LDI Day 1

[dvsDave]

Arrived early, saw a demo of the ETC LED Source4. Not sure how much I can reveal yet, but let's just say its amazing.

Finally on the show floor. Stay tuned! I'll be posting updates throughout the day!

[Kelite]

Watch the water on level two, Dave!

[chausman]

You could do a google hangout from LDI!

[derekleffew]

Dave, get over to the GAM booth and give us a report on the Plexus lighting software. Ask them what the h were they thinking, naming something Plexus?

[gafftaper]

Hey Dave try to get some photometric data on that S4 LED.

Dave, get over to the GAM booth and... Ask them what the h were they thinking, naming something Plexus?

Perhaps the guy on the left works for GAM now... or was that You Derek?
Plexuscover.jpg

[dvsDave]

Will get over to the GAM booth soon. Just did a video with Enttec, their new DMX Pro software is pretty awesome.

BTW, Doug Fleenor's new DMX toy is a DMX chainsaw. That's right, I said chainsaw.

So, here's the skinny on the new LED Source4s.

There are three. A tungsten output, a a daylight, and a Lustr. That's right, a full color LED Source4.

The optics are really incredible and the lumens per watt blows every other LED leko fixture out of the water.

They wouldn't let me take pictures as the fixtures are still prototypes.

Rumor is (and this is not directly from etc) that we could see these potentially as early as march, but none of that is confirmed.

Oh, and they are incredibly quiet, unbelievably quiet. I had to put my hand up to the fixture to even tell if the fan was running.




-Sent from my HP Touchpad

[derekleffew]

...They wouldn't let me take pictures as the fixtures are still prototypes. ...

Understandable. But is it bigger than a breadbox? Does it use standard/EDLT Source Four lens tubes? Are the gobo slot and color frame a standard size? Does it have a power pass-thru?

[Footer]

Understandable. But is it bigger than a breadbox? Does it use standard/EDLT Source Four lens tubes? Are the gobo slot and color frame a standard size? Does it have a power pass-thru?

And did they turn it on side by side w/ a standard S4 lamped at 750w?

[dvsDave]

And did they turn it on side by side w/ a standard S4 lamped at 750w?

Yes they turned on the tungsten and put it next to a standard S4. Results were amazingly close. The engine looks a bit bigger than a standard S4 and it does have a housing underneath. Yes, you can daisychain the power, up to @10 units.


-Sent from my HP Touchpad

[Kelite]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.....


Thanks Dave!

[dramatech]

Gear source booth was also showing an LED back for the source 4. It is still in development, but looked to have some serious promise. The ones demo'd, were only 100 watt and were in 6000K and 2900K. They have a 250 watt source of LEDs that they are going to try next. Right now the prototype uses the Pulse width Modulation scheme for dimming and at the very low levels you can see a little flickering that goes away when it hits the chosen level. They are working on a D/A to convertor, that would control the dimming through current changing. The cool thing is that when not using the source 4 shutter assembly and lens tube there is a Fresnel lens and collapsing type girls scout cup assembly.
This thing is a bit from the final platform, but shows some real promise. Especially considering that it is being developed by one man, the owner of gears source, and doesn't have the large engineering resources of ETC.
Lightronics was also showing a version of their ETC knock-off with LED illumination. They achieved the color with three glass filters that moved into position. It would be ok for a small "Rock band", but isn't going to provide and real competition with either the ETC or Gear Source LED units.

The whole show was a bit smaller than I remember ones in the past, but I saw pretty much everything that I wanted. Of course lots of improvements of products released a few years ago, but other than the prototype LED ellipsoidals, there wasn't anything that spectacular. Don't let me make it sound negative, because it is always very informative to see what is happening in the industry.
One of my observations, is that Elation, is becoming more and more in the professional end of the spectrum, and less and less in the DJ market, that they started out in.
Most all of the lighting boards shown were of an earlier release. The GIO being the exception, but that is really just a scaled down EOS. I really liked the Enntec laptop software with it's dongle. It isn't Magic-Q, but is a very nice simple program similar to smaller boards such as NSI, Lightronics and some of the chinese units. It would be great for the small facility that doesn't have many moving lights and just wants to do small shows. The price is $ 279 for the software and the dongle, give or take a few bucks. (We old people have memory problems).
Lot's of choices for followspots were shown at several booths. Most have been seen before, but it is fun to compare when they are close together. My choice would probably be something from Robert Juliat. Strong had their most recent version of the Gadiator. The thing is about the size of a tractor-trailer.
I am sure their will be many more behind me with more info and different opinions, so stay tuned.

