Hemp set.

[TecDirTN]

We have a new hemp set at the Bijou in knoxville. All pipes, ropes, head blocks, sheaves and sand bags are brand new. Nice right? Well not so much. I have been dealing with twisting ropes for the past month. What I mean is from the head block to the clew the 5 ropes become one tightly twisted mess. What I am wondering is .....what is the most efficent way to untwist each line? I have tried loosening the clew and physicaly untwisting each line seperaetly but it is time consuming and not 100% effective. If anyone knows a trick or a resource that can point me in the right direction please let me know.

Thanks in advance
Jason Fogarty
Production Manager
Technical Director
The Bijou Theatre
Knoxville Tennessee
www.knoxbijou.com

[ship]

For a start, all rope, cable or wire gets un-wound from the underside of the spool. If installed other than this, you are in for a world of problems.

Can't say that other than having had done some hemp in the log past that I have ever noted much twisting you describe..

I know that one should weight a lineset and let it un-twist but it's unusal that over time linesets should cause problems.

Get a certified rigger and or rigging company to have a look at what's going on. Beyond the pain in the rear, something might be going on that is not safe.

[TecDirTN]

I am a certified rigger, I know whats going on, they used the cheaper style rope instead of the more expensive rope that would not twist up under load. I have already untwisted a couple of the hemp sets but was looking for a more efficent way to do it.

[Van]

Having worked several hemp houses, God I hate them, Your'e statement of hand un-twisting them is the only thing I've ever been able to come up with. It's another one of those save a dollar on the install pay for it in labor down the line things.

Just for clarification.... Why would anybody install an "all new" hemp system. Is it an historic site that requires original equipment ? Or was someone just feeling nostalgic ?

[TecDirTN]

Van to answer your question, The Bijou is almost a hundred years old. It's an old Vaudville house that has been renovated about 10 times. The people paying the bills are not technical theatre "savy" they only see the numbers if you know what I sayin. Also I agree HEMP HOUSES SUCK! but it's more of a love hate relationship! Love em when they work hate them when they don't!

The best solution that I can come up with is to tie a stopper hitch knot just below the head block and tie that off to the rail at the "loading Rail" At this point I am able to remove all the weights and adjustable rope clew. I will then let the ropes untwist them selves and assemble everything. I think I may have to do this several times a month to get it perfect. It's alot better than slicing up the ropes as they untwist at the head block!

I am still open to suggestions but at the moment I think this solution will do.

[kingfisher1]

um last i check the clew it the part of a sail that is opposite the tack. clearly it haas another meaning here. i'm just asking out of curiosity...

also, i assume the rope is not braided, and that's whats causing the twisting.
to me it would seem a lot easier to bite the bullet and spend the money to get some good line in there. Can you use Spectra? (more curiosity here, are fly systems supposed to be static or dynamic?) for the quantities you be buying i'll bet you can get a reduce price.

[ship]

Stretch factor of spectra is killer in a hemp house by way of a number of feet. Contact the place that sold the product and toy with their brains and or contact Bill Sapsis in figuring out what's up.

Still I'm thinking it that you have the weighting and un-twisting solution at hand. This after perhaps the rope was just un-rolled from it's spool in the wrong direction which would than cause a twist in the coil needing to un-coil.

[Van]

Originally Posted by kingfisher1

um last i check the clew it the part of a sail that is opposite the tack. clearly it haas another meaning here. i'm just asking out of curiosity...

also, i assume the rope is not braided, and that's whats causing the twisting.
to me it would seem a lot easier to bite the bullet and spend the money to get some good line in there. Can you use Spectra? (more curiosity here, are fly systems supposed to be static or dynamic?) for the quantities you be buying i'll bet you can get a reduce price.

A clew is a square metal block with ,typically, 4 to 5 "slot's" inside it. In each slot there is <typically> a small rachet device , similar to an ascender, which is spring loaded to allow movement of the clew "up" the rope but not down. A clew ,Typically, has a loop on th bottom side which is what you use to attach sandbags to.

http://www.tiffinscenic.com/html/stage_rigging.html

I did a google search on clew and couldn't find a picture of one. If I can find one in a stagecraft book I'll post it for you. The above link is to a short article whisch discusses some of the coincendence between stage rigging and sailing terminology. When theatres first started to be riggd in what we think of as "traditional" Sailors were tapped to operate them as they had the best command of rope rigging. Terminology therefore made the journey with these early sailors. This is where we get terms like "deck", "Line" , Boom, batten,cove, bay, etc. etc.
it is also where we get the superstition of "no Whistling backstage", on ships orders were often whistled up to the rigging since a whistle carries better than words in a squall. So when Sailors were working as flymen backstage you didn't want to be whistling for fear of winding up with a sand bag accidently dropped on your head, or inadvertantly cueing a scene change.


A Hemp fly system is called a hemp fly system because it is rigged with Hemp. The use of any other kind of rope could have disasterous results. Hemp is much more static than other ropes. In a hemp house, you typically have five hemp ropes running to each batten. It's not like a double or single purchase counterweight system you might be familiar with. On a counterweight system your hemp rope, or spectra rope, is only moving the arbor up and down and the arbor is connectedd to the batten by 5 - 6 wire ropes or cables. Since you keep the arbor balanced with the load the rope doesn't really do any lifting, it only tilts the balance enough for the arbors wieght to kick in, or be over come. The cables on a counterweight system are pre-set to desired lengths and is necessary you can lengthen or shorten them by means of the toggle-bolt located on top of the arbor or at the connectoin to the batten. On a hemp system each rope runs to the batten individually. Imagine trying to pull evenly on all 5 ropes at the same time. the clew helps distribute the down force of one rope to all the other ropes on a given lineset < lineset that's where where the name comes from, a set of lines for each batten > to all of the ropes.
On a Hemp system the counter weights are sandbags suspended from each line or lineset either by the clew or a sunday < I really want to know where the rigging term "sunday" comes from. if anybody knows let me know> and therefore each hemp rope is exposed to much more stress than on a counterweight system. Which is why it needs to be hemp not a synthetic.

Sorry for the punctuation and capitalization, I'm not use to my wifes laptop.

Hope that answers some questions and inspires you to do some more reseach about the history of theatre. It's a really fascinating story.

[kingfisher1]

a sunday was a knot, not sure what else its called, i'll have to ask that to the internation guild a knot tyers....
it got it name because it helped keep batten from slipping betweent eh sunday matinee and the next show (that could be total BS....i though i read that somewhere.)

Also, i have never ever ever ever heard that hemp has less stretch then spectra. spectra however is a lot more expensive, and was invented a wee bit later then hemp...but (under load) streches alot less.
again i could be absolutly making up this number, but i thought that braided line has up to 85% less streach then any three strand.
p.s. thanks for the reply now i have a clew....hahahaha jk

[ship]

You are right, I was thinking back to spectrum rope I once installed in a 27' x 46' high Hemp house. Stretch on it was amazing. It's load rating was much more than that of spectrum which is why I did not choose it. Spectra was rated better or the same as manilla, spectrum didn't as memory holds - like 10 years ago the last time I specified such a thing, didn't have the load rating sufficient but could potentially have.

PS. sorry if I insulted or incinuated any lack of rigging cert or ability to TecDirTN, no offense was meant, it was a general warning or advice.

Ever figure out about the twist?