking at this auditorium as a trophy for the area, and it seems that they want to do it right. But, as many have said, budget will have the final word. I am indeed excited. Terrified and excited.

[themuzicman]

We didn't have a fly system in high school, and I feel that helped us a bit, though I wish the ceiling were higher, or we had the opportunity to run basic hemp lines in a safe manner.

the biggest thing I think you need is speaker access. In my high school the speakers were inaccessible, so when they broke, we really couldn't get to them, and they stayed broken. Make sure you have places to hang speakers, and areas to run lines through.

[hsaunier]

Call me. We just completed a High school / Middle school with a $10mil auditorium.

[ishboo]

One thing I'd be careful of is who specs out your lighting and sound systems. I'm not sure exactly how it worked out with our new theatre that was built last year but the school accepted bids on someone who would put together the lighting, sound, etc. systems of the new venue. The school then accepted the lowest bid not knowing anything about this and we got some guy who either doesn't know a whole lot about lighting and sound or just gave us the cheapest stuff so he could get his paycheck. (I would put my money on the latter) Either way we ended up with an atrocious lighting system. Bottom of the line lightboard of which I couldn't even begin to list off the problems we've had with it. Along with that we got a bunch of unreliable dimmers and with all that, awful customer service that recommends we open up the light board and jostle cables when it is broken. The bottom line is double check these kind of recommendations and make sure you are getting reliable technology so you don't end up regretting it.

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by ishboo

Either way we ended up with an atrocious lighting system. Bottom of the line lightboard of which I couldn't even begin to list off the problems we've had with it. Along with that we got a bunch of unreliable dimmers and with all that, awful customer service that recommends we open up the light board and jostle cables when it is broken.

Take Heed of this warning.

We had the same thing happen, and we ended up with a Horizon Lighting Console (free, discontinued, computerized board system) in our main theatre, a 25 channel lighttronics board in our blackbox, and dimmers we can't find anywhere (thrown in a closet we can't find somewhere?!), add to that the fact that the dimmers are unreliable as anything, and have terrible problems with phantom current.

Our sound system had some decent money put in to it, but had terrible execution. The speakers were inaccessible (blame it on the architect), and the wires were too long, and too high of a gauge so we had terrible drain on quality, and the wiring was terrible.

In the end - make sure you know what you are getting for the money, look over the purchase orders and bids. Do your homework, have fun.

[Van]

Originally Posted by ishboo

One thing I'd be careful of is who specs out your lighting and sound systems. I'm not sure exactly how it worked out with our new theatre that was built last year but the school accepted bids on someone who would put together the lighting, sound, etc. systems of the new venue. The school then accepted the lowest bid not knowing anything about this and we got some guy who either doesn't know a whole lot about lighting and sound or just gave us the cheapest stuff so he could get his paycheck. (I would put my money on the latter) Either way we ended up with an atrocious lighting system. Bottom of the line lightboard of which I couldn't even begin to list off the problems we've had with it. Along with that we got a bunch of unreliable dimmers and with all that, awful customer service that recommends we open up the light board and jostle cables when it is broken. The bottom line is double check these kind of recommendations and make sure you are getting reliable technology so you don't end up regretting it.

The above will wind up being one of your biggest headaches. The facility you wind up with is only as good as the budget you have, the Architects, and the Theatre Consultant.
No matter what you ask everyone is going to have a particular area which they will tell you is THE MOST IMPORTANT. When all is said and done, what matters the absolute most is that you have a facility which works for everyone involved, and hopefully inconveniences everyone the same amount. There is no way around "the lowest Bidder" debacle, that is the way government institution are run. The School and the General Contractor are obligated to go with the lowest bid, that is the law in most States. The biggest, most crucial part of the process is writing up the actual "Specifications for Bid" or the peice of paper that goes out to the contractors that tells them what they are going to be offering to work on or supply. If my specs said ; " Contractor to supply 20 lekos, 10 fresnels,12 parcans, 24 1.2k dimmers, a control board with a minimum of 12 channels of control."
then a contractor could deliver 20 360q's , 10 6k hmi Fresnels, 12 par 36's and 2 old EDI racks with an analog controller.
"Everyone would scream But that's not what I wanted!" to which the contractor could respond, " that's what you spec'd"
and he'd be right.
Typically during the spec's process you are not allowed to single out a particular manufacturer, you can't say, "24 ETC Source4's" you can however say, " 24 Ellipsoidal lighting units with; a rotating barrel, dichroicly coated reflector with the following properties....."
you get my drift. You can tailor you spec's to get what you want. A lot of times a Theatrical consultant wil just use a cookie cutter because they havea good relationship with so and so, or they've always had good luch with such and such. Remember they work for the people paying the bills, If the people paying the bills ask you to lend a hand and oversee the specifications, then you drive the Consultant batty with demands.

[Footer]

Originally Posted by Van

The above will wind up being one of your biggest headaches. The facility you wind up with is only as good as the budget you have, the Architects, and the Theatre Consultant.
No matter what you ask everyone is going to have a particular area which they will tell you is THE MOST IMPORTANT. When all is said and done, what matters the absolute most is that you have a facility which works for everyone involved, and hopefully inconveniences everyone the same amount. There is no way around "the lowest Bidder" debacle, that is the way government institution are run. The School and the General Contractor are obligated to go with the lowest bid, that is the law in most States. The biggest, most crucial part of the process is writing up the actual "Specifications for Bid" or the peice of paper that goes out to the contractors that tells them what they are going to be offering to work on or supply. If my specs said ; " Contractor to supply 20 lekos, 10 fresnels,12 parcans, 24 1.2k dimmers, a control board with a minimum of 12 channels of control."
then a contractor could deliver 20 360q's , 10 6k hmi Fresnels, 12 par 36's and 2 old EDI racks with an analog controller.
"Everyone would scream But that's not what I wanted!" to which the contractor could respond, " that's what you spec'd"
and he'd be right.
Typically during the spec's process you are not allowed to single out a particular manufacturer, you can't say, "24 ETC Source4's" you can however say, " 24 Ellipsoidal lighting units with; a rotating barrel, dichroicly coated reflector with the following properties....."
you get my drift. You can tailor you spec's to get what you want. A lot of times a Theatrical consultant wil just use a cookie cutter because they havea good relationship with so and so, or they've always had good luch with such and such. Remember they work for the people paying the bills, If the people paying the bills ask you to lend a hand and oversee the specifications, then you drive the Consultant batty with demands.

Also, most manufactures will have "spec sheets" available. You can usually copy those onto your final spec and that will save you SOME grief. Your going to constantly feel like the entire place should burn to the ground, but in the end you will have something.

This is kind of like a pregnancy. Your happy at first, then it starts getting bigger and bigger, you start buying things, and hope for the best. It will open one day, and you will see how it turns out.