Tom Johnson

[derekleffew]

Gear source booth was also showing an LED back for the source 4. It is still in development, but looked to have some serious promise. The ones demo'd, were only 100 watt and were in 6000K and 2900K. They have a 250 watt source of LEDs that they are going to try next. Right now the prototype uses the Pulse width Modulation scheme for dimming and at the very low levels you can see a little flickering that goes away when it hits the chosen level. They are working on a D/A to convertor, that would control the dimming through current changing. The cool thing is that when not using the source 4 shutter assembly and lens tube there is a Fresnel lens and collapsing type girls scout cup assembly.
This thing is a bit from the final platform, but shows some real promise. Especially considering that it is being developed by one man, the owner of gears source, and doesn't have the large engineering resources of ETC. ...

Tom, I believe that is actually the Coemar Reflection LEDko which we discussed here: Coemar's new release Reflection LEDko .
Press release: LEDSource: LED SOURCE® CONTINUES TO GROW PARTNERSHIP WITH COEMAR

[derekleffew]

Anyone know what the Altman Phoenix is about?

[dvsDave]

Hey Tom, I think you were looking at the DMXIS software, I got a long video demo of their new software, the DMX PRO software, which has an introductory price of $299. Very nice.

I've got a bunch of video to upload, but I don't have the tools to edit it here. I'll get it edited and cleaned up and posted when I get back.

Got to see the new Apollo Wrenchmate in it's final form, a single integrated C wrench with essentially a megawrench on the other end.

wrenchmate.jpg

[dvsDave]

The DMX Chainsaw with it's brilliantly demented creator!

[derekleffew]

The DMX Chainsaw with its brilliantly demented creator!

A whole new meaning to the (almost always) erroneous phrase, "DMX self-terminating"!

Is it wrong of me to want to see the DMX chainsaw cut a Right Arm?

[Beans45601]

Is it wrong of me to want to see the DMX chainsaw cut a Right Arm?

I thought for sure you were going to say you wanted to see a chainsaw on a right arm.

[gafftaper]

Hey Tom, I think you were looking at the DMXIS software, I got a long video demo of their new software, the DMX PRO software, which has an introductory price of $299. Very nice.

Got to see the new Apollo Wrenchmate in it's final form, a single integrated C wrench with essentially a megawrench on the other end.

wrenchmate.jpg

Yeah we shot video of the DMXIS last year and it really is a great alternative to MagicQ. MagicQ is much more powerful than DMXIS but the learning curve is REALLY steep and 99% of the features are not going to be used by someone trying to build a lighting system on the cheap. People who really need those features are going to be buying the rest of the system (which also makes them a lot more manageable). DMXIS on the other hand is more of a simple DJ software. It doesn't have the power of MagicQ but it's also way easier to work with. If all you want is to program a simple conventional cue stack or some submasters, and your budget is tiny. DMXIS is probably a better choice than MagicQ (the $250-ish price includes the usb/dmx dongle). It would be great for small churches, small community theaters, and anyone trying to throw together a programmable dmx console for $250 and a used PC.

I'm looking forward to learning more about DMXpro.

Congratulations to Apollo and Kelite. That's an excellent looking design idea.

...as for the DMX chainsaw. I'm a little worried about Dr. DMX. Perhaps he Has been sniffing a little too much of the old soldering smoke.

I thought for sure you were going to say you wanted to see a chainsaw on a right arm.

Now THAT is an awesome idea. Kelite and Jfleenor... two of my favorite people working for two of our favorite companies... please make it happen! I bet SteveTerry could arrange for a Gio to control it. The perfect demo!

[ruinexplorer]

Yes they turned on the tungsten and put it next to a standard S4. Results were amazingly close. The engine looks a bit bigger than a standard S4 and it does have a housing underneath. Yes, you can daisychain the power, up to @10 units.

OK, but what did they shine the two sources on? Was it just a white fabric, the airwall, or a collection of various covered fabrics? The biggest drawback to LED point sources has been the limited wavelengths of the color spectrum, making it difficult to light people. It would also be nice to see how a camera sees the light (which is why I like going to NAB or InfoComm). For more information on what I mean about that, check out this month's issue of Protocol starting on page 16.

