ETC Prodigy Rigging System Teaser

[dvsDave]

See video teaser here

We got to go to the press demo tonight. The rigging system is amazing. Take a look at http://www.etcrigging.com and let me know what questions you have. I have some answers already, let's see what else you can come up with! We'll be shooting a private demo tomorrow morning at 8am. (We'll be shooting live and with a high-def camera)

[MNicolai]

Q1: I noticed the load cell description on their site. With unexpected shifts in loads, it automatically kills the lifting mechanism, primarily to prevent accidents and mishaps. How does that differentiate between accidents and intentions? If a hanging light snags a curtain on the way up, it's meant to stop the system before it tears the curtain or causes far more serious problems, but what if I'm hanging something low to the ground that adds a heavy load when it goes up? Basically, it senses an anomaly, then what?

Q2: Is this intended to be a only replacement for electric winches controlling electrics and heavy, static loads, such as concert shell systems, or is this intended to replace regular counterweight sets as well? (30fpm doesn't look promising for replacing counterweight sets, or competing with JR Clancy's faster 20-180fpm models)

Q3: The cable management system appears to work for up to 48-circuits according to their webpage. What happens if I want more than that on an electric?

Q4: How often do these systems need to be maintained, and what kind of maintenance is necessary?

Q5: What is the cost/benefit analysis of installing this versus a conventional install? (For the purpose of this conversation, we'll consider a conventional install to include 24 counterweight sets and 8 winch sets, four of which require power distribution to them)

Q6: Where the ____ was this product when we did our install a year ago? Especially the rigging for the house lighting!

[DavidNorth]

Mike,

I can answer some of your questions....

A1: The load cell supports a profile function to record weight per height. So for your example, best described as a pooled curtain on the floor before it's raised, it handled quite easily by the load profile feature.

A2: We are intending this to be primarily for stage electrics and houselights. However, the non-electric fixed-speed hoist can be very useful for curtains, screens and orchestra shells, for example. I would not use this for scenery as 30fpm could make for some long scene changes.

A3: Our limit is 48 circuits on an electric. Now these are 48 unique circuits which means you can have many outlets but are limited to 48-20A circuits. With a length limit of 66' and travel limit of 50', we think 48 circuits will work for most of those applications.

A4: The control station screen found in the QuickTouch products will tell you at 11 months that you will need a yearly inspection soon. Installers are trained on how to perform this safety and maintenance service work and report their findings electronically back to ETC for record keeping. In addition, the control system keeps a copy of the service visit and the activities that were completed. In order to maintain the 3 year warranty, the yearly service must be performed. One of the requirements in the new ESTA rigging guideleines will be a yearly inspection which we all agree should done. Now we just have to educate the owners.....

A5: Ok, so I don't really have an answer here with dollars on it. What I do think you need to keep in mind, though, is the cost benefit analysis of the usability, safety, liability and insurance required to keep a hoist system running with students versus a counterweight system.

A6: Where was it? Well, it was here, under development for the last number of years and is indeed not last you'll hear from us in the area of rigging. Sorry we couldn't be there when you needed us for your last venue.....we'll be there for your next one.

Let me know if you have additional questions.

David

[chrispo86]

I'm curious, as I haven't caught this mentioned anywhere yet, what kind of a price tag are we looking at? Obviously it will vary from theater to theater, but as soon as I showed this system to the Technical Director at the high school I consult at, the question immediately was, "Well, what's their definition of 'affordable'?" It's something I'd love to get, because working with the ladders is both a pain and not particularly safe when there's kids running around, but as with most schools, there's pretty much zero budget to put towards any kind of new equipment.

Thanks!

[derekleffew]

...It's something I'd love to get, because working with the ladders is both a pain and not particularly safe when there's kids running around, ...

While this may be a great system, I don't see how it's going to eliminate ladders/lifts. (...Perhaps if ETC included free Revolutions with every purchase.)

(Referencing another system):

Oh, and I really like West Point's FOH lighting position. Two pipes with 16 S4's on each. The only problem is they are on motors which brings them down to seat level for color and relamping But focusing is bit*h.

[chrispo86]

While this may be a great system, I don't see how it's going to eliminate ladders/lifts. (...Perhaps if ETC included free Revolutions with every purchase.)

(Referencing another system):

Wouldn't that be nice, free Revolutions for everyone!

Anyway, `tis true, but at the moment, we have extremely limited access to a lift, and our FOH overhead lights are quite literally inaccessible because the only way to get to them is with the lift. Because of this, they get touched maybe once every 2-3 years. That's including if a lamp goes, and forget about focusing them, period... (Part of it is administration doesn't want students on the lift, the other part is that the lift is usually not in the building, and getting maintenance to bring it there is quite a feat in itself...)

That said, any access would be nicer than what I have right now. At least I could replace a blown lamp or put some colors up there on occasion.

That and I wouldn't mind putting the curtains on this kind of setup.

[sk8rsdad]

While this may be a great system, I don't see how it's going to eliminate ladders/lifts. (...Perhaps if ETC included free Revolutions with every purchase.)

