Results 1 to 7 of 7
The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck! is being discussed in the ControlBooth LDI 2010 forum; Speaker: Rob Halliday I'm post live from my phone with key thoughts from the lecture. Also known as the second ...

  1. #1
    Senior Team gafftaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Occupation
    Got one for me?
    Posts
    9,655
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 591 Times in 441 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7

    Default The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    Speaker: Rob Halliday

    I'm post live from my phone with key thoughts from the lecture.

    Also known as the second annual Rob Halliday rant on why modern consoles are such a pain.

    Why do consoles need to be so complicated? Why can't a console be easy enough for a designer to just create? Why can't you "play" a console any more? Busking used to be an interactive art. Memory consoles have given us the ability to duplicate a look perfectly but in the process they have gotten extremely complicated. Art has been replaced with logic.

    Rob likes the modular approach of consoles like the Galaxy from 1980. Today we have the option of fader wings, but that's about it. Back then there was a wide variety of optional control surface options.

    The original Light Palette was a huge breakthrough in control using text. The desk was controlled the way designers think. Our modern conventional consoles still use essentially the same approach. Note the EOS looks quite a bit like the original light pallet.

    Moving light consoles came along and they handle a lot of information well. They were good at controlling a lot of fixtures.

    Light Moves in 1989 essentially had RDM capabilities. It used degrees of movement. It spoke in terms of color.

    The Hog was a revolution. "The GrandMA was like the Whole Hog, but in German. The GrandMA 2 is like the GrandMA but in black." Ma had a lot of forward thinking. They planned years ahead for the needs of future technology.

    If you watch a concert, why do the sound guys dance and play along while lighting guys just press a button? What happens if the music changes? He just presses go as usual.

    Why is it that all modern consoles are sort of the same?

    Why can't I make adjustments to multiple lights simultaneously? I.e
    I can't take control of tow fixtures and make them do different things and tweak simultaneously.

    What's the difference between GrandMA, EOS and Strand Light Palette today?
    Palette is a Prius with cool tech inside but it looks like crap and no one really likes to drive it.
    The Grandma looks like a high performance race car but you have to be a professional driver. If you make the slightest mistake you crash and burn. EOS is a practical car that your parents buy. It doesn't look amazing but it gets the job done.

    Why are consoles so hard to read at a distance?

    Why can't we have multi-touch touch screens?

    Why all the crazy bright colors when we work in dark rooms?

    There are so many ways that consoles are actually going backwards because intuitive interaction is continually being replaced with more complicated features.

    Really Good things:
    WYSIWYG
    Virtual magic sheets...cool but problems with implementation
    The ability to custom label buttons... one even allows symbols. And shapes
    Pixel Mapping in the GrandMA.
    Light Factory can track your power consumption and will back off the master when you start pushing you Max load.


  2. #2
    Senior Team  Premium Member 
    Footer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Occupation
    Production Coordinator
    Posts
    7,678
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 546 Times in 440 Posts

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    I am surprised the Jands vista did not make the list. It is really the only console out there that broke the bounds of what a console is. Love it or hate it, it is very different.

    Being able to move and work with multiple fixtures is another thing all together. That really brings up the idea of how we program shows. The only real way to pull that off is if the next generation of consoles is a 36"x24" touch screen that we can just make whatever we want. Want 300 encoders?, go for it!

    The whole "why is it that LD's don't move during shows.." Some do. I personally do when I am busking shows. However, many tours out there are completly canned or nearly canned. The person operating the console is the Head Elec and the designer is long gone. The designer build a cue stack for each song, put each stack on a playback, and left. They gave the kid running it a few playbacks to throw something special in such as blinders and such but thats it. Especially in the large production rock show, it is nearly impossible to traditionally busk that stuff. Those shows that used to be sporatic are now extremly canned. Automation, pyro, audio, rigging, and lighting all are tied together so the idea of busking is out the window. Once again, you might have some blinders you can throw up if need by but all in all you have to stick to the plan. Audio is its own world that does not impact the other worlds. When you are mixing FOH or monitors you are another instrument. You have to be into the music and into the show to get a good show (even if your out with the doodlebops).
    Kyle Van Sandt
    Production Coordinator
    The Egg
    Van Sandt Designs

    "Pull rope, push box, push button, get a banana."

  3. #3
    Senior Team  Premium Member 
    derekleffew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Occupation
    Academician/Pedantist
    Posts
    5,517
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 963 Times in 786 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Footer View Post
    I am surprised the Jands vista did not make the list. It is really the only console out there that broke the bounds of what a console is. Love it or hate it, it is very different. ...
    Rob talked at length about the Jands Vista, both positives and negatives. I think he nailed it when he said, "If you are a designer/programmer/operator, you'll love it. If however, you're a designer trying to communicate to the person behind the console, or are the one behind the console interpreting instructions from another, not so much."

