New Blackbox!

[misterm]

Hey guys. My principal and administration recently informed me that they are going to conver the JROTC room into a blackbox theatre next year for my program (the decision was made to dispense with the JROTC which was floundering). Right now, my biggest concern right now is lighting. I know how to hang and run lighting, but I've never had to install dimmers or anything before. We can't afford big expensive dimmers, we already have a control console, and we've got an excellent supplier for our instruments. Any suggestions for the dimmer situation? I wouldnt mind using portable ones. Will we need a patch bay and can we run the dimmers staight to the console? Any other suggestions?

[icewolf08]

I assume that if the school is converting the room then there is some construction that is going to go on. Chances are, the room does not have the electrical requirements to run even a handful of portable dimmers so you are most likely going to need to get an electrician in to do some wiring for you. Even the simplest "shoebox" dimmers require a minimum of two circuits each, and I would be willing to be that the room doesn't have more than 4-6 discrete circuits in it. Thus you might be able to put in 3 dimmer packs, which doesn't give you too many options.

In general you should bring in a theatre consultant and get them to work with whoever the school has doing the renovation, this way you will end up with a system that makes sense. There are plenty of budget dimming systems available, however probably all of them will require some serious electrical work in the space. Having a consultant on the job will help you and the school figure out what gear and what work you need.

[Van]

I've got to agree with Alex, again.
Chances are there is Maybe enough power in the room to run a couple of four channel portables < what we call China-packs, here at ART> .
Most local codes are going to require a manual disconnect within close proximity to to any kind of permanent dimmer installation, which means a switch, which means a licensed Electrician.
What kind of conversion? Are they throwing in a pipe grid as well ?

[derekleffew]

What Alex said. And likewise for hanging positions. Ideally you'd want a pipe grid 6-12" below the finished ceiling height with 1.5" I.D. BIP on 4'-0" centers from wall to wall in both directions. This is not a job for a DIY-er, but something that should be designed and approved by a structural engineer and installed by certified ironworkers/riggers.

Back to your original question of dimmers. Does the existing console output DMX? Does it have any sort of ML capability? Can it handle DMX "toys": scrollers, gobo rotators, I-Cues, etc.? Since it seems administration is willing to spend the money, don't limit yourself to what is existing (unless it suits ALL your current and future purposes.

As for portable dimmers, there are a few types:
1. "Shoebox dimmers" are usually four circuit packs. Some have only one NEMA 5-15 (Edison plugs) input, so 1800W spread out among four dimmers, usually no more than 600W (5A fuse) on each. The other variety has two power cords with 5-15 plugs, and has four or six 1000W dimmers, but again the total load on any input circuit cannot exceed 1800W.

2. More expensive, but allowing for a large capacity, The other type of dimmer uses a NEMA L21-20 connector, and thus has 3x20A power input, which allows for 6x1.2Kw or 3x2.4Kw.

[gafftaper]

As always the first question... What's your budget?

Being the teacher here on CB I'm going to assume the opposite of my friends above. I'm going to assume that by "convert to a Blackbox" they mean remove the old furniture, get some chairs out of the district surplus, and you are free to paint the walls black if you can get a crew of students to do it.

If that's the case you need to look at cheap LED Pars... You should be able to power a bunch of them on your limited in room power. (Neo Neon is a popular cheap LED product around here do some searching or send CB member and dealer BillESC a private message). It won't be amazing but you should be able to get enough light to pretend it's a theater on the limited amount of power you have available.

Other than that you need an electrician to bring power to the room. A couple of ETC Smartbars might be a good solution to your dimmer situation.

I'm also assuming it's a really low ceiling. Do you have fixtures? A bunch of 6" fresnels would probably do the trick nicely. Altman Fresnels are cheap but they are a pain to work with over time. If you have the budget I absolutely love my Selecon Rama Fresnels... I think we paid around $225 for them. They are cheaper than Strand fresnels and as nice if not better.

[MikeyHP]

GRRRRRRRRRRR............ My school did the opposite of what your school is doing. We had a really nice and BIG black box type space. It had (and still does have) a huge grid with lots of dimmers, twistloc connectors, and an attached classroom, and a small scene shop. But when the school district added our PAC, they decided that we dident need it anymore. Now it is being wasted as a JROTC room! Also, our PAC has everything except a classroom! We are force to use the blackbox as classroom!!!!

[misterm]

yeah, money is definetely limited here. my estimate of 10 grand for basics was met with raised eyebrows. not to mention, they're wanting me to raise the money when i barely have enough to build a set. i've asked for a grid system, and they said yeah, but i really dont see any of this happening anytime soon even though they said it would for sure over the summer. we will have an electrician come in and do all our electrics. and yes the console is DMX. i learned that the hard way since our current one is ECMux at the old auditorium

[gafftaper]

Under $10k, huh? That's going to be tough. Does that include the cost of the electrician's wages... cause you can spend $10k on just that.

What are the physical dimensions of the space? How high is the ceiling? How large are you imagining the stage area to typically be?

As far as the lighting grid... You'll need professional help to determine how and where the pipes can be hung from the ceiling SAFELY. Don't do this step yourself no matter how tempting... you need both an engineer from the district to consider the weight load on the building and a professional rigger to make sure the hanging connections are safe. You also need them to determine the safe working weight loads for you. Have them install a bunch of connection points to the building around the room and have the rigger teach you how to safely use all the grid hanging hardware then in the future you can move pipes around the room and reconfigure the hardware however you want. As for the hardware itself you can get 1 1/2" Schedule 40 pipe at your local plumbing supply store for around $70 for a 21 foot section. Mine will cut and thread it to whatever length you want for two bucks per cut. There are a variety of products for locking grid pipe together at right angles and at variable angles that run around $10-$25 depending on the device... available at your favorite theater dealer.

No matter how tempting don't rely on the chain and hardware at Home Depot. It is not safe for overhead lifting. Again consult a real rigger and they will hook you up with the good stuff and teach you how to use it safely.

If you have a low ceiling, is there a false ceiling that could be removed to give you more height? There's nothing worse than theater with low ceilings.

It definitely sounds like you don't have enough money to buy any sort of real dimmer racks. You could afford a few basic shoe boxes on your budget.

Do you have any lighting gear already? If you do then using what you have with shoeboxes makes sense. If you don't then you might want to go the Chinese LED route. It'll keep the room cooler, save on electricity... maybe you can get the district to kick in a little more cash if you sell them on how energy efficient the LED's will be and how it will save them on HVAC bill as well.

The more details and data you can give us about what you have, what you hope for, what's already in the room and what isn't in the room, the more ideas we can give you about how to pull this off.

[Van]

Not to rain on anyones parade but even a small classroom sized < let's say 20'x30'> Pipe grid is going to be $7,500 - $10,000. Thisw may be an excellent place for the use of Base and Pipe setups as well as, depending on the configuration of the roof structure, Beam clamps and a few strategeticaly placed dead hung battens.

I always like to say you can turn any place into a theatre, if you're willing to be flexible in production values etc, you can do anything anywhere.

[misterm]

Here's the problem. The JROTC is still in that room until end of year so I'm unable to get in there and get measurements. I've tried to acquire the blueprints from the board office but they haven't exactly been forthcoming with it. The perks are that it used to be a band room so there's plenty of closet space for costumes, props, and storing tools. We currently have a small closet in the chorus room.