[derekleffew]

...The biggest drawback to LED point sources has been the limited wavelengths of the color spectrum, making it difficult to light people. It would also be nice to see how a camera sees the light (which is why I like going to NAB or InfoComm). ...

I thought most of this was addressed/discussed here:

...It was as if the entire room had been shangaied -- one moment everyone was waiting to get up and leave less anyone have additional questions for Fred about ETC; the next moment we're staring at LED Source Fours that have probably been pointing at Fred and turned on for the entire presentation without any of the CUE attendees knowing it.
...
As Fred described in his own words, this is the the Holy Grail of lighting products. I think everyone in the room today would agree with that statement -- if he hadn't revealed that the fixtures pointed at him weren't incandescents, nobody would've been the wiser: intensity, color quality, beam quality -- nothing was a giveaway that the Source Fours had LED sources instead of tungsten sources.
...

[dramatech]

Tom, I believe that is actually the Coemar Reflection LEDko which we discussed here: Coemar's new release Reflection LEDko .
Press release: LEDSource: LED SOURCE® CONTINUES TO GROW PARTNERSHIP WITH COEMAR

Nope!! Derek, I saw that one too. Very impressive and a lot further along the deliverable product.
The one at Gear Source, (the folks that make the megaclamp and all of those geat rigging fixtures) has a heat sink that looks like it came from "Starwars" or some sort of nuclear reactor. A lighting instrument is certainly something you would not expect from a machine shop that builds some of the best rigging materials. I had a long talk with the owner about the design and the technical aspects of the project. When I questioned why a lighting instrument from his company, he pointed out to me that he has an electrical engineering degree, that he has never really used to his satisfaction. He also mentioned that he was delayed a good deal in the development, because he had employed some consultants. He basically dismissed their advice after the instrument didn't work. So he decided to do it on his own.
I don't know that it will be the answer or do a better job than the other efforts for LED ellipsoidals, but I sure like his attitude and drive, and for what I saw so far, I like his product.

Tom Johnson

[dramatech]

Got to see the new Apollo Wrenchmate in it's final form, a single integrated C wrench with essentially a megawrench on the other end.

wrenchmate.jpg

I spent quite a while at the Apollo booth and saw the new megawrench. It is really nice and looks to be exceptional quality. Since I have every focus tool that I am aware of, I suppose I will have to get one of those as well, although it is going to have to really impress me to replace my "Flat focus tool".
I also had a nice conversation about the Right arms. I have two of the older models and was giving feedback and receiving new info about the newer models. One of the two they were showing had a half cheesboro type clamp, that I really liked a lot better than the regular clamp with a leadscrew. I am gong to have to give a serious look at replacing my two.

One other thing that I noticed at LDI, but not the Apollo booth, was a super small Chroma Q scroller on the front of a Source 4, as part of an autoyoke. It was of course at the City theatrical booth. The interesting thing is that I didn't see that same scroller at the Chroma Q display. I have one autoyoke that I have a Coloram 4" scroller mounted on, and the Chroma Q that I saw was considerably smaller.

From several in depth conversations that I had, a number of American owned companies that were having products made in China to their specs, have now started building them in house in the US. Info on why was held a little close to the chest, but it seemed to be a combination of quality, price of shipping and labor cost increases, and convenience of control. I won't mention the companies, as the conversations were held in confidentiality and not public announcements. Never the less, it shows some shifting trends.

Tom Johnson

[derekleffew]

...The one at Gear Source, (the folks that make the megaclamp and all of those geat rigging fixtures)...

The manufacturer of the Mega-Clamp and Mega-Claw is The Light Source. (Very nice company biography article at PLSN | The Light Source Moves Into LEDs , but doesn't mention a Source Four retrofit, although we've been suggesting that here for years.)

GearSource/LED Source is the North American distributor for Coemar products. The press release at LEDSource: LED SOURCE® CONTINUES TO GROW PARTNERSHIP WITH COEMAR is a little unclear, to me at least.

Moving forward, GearSource will focus on selling used products and entertainment equipment and will no longer supply Coemar’s automated lighting products while LED Source will continue offering Coemar’s extensive line of LED technology on a N American Exclusive basis.

So who is to handle Coemar's non-LED products?

-----

I spent quite a while at the Apollo booth and saw the new megawrench. ...

Again, Mega-Combo Wrench is a product from The Light Source. Apollo's is called the WrenchMate (link to old version).

Not picking on you Tom; just tryin' to keep the names accurate to lessen confusion, for myself and our readers.
-----
Nothing about the Altman Phoenix? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[dramatech]

The manufacturer of the Mega-Clamp and Mega-Claw is The Light Source. (Very nice company biography article at PLSN | The Light Source Moves Into LEDs , but doesn't mention a Source Four retrofit, although we've been suggesting that here for years.)

GearSource/LED Source is the North American distributor for Coemar products. The press release at LEDSource: LED SOURCE® CONTINUES TO GROW PARTNERSHIP WITH COEMAR is a little unclear, to me at least.
So who is to handle Coemar's non-LED products?

Again, Mega-Combo Wrench is a product from The Light Source. Apollo's is called the WrenchMate (link to old version).

Not picking on you Tom; just tryin' to keep the names accurate to lessen confusion, for myself and our readers.
-----
Nothing about the Altman Phoenix? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You are correct and correct. The LED development for the source 4 that I saw, was in fact the Light source the manufacture of the megaclamp and not gear source, but I also saw one there it that is where I saw the Coemer if in fact that was the name of the booth or distributor. I was much more interested in the instrument than the sales of it. You will have to forgive me, I have never been real good at remembering specifics on names. (It comes from having my 70th birthday earlier this year).
Yes I thought that the name of the wrench seemed strange having mega in it. It was the wrench at Apollo that I saw. Again, I didn't pay real close attention to the name. I simply quoted Dave in post #14 of this thread where he misnamed it, but showed the correct picture. I therefore am sharing the blame with him.

Tom ( the not to good at names) Johnson

[dramatech]

I didn''t pay real close attention to the name. I simply quoted Dave in post #14 of this thread where he misnamed it, but showed the correct picture. I therefore am sharing the blame with him.

I realize after further viewing of Dave's post, that he did have the name correct and that he was comparing one end of the wrench to the megawrench. Sorry about all of my mistakes. I am now going to go hide in shame and quit posting.

Tom Johnson

[ScottT]

I realize after further viewing of Dave's post, that he did have the name correct and that he was comparing one end of the wrench to the megawrench. Sorry about all of my mistakes. I am now going to go hide in shame and quit posting.

If I did that every time I said something stupid, well I wouldn't be here. Keep on posting!

[derekleffew]

Some posts from this thread have been moved to LDI Day 2 .

We can continue discussing Tom's senility, Derek's incontinence incompetence, and others' SDSs (self degradation syndromes) here.

[ruinexplorer]

I thought most of this was addressed/discussed here:

Sorry, since you don't have which thread MNicolai was discussing that, could you source it so I could read his whole post?

[Chris15]

Sorry, since you don't have which thread MNicolai was discussing that, could you source it so I could read his whole post?

Just click the little arrow after "originally posted by..." to go to the original post...

[ruinexplorer]

Good to know. Since I have my brightness level turned all the way down and neutral density over the screen, that was all but invisible. That's what I get for checking CB at work.

[JChenault]

Dave, get over to the GAM booth and give us a report on the Plexus lighting software. Ask them what the h were they thinking, naming something Plexus?

It's Not My Fault !!!

I voted against it - if I had realized there was an old EC product by that name, I probably would have won the argument.

[gafftaper]

It's Not My Fault !!!
I voted against it - if I had realized there was an old EC product by that name, I probably would have won the argument.

So Plexus is the software you created for Oregon Shakespeare a while back, now being released by a major manufacturer? Congratulations! Hopefully they sell tons and you can buy us all dinner.

[Footer]

It's Not My Fault !!!

I voted against it - if I had realized there was an old EC product by that name, I probably would have won the argument.

Should have asked Derek. However, I doubt you could have afforded the consulting fee.

[JChenault]

So Plexus is the software you created for Oregon Shakespeare a while back, now being released by a major manufacturer? Congratulations! Hopefully they sell tons and you can buy us all dinner.

Pretty much ( with some significant enhancements to support conventional lights ). We're hopeful that I can buy you all dinner.

For those who want to check it out, the software should be available on the Gam site in two weeks. If anyone is interested in a beta ( ie use it in a show and give me feedback) let me know by PM

[dvsDave]

I'm working on the videos we shot of the Plexus with John demonstrating it's features. At this rate it may be late tonight or tomorrow before I get them uploaded and live, but I'm doing my best!

[ruinexplorer]

Got to see the new Apollo Wrenchmate in it's final form, a single integrated C wrench with essentially a megawrench on the other end.

wrenchmate.jpg

Now available as seen on their website.