    He also talked briefly on preset vs. move fade philosophies, but didn't use those exact terms. Americans are more confortable with tracking desks, since they grew out of piano boards, whereas the Brits prefer "state" consoles. Put another way" Q2 is THE LOOK onstage right now, whereas Americans think of Q2 as the transition between Q1 and what's on stage. All in all an informative session, but nothing we haven't discussed at length here on CB.

    Since I feel he deserves the plug: Rob Halliday : Lighting Design .
    Good authors too who once knew better words, Now only use four letter words, Writing prose.

  4. #4
    Senior Team  Premium Member 
    Footer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Occupation
    Production Coordinator
    Posts
    7,678
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 546 Times in 440 Posts

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    Quote Originally Posted by derekleffew View Post

    He also talked briefly on preset vs. move fade philosophies, but didn't use those exact terms. Americans are more confortable with tracking desks, since they grew out of piano boards, whereas the Brits prefer "state" consoles. Put another way" Q2 is THE LOOK onstage right now, whereas Americans think of Q2 as the transition between Q1 and what's on stage. All in all an informative session, but nothing we haven't discussed at length here on CB.

    Since I feel he deserves the plug: Rob Halliday : Lighting Design .
    Ironic with Strand being a British brand...
    Last edited by Footer; October 21st, 2010 at 11:19 PM.
    Kyle Van Sandt
    Production Coordinator
    The Egg
    Van Sandt Designs

    "Pull rope, push box, push button, get a banana."

  5. #5
    Senior Team gafftaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Occupation
    Got one for me?
    Posts
    9,655
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 591 Times in 441 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Thread Starter

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    I think the most interesting part of the session is that his dream console would essentially make his career as a programmer obsolete (note he is also a respected designer). It also seems like the key problem he has is that the many attributes of modern moving lights require consoles to be more complex to handle them. If you get rid of the moving lights and LED's you can easily go back to the more artistic consoles. But I don't hear anyone clamoring for that.


  6. #6


    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Occupation
    President/Owner
    Posts
    50
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    Warning RANT!!!
    This is what I hate about designer's, especially of a "certain age". I having started in the late 80's myself and having run the consoles mentioned as well, reply with the following..
    1. LEARN! Designers, like other artists of a technical nature, for example scenic designers, need to keep up with modern technology. It's part of their job. How many scenic designers today draft with thier pencils and protractors... Lighting designers need to know the current consoles and software that is prevelent in their field of work, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!! A designer, IMHO, doesn't need to be the fastest programmer in the world, but I do expect them be be able to run up a fader if I have to go to the bathroom.
    2. LAZY! Please keep me from killing designers who have huge degrees from certain Ivy League universities not being able to read and/or generate their own paperwork. I know they teach you at Yale that to be an LD is to be surrounded by undergrads who are getting your coffee, filling out your Lightwright, and reminding you what the funny symbols on your own plot mean.
    3. INTELLGENCE! Yes, consoles these days are super complicated. But I think you'll find that on 90% of them have a numerical keypad (just like your macbook, buddy..) and when you type 41 at full, fixture/channel 41 will become significatly brighter. Also if you're a super special LD most manufacters will be happy to lend you one to learn your trade.. If I was a Master Carpenter if someone came up with a laser guided saw and I was going to use one on my next show, i'd crack open the manual.
    4. AUDIO! If LD's think whine about their console is "too complicated" try running a MIDAS XL8 (http://www.midasconsoles.com/images/...3-06-large.jpg) Please don't the the audio guys out-pace us as industry professionals....whom can we make fun of then?
    5. The business is my business. I program,media serve,visualize,network,clone, generate content,patch,busk, and yes.... I dance a bit when I run a concert! (sometimes even on a general session...cause I'm just crazy like that) I do all of these things because I consider it to part of MY JOB!!!

    PS:We have multi touch screens (GM2, 676..)

    OK, whew...off soapbox.

    Axis deBruyn
    Lighting Director/Designer..
    Google me if you feel the need
    Last edited by Footer; October 23rd, 2010 at 12:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Team  Premium Member 
    Footer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Occupation
    Production Coordinator
    Posts
    7,678
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 546 Times in 440 Posts

    Default Re: The future of console design a.k.a. why modern consoles suck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axislights View Post
    How many scenic designers today draft with thier pencils and protractors...
    Most actually. Very few scenic designers that I work with both around here and at the regional level draft on a computer. Its going to be many many years before that changes if ever. I'm OK with it because I feel that you get a bit better flow drafting at a table for scenic work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axislights View Post
    2. LAZY! Please keep me from killing designers who have huge degrees from certain Ivy League universities not being able to read and/or generate their own paperwork. I know they teach you at Yale that to be an LD is to be surrounded by undergrads who are getting your coffee, filling out your Lightwright, and reminding you what the funny symbols on your own plot mean.
    Before we throw Yalies under the bus, they don't have an undergrad program, you have to get your own coffee.


    Otherwise, I fully agree.
    Kyle Van Sandt
    Production Coordinator
    The Egg
    Van Sandt Designs

    "Pull rope, push box, push button, get a banana."

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •