Control/Dimming - Picking out a new light board.

[NickJones]

OOH! OOH! My Turn...
That's like buying a Cray supercomputer

to play PONG.

The super computer looks like the toilets in Ampsterdam

They are for women too.... Dignified.

And as for my comparison, it's like using

FIBRE OPTICS TO SEND....
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/root/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
MORSE CODE!

End of useless post.

[MillburyAuditorium]

MrsFooter up there is a professional lighting designer and Soundlight is nearing graduation in a college lighting program they know what they are talking about. YOU NEED LIGHT FIXTURES. Your videos are REALLY dark and blotchy, or washed out and flat lacking color and depth. This is nothing to be ashamed of, you clearly haven't had proper training. You are doing your best on your own, passing along the wisdom of the ages from one student tech to another, without a teacher who knows anything to guide you. Imagine what would happen if math was taught the way lighting is taught at your school! I've taught a lot of young "gorilla theater survivor" technicians like yourself. Trust me there are many things that you think of as good that are not. There are many things that you think you know about lighting that are just flat out wrong. Again this isn't your fault and it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's the fault of the administration that didn't hire a real pro to teach you anything. When you go to college and get some real training you will laugh (or cry) at how sad your current situation is. You aren't alone. There are MANY students who hang out around CB in similar or even worse situations. I myself was in a far worse situation in high school. We can help. But you are going to have to trust us a bit. Just to get you started think about this. A standard lighting plot splits the stage up into areas around 8 feet in diameter. Each of these areas is lit with a minimum of two or three fixtures from the front, one light directly overhead, and two lights from the side and/or two lights from the back. Thus it's normal for every 8' area on the stage to have AT LEAST 5 lights focused on it (often you will find 6 or 8). You can easily find that number increasing up to 11 (or more) if you need multiple color washes of the stage... for a single 8' diameter circle. Again that's not your normal, but that's what we consider good lighting out here.

First off what you call "color bars" are properly called Striplights. A typical proscenium stage is about 40' wide and about 25' from the grand drape to the back curtain. A typical lighting inventory would include 3 or 4 rows deep of strip lights by 4 or 5 fixtures per row... That's between 12-20 strip lights... each eating up 3 circuits... and we've just used up all your spare circuits... which is why you need 96 or better yet 192 dimmers.

What you need to do:
#1 Get a book or two about lighting design and read them.

#2 Go volunteer at a community theater, a local community college or university, another high school with a good program. Find someone who knows about lights who is willing to teach you a few tricks in exchange for your hard work. SOMEONE will do this if you look for them. Theater techs are good people and love to help, that's why so many real pros hang out here on this website. You've just got to find that person.

#3 You need a lot of basic light fixtures. You DO NOT need any sort of moving lights. I like Soundlight's "96 dimmers and 200 fixture" minimum... but I want to add that you also need to spend more than $1000 per year renting moving lights to that list (can't afford that? you can't afford the upkeep on moving lights). However much money you are able to come up with you need to spend at least 60% on new lighting fixtures... You can get Ellipsoidals, Pars, Fresnels, and Strip lights. Nothing that changes colors or does tricks.



OOH! OOH! My Turn...
That's like buying a Cray supercomputer

to play PONG.

I said with the videos, it was the camera, thats why it was dark. Our stage is actually pretty bright if we need it. It is a very small stage as well, we don't have a huge theatre department. 16 spots, 8 Fresnels, two color bars and two full cyc's.

[cprted]

I said with the videos, it was the camera, thats why it was dark. Our stage is actually pretty bright if we need it. It is a very small stage as well, we don't have a huge theatre department. 16 spots, 8 Fresnels, two color bars and two full cyc's.

Which is why you don't need the movers. The dark spot, hot spots, etc, aren't just the camera. As it was said either in this thread or one of the other ones, it may seem like we're picking on you, but we're actually trying to help.

You're getting some very good advice from Gafttaper et al. You would be doing a lot to help yourself and the other student technicians (present and future) at your school if you heeded it.

