Source Four Revolution

[Ice1605]

My school is looking at getting some moving lights, and the ETC Source Four Revolution was one that I saw that looked good. So, two questions.
One, are these lights good quality? Most of our lighting equipment is by ETC, and it is all good quality, so I would assume that the Revolutions are the same.
Two, we have an ETC Express light board. Can we use the moving lights feature on it to control the Revolutions (I would assume yes, but I thought I should check).

Thank you!

[sk8rsdad]

In answer to part 1, I guess it depends on why you are getting MLs and how you intend to use them in your productions. There are a lot of good MLs around the same price as a Revolution and many at a fraction of the price that may suit your needs. The interchangeable feature cartridges may not be a good option for a school (yet another thing to go missing).

In answer to part 2, it depends on the number of available channels on your Express. The console can control MLs, but you may not have enough channels to provide independent control of all parameters for 8 Revolutions. If I'm reading their user guide correctly, a fully loaded Revolution uses 31 channels.

[rochem]

In answer to part 2, it depends on the number of available channels on your Express. The console can control MLs, but you may not have enough channels to provide independent control of all parameters for 8 Revolutions. If I'm reading their user guide correctly, a fully loaded Revolution uses 31 channels.

From what I've seen, it seems like the most common Express is the 48/96. This means that you have only 192 channels to work with. Take your existing rig, add in a good margain for rentals or new equipment, and then find out how many channels you are currently using. Now add up in steps of 31 until you get to 192. That is the max number of fixtures that you will be able to run. Also, programming movers on an Express can be time-consuming and difficult. Since you were looking at the Revolution, I would guess that you basically want a "moving special" more than a fixture to be used for concerts and other flashy events. If you try to program complicated moving sequences with gobo rotations, color changes, figure 8s, and such, it will take you a very, very long time. Just make sure that you allow for ample time to program the fixtures before the show opens.

[icewolf08]

I love ETC and their gear, but as an owner of Revolutions, I have to say that they aren't worth what you spend on them. Yes, they are nice fixtures, and it is nice to have a light source that blends well with conventional fixtures, however they are the most troublesome fixtures I have ever used.

For the base price all you get is the unit and color scroller. You have to pay extra for the modules like gobo rotators, iris, shutters. The modular system is a great idea, but the limitations of a color scroller (no CMY) and only two modules at a time is kind of a bummer.

If you want to have tungsten source I would suggest looking at the Vari*Lite VL1000T. It will give you much better versatility, and is in the same price range as a fully loaded Rev. There are many moving lights in the price range that are arc source variety. I also own a couple of the Elation PowerSpot 700 CMY's which have been great for me since I bought them.

[gafftaper]

Sounds like problem number 1 may be your light board.
Answer these questions and we will tell you what your existing system can handle.
Which type of Express do you have?
How many dimmers do you have?
Do you have any other DMX powered devices you use on a regular basis?
How many moving lights were you thinking about purchasing?

You can run moving lights on an Express but you can't run many and it's not the easiest thing in the world to do.

As for what types of moving lights to purchase, there were a couple of great debates of ETC Revolution vs. the Vari-lite VL1000 a year or two back. Also check out Icewolf's review of the Elation Powerspot 700 CMY (another interesting alternative). The Search function is your friend! Personally I would go with a VL1000 over the Revolution.

Finally, please consider my philosophy on purchasing intelligent lighting equipment for schools. Around here it's become known as "The Gafftaper Method" many of my pro friends around here agree that it's an excellent strategy for limited budget educational theater. It may not be as sexy as moving lights, but there are often far more practical and useful ways to spend you limited budget on other intelligent gear. So please read this article.

[Ice1605]

Thanks for the replies! We have an Express 72/144 with enough open channels to run 2-4 MLs, although we would probably get 2. And as for why, my theater teacher told me that he was looking into moving fixtures, so I thought I would do some research. I will consider what you all have said, thanks again!

[gafftaper]

Let's say you spend a little under $10k for your two lights. How often will you actually use those two moving lights? For that same price you could add 10 color scrollers, about 6 Seachangers, a bunch of Right Arms/I-cues, gobo rotators... lots of options that will create components of the effects you get with a mover but will be used more often than the mover for a typical high school theater.