It won't eliminate ladders and lifts, but it greatly reduces the need for them. My venue has a similar system (curse you, ETC, for being late to the party!!!) and we can usually get away with bounce focusing from the deck. The technique is to do a best guess focus during the hang, then haul the batten up to to trim height and see how bad the guess was. Lower it to a good working height and make adjustments. I can usually zero in the stock wash in one bounce.

We still need to use the lifts and/or ladder for finicky things, but even then we can often leave the lifts stowed and bounce trim using a 12' ladder.

I am sure a large venue that has professional LDs, MEs, and the like would cringe at working this way, but in the smaller venues with jack-of-all-trades technical people (the target market for this product) it works well.

If ETC were to stencil a protractor on the yoke near the pan and tilt adjustments for their lighting instruments I suspect it would be a popular feature with the venues that are buying Prodigy. I know I would use it.

[derekleffew]

...If ETC were to stencil a protractor on the yoke near the pan and tilt adjustments for their lighting instruments I suspect it would be a popular feature with the venues that are buying Prodigy. I know I would use it.

The SLs I used a few weeks ago had this, but I didn't understand it. Have you seen the article cited in the glossary definition for bounce focus?

[sk8rsdad]

The SLs I used a few weeks ago had this, but I didn't understand it. Have you seen the article cited in the glossary definition for bounce focus?

I saw the article after I posted and the phrase became an active link in my response.

If you know the distance in 3 dimensions from the focus point to the instrument then you can set your angles based on the horizontal and vertical right triangles those distances define. For all instruments on a given batten, the height is constant for a given type of fixture. For a wash, the distance upstage or downstage is generally constant if you are using any of the usual zone methods. The only variable then becomes the distance along the batten from the focus point. All our battens have measuring tape tape on the upstage side so figuring out the pan and tilt angles is basic trigonometry.

Perhaps more useful is the ability to say to somebody, "tilt that one down 5 degrees and a couple of degrees stage left" and them having a guide instead of guesstimating how much that is.

From the Museum of Useful Things:

[MNicolai]

Actually, Dave, I do have another question. What is the solution if I want to add additional wiring into connector strips on a Prodigy system electric? My installer said that usually DMX just tags along with the power cables for the cable management, but what if also wanted some CAT5e and a couple runs of speaker cable. Would they be able to be incorporated into the cable management system or would they have to have an additional rig of pulleys and such not to create some makeshift cable management.

[gafftaper]

If ETC were to stencil a protractor on the yoke near the pan and tilt adjustments for their lighting instruments I suspect it would be a popular feature with the venues that are buying Prodigy. I know I would use it.

Some Selecons have this feature. It works quite well.

[ruinexplorer]

Actually, Dave, I do have another question. What is the solution if I want to add additional wiring into connector strips on a Prodigy system electric? My installer said that usually DMX just tags along with the power cables for the cable management, but what if also wanted some CAT5e and a couple runs of speaker cable. Would they be able to be incorporated into the cable management system or would they have to have an additional rig of pulleys and such not to create some makeshift cable management.

Ack! I would suggest asking if they can add a second cable management solution for your audio and other data lines. Why would you want to add noise to your system if you could potentially avoid it? DMX would be a great thing to have tagging along though.

[DavidNorth]

Mike,

Each flat cable in the Prodigy Cable Management system contains 13-12 AWG conductors and a CAT5e cable. This allows for 6 circuits at 20A and a DMX or ENET run on a flat cable, with a maximum of 4 flat cables per end.

A couple of people have asked about ancillary cable options. I would think it would be very difficult with the way the flat cable is managed, but we're not done yet so let's see what we can come up with.

David

[chrispo86]

I know I inadvertently started all the banter going on about bounce focusing and whatnot, but I was actually curious as to what kind of a price point we're looking at... (just ballpark. As I said, I realize it will differ from setup to setup)

[Froggy]

So what I'm not understanding is whether a separate circuit raceway must be installed into the hoist system, or does the electrics version of the Prodigy come with the circuit raceway and junction box pre-installed? Also, if someone has a general price point on these things, it would be much appreciated...

[MNicolai]

So what I'm not understanding is whether a separate circuit raceway must be installed into the hoist system, or does the electrics version of the Prodigy come with the circuit raceway and junction box pre-installed? Also, if someone has a general price point on these things, it would be much appreciated...

An electrician would have to pipe conduits from the dimming systems over to terminal blocks at the compression tube. Then the built-in cable management system gets the circuits down to the pipe and terminates automatically into the connector strips. On the datasheets, you'll see something mounted above the batten. That serves as both the connector strip and the flat cable cradle for the cable management system, also it's difficult to discern from that view.

Sorry, no general price point is available. Rigging is a very custom product. The materials that the manufacturer provides to the installer will be very different in each situation. More variable yet are the factors that the installer has to take into account to get your project in the air. This includes labor, lift rentals, transporting equipment, tools, materials and workers. Ensuring that the structure can support the added rigging loads and getting electrical to the powerheads and cable management systems are especially big factors that will be unique to each venue.