[kiwitechgirl]

OK, this might sound a little bit harsh, but really I am going to say this entirely for your own good. To quote a show I worked on earlier this year, harsh isn't always true but it usually is! Having read this thread and your others, here's my advice:

I am currently a Senior student. I have been the director of lighting and sound since I was in 7th grade.

In the real world, this title has absolutely no relevance. You may run the crew and design shows - all power to you for doing that - but when it comes to buying equipment, the school is not going to give you $15,000 and say "here you go, go buy what you want with it." It just does not work that way; there will be procedures that have to be gone through - multiple quotes for equipment, for instance, red tape that has to be worked through and a senior staff member is going to have to sign everything off. If you walk into a professional theatre looking for a job and tell them you were the "director of lighting and sound" they'll laugh at you.

Really, we only have spotlights. We use gels for the front spots sometimes and then there are some pretty sad colored lights above the stage, we need to replace them soon with LED color lights, you cant see the colors unless all other lights are off. But needless of our lack of "cool" lighting we sellout everything we do. I just want a new color bar and four moving heads : P Which I am planning on getting DJ lights when I go about getting new lights. Smaller DJ moving heads are all we need for our size theatre.

Wrong. You need to learn how to use the equipment you have properly first. While LED technology has come a long way in recent years, in terms of brightness they're still nowhere near as bright as a regular parcan; buy them to use for colour washes and you'll probably find that you have to turn all the other lights off to see the colours anyway. You would be far, far better to buy some decent fresnels and a good stock of gel which will give you much, much more bang for your buck. As for the moving heads, DJ heads will be the same as your existing coloured lights - you'll have to switch everything else off to see the effects. I work in a 300-seat professional theatre which is a pretty small space; we do six shows a week, 44 weeks of the year (we do eight plays a year, with a week-long production week for each show) plus a kids show during the daytimes for two weeks every school holidays (3 shows a day), and an improvised late-night comedy show every Friday and Saturday night. So we're doing upwards of 450 shows every year, and do we own moving lights? No. We rent them when we need them - which is not for every show. That way we get the right light for the application; if they break down the hire company gets us a replacement in double-quick time - currently we have a pair of Martin MX-10s in the rig; both have broken down over the last week, and the hire company has been down with a replacement for us within half an hour, and earlier this year we had a Mac600 power supply blow up and catch fire, and again we had a replacement within half an hour; and the biggest thing, we don't have to pay for the upkeep and lamp replacement of them. Had we owned those units, we would not have had the parts in stock to replace the broken parts (both the MX-10s had busted stepper motors) and our shows would have been seriously compromised because of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that NOBODY should own moving lights, because that would be stupid, but until you have the ongoing resources to maintain them, and the real, genuine need for them, rather than the motive of wanting toys to play with. Also, DJ gear is of a lesser quality as a general rule; you'll find things like they won't hold their position properly - each time you go back to the cue where it's in a certain position, it may not be in exactly the same place as you plotted them - and gobos won't index properly so it'll never be the same twice running. You've been given some excellent advice in this thread from people who really do know what they're talking about; you made a good decision in coming here to ask for advice, now take the advice you've been given!

Like I said, I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're, what, 17? There are people on this board who have been working in the industry since before you were born - listen to what they have to say!

[gafftaper]

Like I said, I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're, what, 17? There are people on this board who have been working in the industry since before you were born - listen to what they have to say!

Actually, I'm about to turn 40 and we've got people who've been working in the industry since before I was born. We've got industry executives, pros who were out on tour with legendary bands in the 70's, someone was telling me recently about some things he fabricated that went out on the current tour with Paul McCartney, we have people who work for Cirque du Soliel, Disney, Broadway shows, 15,000+ seat auditoriums, and people who have been in business selling gear for over 30 years. There's a LOT of experience around here.

[MillburyAuditorium]

OK, this might sound a little bit harsh, but really I am going to say this entirely for your own good. To quote a show I worked on earlier this year, harsh isn't always true but it usually is! Having read this thread and your others, here's my advice:



In the real world, this title has absolutely no relevance. You may run the crew and design shows - all power to you for doing that - but when it comes to buying equipment, the school is not going to give you $15,000 and say "here you go, go buy what you want with it." It just does not work that way; there will be procedures that have to be gone through - multiple quotes for equipment, for instance, red tape that has to be worked through and a senior staff member is going to have to sign everything off. If you walk into a professional theatre looking for a job and tell them you were the "director of lighting and sound" they'll laugh at you.



Wrong. You need to learn how to use the equipment you have properly first. While LED technology has come a long way in recent years, in terms of brightness they're still nowhere near as bright as a regular parcan; buy them to use for colour washes and you'll probably find that you have to turn all the other lights off to see the colours anyway. You would be far, far better to buy some decent fresnels and a good stock of gel which will give you much, much more bang for your buck. As for the moving heads, DJ heads will be the same as your existing coloured lights - you'll have to switch everything else off to see the effects. I work in a 300-seat professional theatre which is a pretty small space; we do six shows a week, 44 weeks of the year (we do eight plays a year, with a week-long production week for each show) plus a kids show during the daytimes for two weeks every school holidays (3 shows a day), and an improvised late-night comedy show every Friday and Saturday night. So we're doing upwards of 450 shows every year, and do we own moving lights? No. We rent them when we need them - which is not for every show. That way we get the right light for the application; if they break down the hire company gets us a replacement in double-quick time - currently we have a pair of Martin MX-10s in the rig; both have broken down over the last week, and the hire company has been down with a replacement for us within half an hour, and earlier this year we had a Mac600 power supply blow up and catch fire, and again we had a replacement within half an hour; and the biggest thing, we don't have to pay for the upkeep and lamp replacement of them. Had we owned those units, we would not have had the parts in stock to replace the broken parts (both the MX-10s had busted stepper motors) and our shows would have been seriously compromised because of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that NOBODY should own moving lights, because that would be stupid, but until you have the ongoing resources to maintain them, and the real, genuine need for them, rather than the motive of wanting toys to play with. Also, DJ gear is of a lesser quality as a general rule; you'll find things like they won't hold their position properly - each time you go back to the cue where it's in a certain position, it may not be in exactly the same place as you plotted them - and gobos won't index properly so it'll never be the same twice running. You've been given some excellent advice in this thread from people who really do know what they're talking about; you made a good decision in coming here to ask for advice, now take the advice you've been given!

Like I said, I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're, what, 17? There are people on this board who have been working in the industry since before you were born - listen to what they have to say!

We do not have ten or more people running the lights and sound int he auditorium. We have two, We don't use any official names, We do not have any teacher that knows anything about the lighting and sound so when we need something needs to be done, I go do it. I get pulled out of class for multiple things that go on in the auditorium. Six years ago we had a guy that did the lights and sound, but when I got interested in it my first year I helped him out the next year and then took over the year after that. We have a professional that comes in from Leviton, who isntalled our system when the room was built, and if there was anythign wrong he would of told us. The auditorium has no designated thatre group or theatre department. As I said, we have two people, 1 that handles the lightboard, and one with the sound board, EQ and CD mixer and wireless mics. I know how to use the sound board as well but I am more itnregued about lighting. They are UV settings on camera and I beleive that is why it looks so dark. We had to mvoe the spotlights all over the place for for that last play because we needed a lot of different spotlights. We noticed the dark spot on day one, but there was nothing we could do about it except stay away from it. But pelase trust me on that the stage is always uniformly lit.As people suggested, I will try to get some more fresnels. Also as other said I will not go witht he moving head idea. And, I have purchased new gels for the spotlights and the color bars above the stage, I will try them out next time I am at the school and see if there is any difference. I only suggested LEDs because I knew that you can clearly see them in daytime, unless all lights are off, even the normal lights on the ceiling above the stage are on you can faintly see the colored lights. If the new gels dont do anything I will look for a new fixture.

I am well aware they are not just going to hand me out $15,000, even when I buy a lightbulb for a burnt light I go through the drama director, I am getting all 5 Drama directors from both sides of the school, Junior and Senior, to back me up and present my argument to the board about this mini "renevation".

