ETC Prototype OLED Keyboard for EOS family

[dvsDave]

Matt from ETC's R&D department showed off a prototype of a potential new control device for the EOS family of consoles. He's looking for active feedback from the community on what you think of the idea and how you think you could use the keyboard. No estimated price for the keyboard yet.

[zmb]

Now your soft keys will have the function instead of just a number on them. I think that would be nice.

[theatre4jc]

Not and EOS user but that would be amazing! Put it on a Vista and I would love it as long as I could put my presets and such on it.

[Footer]

Pretty cool. Sure beats the X-Key remote that many people use. If they release it as software only with a dongle... even more interesting.

[dvsDave]

The impression that I got, is that they would release it concurrent with a software update. The whole thing runs via USB. It was really cool, and there was no perceptible delay between "switching screens". It looked almost production ready, but they are really, really interested in feedback from their customers to see what sort of interest there is and what people would want as a feature with this hardware.

[techieman33]

Price=$$$$$ the only oled keyboard I know of is the optimus and it runs around $2000

[Footer]

Price=$$$$$ the only oled keyboard I know of is the optimus and it runs around $2000

That is the Optimus keyboard. At 1800 bucks I think it is a bit of a waste of time. For that price, you can get 4 touchscreen monitors and put whatever the hell you want on it. However, I am sure SteveB can find a use for it.

[tyler.martin]

That looked like an optimus with customized keys.

That being said, If they made one with OLED keys that enabled the offline to have Net3 output, I would buy one. I hate using the keyboard shortcuts in the offline, and I can never remember them when I need them.

I could see the keys making the ION a little more busking friendly, if you could set up a group of keys for Moving LX group selection, then Color Palette Selection etc.

I would not necessarily want it in a keyboard style key layout, but in say 5x5 block's of keys, or something.

Definetly interesting though.

[ScottT]

If they want beta testers... They have my address!

[Footer]

That looked like an optimus with customized keys.

That being said, If they made one with OLED keys that enabled the offline to have Net3 output, I would buy one. I hate using the keyboard shortcuts in the offline, and I can never remember them when I need them.

I could see the keys making the ION a little more busking friendly, if you could set up a group of keys for Moving LX group selection, then Color Palette Selection etc.

I would not necessarily want it in a keyboard style key layout, but in say 5x5 block's of keys, or something.

Definetly interesting though.

It actually suprises me that the OLED buttons have not made their way over to the lighting world. Digico audio consoles have something that is close.

[Arez]

It actually suprises me that the OLED buttons have not made their way over to the lighting world. Digico audio consoles have something that is close.

I'm glad they haven't transitioned, desks are expensive enough as it is right now. But in a few years when the technology comes down in price and it's time for a new "revolutionary" console I'd bet money there will be at least a few of them build in.

[SteveB]

That is the Optimus keyboard. At 1800 bucks I think it is a bit of a waste of time. For that price, you can get 4 touchscreen monitors and put whatever the hell you want on it. However, I am sure SteveB can find a use for it.

Except that I have no idea what an OLED keyboard is. I also have a practical side that looks at the cost vs. usefulness. Thus the aRFR @ $50 plus a $40 router is absurd in it's effectivness vs. cost, where as I have not yet jumped on the X-Key wagon as that's a bit more pricey, is only a bit more useful then an RRFR, takes more time to get set up and running and as such I'd have a tough time selling the expense to the General Manager. So no way I'd be able to justify the price of an OLED. It would have to be dead on accurate speech recognition or something like that.

EDIT: OK, went and Googled. Not anything I see as a ground breaking improvement. And certainly not for $2000

[gafftaper]

EDIT: OK, went and Googled. Not anything I see as a ground breaking improvement. And certainly not for $2000

Just want to clarify that $2000ish is the cost of the Optimus Keyboard, we don't have a price on the ETC yet. That said, I agree that price will make or break this. It's a really slick useful accessory, but not necessary for operation. If they can get the price down into the couple hundred buck range they will sell like hotcakes. If they are over about $400/$500 it's going to become a hard sell.

[mstaylor]

Just want to clarify that $2000ish is the cost of the Optimus Keyboard, we don't have a price on the ETC yet. That said, I agree that price will make or break this. It's a really slick useful accessory, but not necessary for operation. If they can get the price down into the couple hundred buck range they will sell like hotcakes. If they are over about $400/$500 it's going to become a hard sell.

Agreed that cost will be a big difference. I use an Ion in one theatre and hopefully in the next few years we will have two more. They do not have touch screens and if they aren't too expensive I would consider getting one to take theatre to theatre.

[sk8rsdad]

As an add-on interface to an existing desk it isn't as valuable to me as something like a multi-touch desktop and a different paradigm for organizing an ever-increasing amount of data. As an integrated replacement for the existing console keypad, especially with all the overloaded keys, the new shift function and keyboard remapping from release to release, and internationalization of the keys, it would be a godsend. Infrequent users like those in my facility would benefit the most. As others have stated, the cost could make it prohibitive.

[Footer]

Just want to clarify that $2000ish is the cost of the Optimus Keyboard, we don't have a price on the ETC yet. That said, I agree that price will make or break this. It's a really slick useful accessory, but not necessary for operation. If they can get the price down into the couple hundred buck range they will sell like hotcakes. If they are over about $400/$500 it's going to become a hard sell.

The ETC one is the optimus keyboard.... like... its the same exact thing.... ETC bought an Optimus keyboard and hooked it up to the console. If they manage to sell it for less then ThinkGeek then 1,000s of people will be buying ETC branded keyboards for their gaming rigs.

[zmb]

Is it a standard QWERTY layout?
I could imagine having different sizes for smaller dollar amounts and that could make it more wide-ranged.

[dvsDave]

It can have a standard QWERTY layout, that's even demo'ed in the video.

[MNicolai]

Just want to clarify that $2000ish is the cost of the Optimus Keyboard, we don't have a price on the ETC yet. That said, I agree that price will make or break this. It's a really slick useful accessory, but not necessary for operation. If they can get the price down into the couple hundred buck range they will sell like hotcakes. If they are over about $400/$500 it's going to become a hard sell.

A Net3 RFR sells for roughly $2000. Why would an OLED keyboard like this be worth less to lighting programmers than a wireless remote with 20 buttons on it?

[SteveB]

A Net3 RFR sells for roughly $2000. Why would an OLED keyboard like this be worth less to lighting programmers than a wireless remote with 20 buttons on it?

Basically, with the RRFU you can wander. In theory, the OLED is either at the console, or connected to a laptop during focus or cuing ?. Thus it's tied to a device and not portable, so it's really a different tool for different functions, supposed to make use of the off-line editor in client mode a lot easier.

As to the cost of the RRFU ?, my comments on a CB post detail my experiences with the RRFU vs. the aRFR noted that the radio connection on the RRFU is in theory, more reliable then WiFi, as well as battery life on the RRFU being better then a phone. So for high use environments the RRFU is a worth the money.

The OLED is a bit of a hard sell.

ETC Eos series Android App

[tyler.martin]

It actually suprises me that the OLED buttons have not made their way over to the lighting world. Digico audio consoles have something that is close.

The Maxxyz and Maxxyz Compact both have grayscale LED keys. They are for selecting your fixture attributes, and cuelists.

[gafftaper]

A Net3 RFR sells for roughly $2000. Why would an OLED keyboard like this be worth less to lighting programmers than a wireless remote with 20 buttons on it?

For the same reason that many places don't buy touch screens. They are judged to be a fancy accessory that you don't absolutely need to have in order to run the console. Yes these items speed up your programming, but if you aren't in a high end concert environment, an added few seconds here and there programming is not enough to justify the expense. The RFR on the other hand increases the the speed of hang and refocus work significantly. A one person hang and focus is a nightmare without an RFR.

[SteveB]

For the same reason that many places don't buy touch screens. They are judged to be a fancy accessory that you don't absolutely need to have in order to run the console. Yes these items speed up your programming, but if you aren't in a high end concert environment, an added few seconds here and there programming is not enough to justify the expense. The RFR on the other hand increases the the speed of hang and refocus work significantly. A one person hang and focus is a nightmare without an RFR.

Agreed. If buying an Ion on a budget in order of the priorities:

- Ion 1024, add addresses later
- A 2x20 wing
- RRFU
- A 2nd wing, maybe a 2x10
- A touch screen
- Client Dongle and x-keys
- A 2nd TS
- aRFR or iRFR and WiFi router. Hard sell, as the aRFR or iRFR may work as well as the RRFU just not as reliably all the time. Very dependent on phone battery life for reliable functionality, or it sits on a charger all day.

[jglodeklights]

I have to say that I strongly disagree with this order and, depending on your space and how you configure your wireless network, the reliability of the aRFR and iRFR. Everything depends on what your theater needs. My summer stock really had no need for a 2x20 wing, the 2x10 was fine as nothing was ever busked and I only ever needed hazer and house light control with some emergency subs for bringing up and inhibiting my follow spots. At no point would a touch screen have been useful to have; I never would have had time to take my hand off the console's keys to touch anything on it. Also, no need for a client dongle, board was brought into the house and the programmer (me) sat with the designer next to them. During notes sessions after the board was brought back up to my perch the designer would move next to me or use a laptop with the client software running in Mirror Mode or in the Client viewing only mode.

As for a/i RFR or RRFU, yes, the RRFU may have better battery life, until the batteries in it go bad and you have to replace them. Yes, proper battery maintenance procedures would prevent this, but not everyone that will use it gets that. We also can't discount the ability to load it onto an iPad, which increases feature richness of the app as well, and its significantly more powerful battery along with those of Android Tablets. Additionally, the iRFR has the virtual encoders the RRFU doesn't provide for. Extremely slick and useful for checking your moving lights and scrollers and updating their positions.

All about scale, many different reasons why different theaters buy IONs and other EOS Family products. I think it does an injustice to many to blindly specify an order of importance for the things that go with these consoles. You've also not mentioned the RVI and BPU, which for some theaters may be of higher importance than anything on this list.

As for the OLED keyboard, useful if I'm programming my own show or busking it live, I would guess, but in many programming situations useless. Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console......

Agreed. If buying an Ion on a budget in order of the priorities:

- Ion 1024, add addresses later
- A 2x20 wing
- RRFU
- A 2nd wing, maybe a 2x10
- A touch screen
- Client Dongle and x-keys
- A 2nd TS
- aRFR or iRFR and WiFi router. Hard sell, as the aRFR or iRFR may work as well as the RRFU just not as reliably all the time. Very dependent on phone battery life for reliable functionality, or it sits on a charger all day.

[SteveB]

Joe

The issue of the value of a touch screen came up extensively in this thread - upgrade of lighting control board - need advice

Pretty much anyone that's used a touch screen see's the value. As well think for a minute that the Eos and Gios consoles, hardly busking desks, have sold as well as they have in part because they have built in touch screens. So obviously they can be a real time saver when set up and used properly.

Thus I find it odd that you would not recommend one, seemingly basing your opinion on the fact that "At no point would a touch screen have been useful to have" but not actually having used one in a programming environment (correct me if I'm wrong). Your final sentence "Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console" says it all, as PRESSING Color Pallete 1 on the TS, only labeled as "R02" is even easier when using a touch screen, with less chance for a typo.

As to WiFi versus the RRFU. Tough call and I say that. ETC has made the purchase of the RRFU questionable. I use both, often at the same time. In general, the RRFU battery life is much better then the typical iPhone or Android phone and you CAN change the batteries on an RRFU, which are cheap AA's. You can't change the battery on an iPhone. A tablet ?, hard to say.

Note that while the aRFR and iPhone app has better ML functionality, let's wait and see what ETC does to the RRFU with the next release, although I suspect the phone apps's, with a graphical interface will prove more useful and easier to use.

I do know that WiFi in general has typically been more problematic then the dedicated radio system ETC uses on the RRFU, and is the reason they went that route, but possibly that's changing with better understanding of network configuration as well as better equipment. I do know that you cannot use as example the fact that many manufacturers give out or sell assorted apps for Droid and iPhone, as that's just making it easier for the customers. WiFi has always been less robust for critical applications and pretty much everyone understands that. Thus it is my opinion, having used both the RRFU as well as the aRFR, that the RRFU is going to be more robust long term.

Client dongle versus an RVI ?. Anybodies guess and I didn't list it specifically for that reason . You get better usefulness out of the dongle, if you already have and use the computer/laptop for something else and can share it during the tech process. But really a specific application for the RVI which isn't cheap and only does one thing. The dongle might be more cost effective.

But the whole list is just that, an opinion, but I think that's a given, just like your priorities are an opinion.

So a caveat that MY list is what I found the most useful for a road house.

[jglodeklights]

I think it is important to clarify, as you've now done, what we are making the list for.

As for palette selection via direct selects: if I were programming my own show selecting a color palette on a TS is one thing. When its another designer spewing command line after command line at me, which did happen, there was no way I could have gotten my hands away from the keys to press a touch screen. Additionally, there were no moving lights in the rig this summer due to budget tightening, just ColorRamII scrollers. None of the designers opted to call out color frames by name (they were in the color palette labels), just by number. Had there been moving lights and more color palettes, then yes, touch screens would have begun helping things along, possibly.

This was the entire point of my post, though, that every theater operates in a different way. Dealing primarily with older and smaller (125, then 300 to 500 seat) venues as I most often do with more limited budgets and less moving light technology, touch screens and $1900 remotes are often out of the question as their return value is not near what it would be in a large road house. Wifi proves more than reliable enough for us; I've had a programmer complete a cuing notes session with an iPad running iRFR. Different strokes for different folks....

[chausman]

As to WiFi versus the RRFU. Tough call and I say that. ETC has made the purchase of the RRFU questionable. I use both, often at the same time. In general, the RRFU battery life is much better then the typical iPhone or Android phone and you CAN change the batteries on an RRFU, which are cheap AA's. You can't change the battery on an iPhone. A tablet ?, hard to say.

The iPad battery is not changeable. But, it lasts 10 hours (roughly, I've had that much battery.). The battery is also supposed to last for around 1000 cycles, so it should last a very long time, and could be powered by the console if need be.

I suppose if you were to want reliable wifi, you could add multiple WAPs throughout the building. If you configure them correctly, the i(a)RFR device could switch between them based on signal strength without losing signal.