Also consider the cost of renting vs. purchasing. Let's say you only need them once a year for a musical. A one week rental will cost you around 200-$300 each.

Finally, who is going to program and maintain them? It's NOT easy programing elaborate moving light cues on an Express. It's possible but you are not going to get really great looking effects like you see in concerts without hours of programming. Who is going to take the time to learn how to do that and then do it for every show? Too often what happens is a school buys this stuff and then the student who learned how to use it graduates and the gear get's moved into storage because no one knows how to operate or maintain it.

I'm not trying to be mr. gloom and doom. But I believe that form most high schools purchasing moving lights is a very poor choice.

[Esoteric]

The poster that mentioned the VL1000T is right on. Great unit, seems like what you need. Or some Color Command units (or Studio Command) that you would get even more use out of.

Mike

[gafftaper]

Also as Esoteric has mentioned in other threads purchasing used gear is an interesting option to explore. Check out the websites of Gear Source and Solaris Network.

Beware that some states don't allow the purchase of used equipment so check that out before you get in trouble. Also there may be restrictions on how you can spend money in large amounts. For example anything over $3200 has to get multiple bids in this state.

[Esoteric]

To provide a contrast to "mister doom and gloom" ;-) with a little planning and some careful bidding you can get a lot more for your money and have your cake and eat it too. $10k for two movers is way too much. Find a company you know and trust and they will work with you to get you what you need. For $10k you should be able to get between 4 and half a dozen movers. If you invest wisely and get good units, you will use them in every show (musical, play, concert, on and on). You will love the flexibility you get from them. You will be able to replace multiple washes, specials, etc with single or a small group of units.

Why settle for McDonalds when you can afford Saltgrass?

Mike

[Esoteric]

Yup, I agree on used equipment, but be sure that you know the source!! Develop a relationship and make sure they will work with you. I sell used gear and I always keep a good relationship with my suppliers and clients.

Mike

[derekleffew]

...As for what types of moving lights to purchase, there were a couple of great debates of ETC Revolution vs. the Vari-lite VL1000 a year or two back. Also check out Icewolf's review of the Elation Powerspot 700 CMY (another interesting alternative). ...

The Elation Powerspot 700 CMY cannot in any way be compared to the other two. If a tungsten source and framing shutters are desired, the only alternatives are the Revolution and the VL1000TS.

If willing to sacrifice the shutters and go for a wash fixture, one has the VL500 and Martin TW-1. If willing to sacrifice the tungsten source, there are the VL1000AS, VL3500Spot, and Martin MAC2000 Performance. Does anyone else make a moving light with framing shutters?

[thommyboy]

Does anyone else make a moving light with framing shutters?

The only one I have found is th Clay Paky Alpha Profile 1200.

[gafftaper]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that the Elation Powerspot 700 CMY is at all similar to the Rev or the VL1k. The Rev and the VL1k are a great first step into the moving light world because they are tungsten and will blend nicely with your conventional package. I believe they are the only tungsten source profile fixtures on the market. I was suggesting that if one is looking to move up beyond tungsten, then the Powerspot seems like a great option that has a lot of bang for your buck. I also mentioned it because the last time I saw a price quote, the Powerspot 700 was priced about $200 more than a VL1000 (and $3000 less than a Mac 700). Also, remember that the tungsten source really isn't that big of a deal a cheap CTO filter will fix any matching problems you might have.

[derekleffew]

... Also, remember that the tungsten source really isn't that big of a deal a cheap CTO filter will fix any matching problems you might have.

Provided one cares not about the effects of amber drift and modified square-law dimming curves.

[Ice1605]

Alright, thank you. I will see what my drama teacher thinks. He knows that the district will probably not let him buy any (and will make the other items on his proposal less likely to get cut if the price is too high), but if he does get them, best to get good ones, right? Thanks for the replies, I will consider what you all have said.

[JChenault]

I have two revolutions in my rig, each with a shutter module and a rotating wheel. ( IMHO the only pairing that makes sense). We got these units about 2 years ago, and they have made our shows look much better. We use them mainly for color washes, Gobos, Specials, and the extra punch / color in an area.

In the two years we have had them, they have been seen to move by the audience ( IE intensity is up, and pan/tilt change) three times.

We started out with some quality control issues that ETC and our dealer worked hard to correct. Once those have been worked out, the units have ( so far) been dependable. The shutter module recently was returned to ETC for refurbishing.

I believe that for theatre, shutters are a must. We considered the VL 1K with shutters as well.

Things I like. The ability to use M size gobos in the unit. You get a lot more choices than what Vari Lite offers.

Things I don't like. Only three gobos. Only one gobo wheel. ( true with shutter module on VL 1K as well). No CMY mixing ( But I can live with a string).

In talking with friends who have arc source units, I would stay away from them for your use case. A CTO conversion does not work that well. As the arc lamp ages the color temprature changes. Stay with incandascent if you want the units to blend in with your conventional fixtures.

[icewolf08]

Things I like. The ability to use M size gobos in the unit. You get a lot more choices than what Vari Lite offers.

This is not true, you can get any gobo from the major manufacturers (Gam, Rosco, Apollo, etc.) in the correct size for Vari*Lite fixtures as well as many other ML manufacturers at the standard template price. So you have exactly the same number of choices for templates.

Things I don't like. Only three gobos. Only one gobo wheel. ( true with shutter module on VL 1K as well). No CMY mixing ( But I can live with a string).

The Revolution is capable of having two gobo wheels, so a total of 6 templates. All VL1000s have a rotating gobo wheel with 5 slots plus open.

In talking with friends who have arc source units, I would stay away from them for your use case. A CTO conversion does not work that well. As the arc lamp ages the color temprature changes. Stay with incandascent if you want the units to blend in with your conventional fixtures.

With a CMY fixture the light source matters much less. You can color mix to match your conventional rig. An Arc source will generally give you a lot more punch so if you need to cut through light on stage it helps. If you have a board op who is good at color mixing and programing then you can blend pretty well. There are other issues with arc sources that can be challenging, like dimming, but it all depends on how you use them

Here is something else to consider. A revolution with shutters and gobo at 88lbs weighs over 10 pounds more than the VL1K at 70lbs. These lights are both pretty big, but I have found the Revs to be a real pain to move around.

You should also consider how you are going to store and maintain these fixtures. A road box for revs will set you back a pretty penny as it will probably be a custom job. If you store them in the air you will have to be really good about cleaning them and maintaining them. Also you have to make sure that should anything go wrong with a fixture you either have someone on site who can make repairs or you have to have the money to send them out for repair. If you will be sending things out for repair you should find out what fixtures your local dealers are certified to work on as you don't want to have to ship fixtures out unless there is no other option.

[DarSax]

I've never personally designed needing to use arc sources with conventionals in a theatrical setting, but when I saw Mac550s used to match EGGs (looow color temp) in my high school, it looked awful. Is that just because the designer was inexperienced using CTO, or am I right in thinking that it's really not all that good of an option?

[JChenault]

This is not true, you can get any gobo from the major manufacturers (Gam, Rosco, Apollo, etc.) in the correct size for Vari*Lite fixtures as well as many other ML manufacturers at the standard template price. So you have exactly the same number of choices for templates.

My understanding was that the gobo in the Vari Light is glass, and therefore more expensive than a cheapo metal M size template. Are you saying that the Vari Lite fixture can use metal M gobos as well?

The Revolution is capable of having two gobo wheels, so a total of 6 templates. All VL1000s have a rotating gobo wheel with 5 slots plus open.

Right - but if you have a shutter module ( which I assert is almost required for theatre usage) you are restricted to 3 gobos in the Revolution.

With a CMY fixture the light source matters much less. You can color mix to match your conventional rig. An Arc source will generally give you a lot more punch so if you need to cut through light on stage it helps. If you have a board op who is good at color mixing and programing then you can blend pretty well. There are other issues with arc sources that can be challenging, like dimming, but it all depends on how you use them

I have not had a lot of personal experience with mixing Arc and Incandescent, but I have friends who have and they tell me it is more than a little difficult. Especially when the arc starts getting old, and the color starts changing.

Also you have to make sure that should anything go wrong with a fixture you either have someone on site who can make repairs or you have to have the money to send them out for repair. If you will be sending things out for repair you should find out what fixtures your local dealers are certified to work on as you don't want to have to ship fixtures out unless there is no other option.

I completely agree. Indeed if you are choosing between a Revolution and a Vari Light, the deal breaker probably should be which unit can be locally serviced.

[icewolf08]

My understanding was that the gobo in the Vari Light is glass, and therefore more expensive than a cheapo metal M size template. Are you saying that the Vari Lite fixture can use metal M gobos as well?

It isn't M size, but yes, it is my understanding that you don't have to use VL's proprietary glass gobos. You just need to ask your dealer for templates in the correct size.

[TimMiller]

you can call any gobo manufacturer and ask for whatever gobo for a VL1000. I have used revolutions several times and i hate them. They are the most sorry excuse for a moving light ever invented. Color scrollers were fine in the early 90's but why buy a "new light" with old technology. Color scrollers are always prone to fail. They rely on a motor to keep the gel string in position and instead of a nice arc lamp changing color on you as it gets older, you will have a gel string burning through, nothing like the color changing on you across fixtures. The arc source vs a incandecent is really not a huge deal. Pratically every moving light has a CTO of some sort in it. I perfer a lamp getting dimmer rather than just burning out with no warning. Lamp intensities i can program around, but burned out lamps i cannot. If you want something similar to an incandescent go with the VL1000 which is not a bad light, or something like a studio spot 575, and go with the MSD lamp, it has the same color temp. I installed several studio spots in schools that have the etc express 48/96 and a few with the 24/48 without any problems.

[bhallerm]

We have two VariLite VL1000's and I will say that they come in handy. Our space is used at least twice a week for full school assemblies. During production designing (3 times a year) when we re-focus or completely move most of our conventional fixtures that usually wash/light the stage, the VL's come in very handy for everything from simple stage wash to moving gobos, spot, etc. Our board isn't the world's best at controlling them, but we make and keep a list of groups for quick call up for different situations.

BJH

[jxgriffi]

My understanding was that the gobo in the Vari Light is glass, and therefore more expensive than a cheapo metal M size template. Are you saying that the Vari Lite fixture can use metal M gobos as well?

From Vari-lite Technical Notice:
In some cases, metal gobos have been found, over time, to discolor and warp, fall out of their holders, and interfere with other assemblies or mechanisms in the luminaire. Vari-Lite strongly recommends any customer using metal gobos remove these gobos from their VARI❋LITE luminaire(s) and replace them with Vari-Lite approved glass gobos. Vari-Lite, as well as other gobo vendors, produce and offer suitable glass gobos.

So, VL recommends GLASS gobos. You can still get them from ANY manufacturer, but metal gobos are indeed frowned upon.

[icewolf08]

From Vari-lite Technical Notice:
In some cases, metal gobos have been found, over time, to discolor and warp, fall out of their holders, and interfere with other assemblies or mechanisms in the luminaire. Vari-Lite strongly recommends any customer using metal gobos remove these gobos from their VARI❋LITE luminaire(s) and replace them with Vari-Lite approved glass gobos. Vari-Lite, as well as other gobo vendors, produce and offer suitable glass gobos.

Hmm, funny thing, metal gobos do that, no matter what fixture you put them in. You need to change your gobos before they burn up, this is nothing new.

[jxgriffi]

I agree Alex....

I've used them in VL1000's before...I was just posting the "official" VL response.

[Kelite]

I agree Alex....

I've used them in VL1000's before...I was just posting the "official" VL response.

While attending a tradeshow north of the border a few years ago, George Masek (VL Product Manager) invited my colleague and I to view the inner workings of the then-new VL2000. He stated that using steel gobos would indeed void the manufacturer's warranty, and several VL rental houses were having issues with fixtures returning from rental venues. When opened, steel gobos were found within the damaged rotating wheels.
It's not so much that the steel gobos 'burn out', but that they conduct the heat through to the rotating mechanism, while glass on the other hand will reflect a large amount of heat energy and run cooler.

If one uses their own VL fixtures and doesn't mind the risk when specifying steel gobos, it's their choice. But again, the warranty may not cover damage to the rotator mechanism.

This does make sense and we now only make glass gobos for the VL1k, 2k and 3k fixtures.

[TimMiller]

wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.

[icewolf08]

wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.

Have to agree there, this sounds like a serious design flaw. If the internal workings of the fixture can't take the heat it seems like you have much bigger problems. Sounds to me like a marketing ploy to get people to buy gobos from VL, because I would worry about using a moving light whose internals can't stand the heat of the lamp.

[MNicolai]

wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.

Though I understand where you're coming from, I don't necessarily see how your example applies. Schools which own ML's are hard to come by as is, and I'd pity any that rent ML's and the use them solely (or even just mostly) as curtain warmers.

In absence of a problem-free design though, I'd suggest that maybe the rental companies should have programs which include glass gobo rentals. That is, if they're providing ML fixtures w/ heat dissipation flaws often to groups which wouldn't own their own glass gobos. This is hardly a solution though, only a means of potential means of conducting business until better options arise.

What would concern me more than just gobos is events in the summer, in closed areas, or any other situation where heat from multiple fixtures could raise the temps of the area considerably and have the potential for causing damage as a result.

[derekleffew]

...In absence of a problem-free design though, I'd suggest that maybe the rental companies should have programs which include glass gobo rentals. That is, if they're providing ML fixtures w/ heat dissipation flaws often to groups which wouldn't own their own glass gobos. This is hardly a solution though, only a means of potential means of conducting business until better options arise. ...

Some shops do this, but the selection rarely adequate.

For a possible solution, see InLight Gobos - Dallas, Texas.

[TimMiller]

I have loads of theatrical gobos that usually make most schools who want a custom effect happy. Also with my key theatrical fixture being x-spots that are totally loaded up with breakups i very rarely get a complaint. I wish i had my studio spot 250's still, i have a lot of really cool gobos for them.

[gbales]

Does anyone know how to properly program the ETC Source Four Revolution? I started out by setting up a node to our second universe. Then I addressed the ML to 513 (DMX), assigned it to channel 513 and addressed the channel to 513. My friend from strand lighting told me this should be the correct way to do it. But when I go to pan/tilt the ML it does not move like I want it to. I also cannot get the modules to work correctly(gobo rotater and iris). For some reason my board does not have the option of selecting these options from the dimmer menu but it comes up on the smart keys. I didn't have trouble with the existing color scroller but when I go to pan from 1 deg to 2 deg the ML moves almost 360 degrees and the tilt moves way more than it should. The second thing I am worried about is I lose control of the intensity and the ML is always at full.PLEASE HELP ME OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Gary

I am using a Strand Lighting "Light Palette Classic" board to program the movers

[techno89]

From what is sounds like to me is that you've only addressed 1 channel and you need to keep going. I don't know if a light palette classic has fixture profiles so I'm sure someone else can chime in on that.

[icewolf08]

Does anyone know how to properly program the ETC Source Four Revolution? I started out by setting up a node to our second universe. Then I addressed the ML to 513 (DMX), assigned it to channel 513 and addressed the channel to 513. My friend from strand lighting told me this should be the correct way to do it. But when I go to pan/tilt the ML it does not move like I want it to. I also cannot get the modules to work correctly(gobo rotater and iris). For some reason my board does not have the option of selecting these options from the dimmer menu but it comes up on the smart keys. I didn't have trouble with the existing color scroller but when I go to pan from 1 deg to 2 deg the ML moves almost 360 degrees and the tilt moves way more than it should. The second thing I am worried about is I lose control of the intensity and the ML is always at full.PLEASE HELP ME OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Gary

I am using a Strand Lighting "Light Palette Classic" board to program the movers

First off, if you have you fixture on universe 2 and you want it to be address 513 then you need to set the physical address on the fixture to 1. Each universe runs it's very own set of addresses from 1-512, it is the controller that interprets 2/1 (Universe 2, Address 1) as 513. Setting the physical address of your fixture above 512 will put it into various test programs and standalone modes, it won't really do what you want it to do.

Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library. Make sure that you load the correct Revolution personality as many times there are multiple since you can reconfigure the fixture with different modules. (This is actually superfluous because the DMX Footprint is the same no matter the configuration, but at least in the old 500 series Revolution profiles there were three).

Hope that is helpful. As someone who works with Revs and Strand desks every day, I am happy to try to offer more insight if I can.

[LXPlot]

Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library.

Yeah, you would put in 2.1, or if you put in 513 it should autocorrect to 2.1. Also, make sure that you hit patch routing (should be S10, or a similar softkey, while under patch), and set the second DMX universe (513-1024) to live. If it was disabled then you shouldn't have been able to control things in the second universe or receiving data through the second cable. If data is received from a different cable/universe, make sure those are live as well.

I'm going to post a link to Strand Palette OS User Manual so you can read all about this yourself if need be. It should be fully comprehensive.

Also, since ETC Source Four Revolution has different modules and modes, I will add a link to ETC Source Four Revolution User Manual as well.

Finally, you should go to the New Member Forum and type up a formal introduction.

[gbales]

First off, if you have you fixture on universe 2 and you want it to be address 513 then you need to set the physical address on the fixture to 1. Each universe runs it's very own set of addresses from 1-512, it is the controller that interprets 2/1 (Universe 2, Address 1) as 513. Setting the physical address of your fixture above 512 will put it into various test programs and standalone modes, it won't really do what you want it to do.

Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library. Make sure that you load the correct Revolution personality as many times there are multiple since you can reconfigure the fixture with different modules. (This is actually superfluous because the DMX Footprint is the same no matter the configuration, but at least in the old 500 series Revolution profiles there were three).

Hope that is helpful. As someone who works with Revs and Strand desks every day, I am happy to try to offer more insight if I can.

Thank you so much! I am not by any means a "pro" at movers, in fact I only have about 3 months solid experience on this board so any info is a huge improvement for me. I have a show coming up that I am designing and the company wants movers. My boss is an die-hard ETC board guy so he is also lost with the Strand board. I get to play more with them today so hopefully I can get it figured out. However, since our house lights and orchestra lights are all on dimmers running to the board we use almost all 512 of our dimmers in universe 1. If that will mess me up let me know but once again thanks for the solid advice!!!!!

[icewolf08]

Thank you so much! I am not by any means a "pro" at movers, in fact I only have about 3 months solid experience on this board so any info is a huge improvement for me. I have a show coming up that I am designing and the company wants movers. My boss is an die-hard ETC board guy so he is also lost with the Strand board. I get to play more with them today so hopefully I can get it figured out. However, since our house lights and orchestra lights are all on dimmers running to the board we use almost all 512 of our dimmers in universe 1. If that will mess me up let me know but once again thanks for the solid advice!!!!!

Using almost all of your dimmers/addresses in universe 1 will not mess you up at all. It is fairly common practice, especially on smaller rigs to use one universe for dimmers and conventional fixtures and then keep moving lights and devices on universe 2. Most higher end lighting controllers (i.e. Strand 500 series, Palette Series, ETC Obsession II, Eos, Ion, Hogs, MAs, etc) are capable of thinking of addresses in either universe format or by full number. However, I think that it helps keep things organized and simpler if you use universe format. Here is the difference:
UNIVERSE FORMAT: 2/239 (universe 2, address 239)
FULL ADDRESS: 751
Why does it work this way? Well, each DMX output on your console is controlled by it's own RS-485 chip. Each data stream can only carry 512 pieces of level information. The data transmission for DMX doesn't actually contain address information, it is just a transmission of levels, each device listens to the data and counts each level bit until it gets to the one that is it's own. If your device is address to 342 then it counts the first 341 bits of information that go by and then it does what the 342nd tells it to do. This is true for any universe of DMX. So, if you were running 20 DMX universes you could have 20 devices whose physical address on the device is 342, but if they are all on separate universes they can be controlled individually.

I hope that makes some sense.

As far as setting up your console goes, the address of the fixture does not have to match the channel number you are patching it to on the console. Now that both Strand and ETC have made it so that a moving light only takes up one channel, it is easy to fit moving lights and devices anywhere in your patch. As I mentioned before, just assign the fixture to a channel and make sure you give it the correct profile from the fixture library on the console.