I am not disagreeing with people here, as I am wella ware most of not all of you are profesionals. If I have any chance to, I will bring my camera to school and take some pictures. Most likely when I go out to program the board.

Even though I may be a senior, I am the only person in the school, besides the sound op, who knows anything about the topic. So if we need anything, its up to me or the sound op to bring it up.
And aslo, even though I am a senior, the school calls me at home asking if I could come in and run some dance recital show because they forgot to tell me that they were comming, of which I get paid to do.

And the office knows if anything is need to go to me, once, the guy who ran everything before I came, came back one year and wanted to run the sound again so I said sure why not, he totaly messed up the EQs and it jsut sounded horrable, so while he was away I fixed it, and the last show sounded great, I am pretty sure he was trying to frame me for messing up the sound.

So basicly I am just saying, that we dont do things here like many other schools do. Of course I know I cant ask for 15 grand, Or jsut do thigns myself or not follow codes. But since I am the only one who knows about the topic, Its my job to figure out what is best to purchase and how to purchase it and I have coem to a conclusion that, for this topic, It will be the ETC Element and some new fixtures.

When I get my case cleared, I will be ordering a demo of the Element.


(By the way, About my typing, sorry for the mistakes, I useally type very fast then go back and fix mistakes, but spell check isnt working to great on this site, my browser spell checks for me, so Sorry if it seems I am careless.)

Is there anything else anyone would like to suggest on the topic of lighting? Any specific fixtures or anything?

[Footer]

You need to read this thread...http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/e...h-complex.html

GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED. You are doing more harm them good, no matter what you leave them, being a new booth, new lightboard, or whatever else, you might as well leave them with nothing. All the gear that you buy will go to waste if no one is there to run it. You don't want to be getting phone calls about how to turn on the lights. If you do get those phone calls you have failed at doing what you should be doing. Take this time to train someone else, leave that as the gift from your class. If you really want to give a gift... go buy these dvd's.

Practical Technical Theater :: The Complete Solution for Technical Theater Classrooms

Yes, they are boring, yes my students hated them, but they do have good knowledge in them. They are at least a starting point.

People are not out there to get you. People are there to learn. Even if you think no one wants to do your job, someone out there do. They can do it just as well if not better then you. Don't get a booth built so you can have a castle to call your own. If there are not 3 people that can hang a light, plug it in, patch in, focus it, turn it on, and cue it when you leave you will have made the problem worse. Someone taught you, its time for you to do the same. Don't be the kid that knows everything, be the kid that teaches everyone what they know.

[Wolf]

I have purchased new gels for the spotlights and the color bars above the stage, I will try them out next time I am at the school and see if there is any difference. ... If the new gels dont do anything I will look for a new fixture.


Is there anything else anyone would like to suggest on the topic of lighting? Any specific fixtures or anything?

You have mentioned the gel thing before and I'm not exactly sure why you think this would really help. Unless you have a quite saturated gel in the fixture getting a new lighter color would not help it to be seen. A saturated gel in any fixture will cut down the intensity, but it will not be a "dimming" effect if the fixture is efficient.

As far as new fixture advice I would suggest either pars or fresnels as down light, the trim of your electrics will factor into what type to get. For front light I would go for ERS units and I personally like ETC and once again your throw distance will factor into what degree to get.

Are you familiar with how to do photometrics?

[MillburyAuditorium]

You need to read this thread...http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/e...h-complex.html

GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED. You are doing more harm them good, no matter what you leave them, being a new booth, new lightboard, or whatever else, you might as well leave them with nothing. All the gear that you buy will go to waste if no one is there to run it. You don't want to be getting phone calls about how to turn on the lights. If you do get those phone calls you have failed at doing what you should be doing. Take this time to train someone else, leave that as the gift from your class. If you really want to give a gift... go buy these dvd's.

Practical Technical Theater :: The Complete Solution for Technical Theater Classrooms

Yes, they are boring, yes my students hated them, but they do have good knowledge in them. They are at least a starting point.

People are not out there to get you. People are there to learn. Even if you think no one wants to do your job, someone out there do. They can do it just as well if not better then you. Don't get a booth built so you can have a castle to call your own. If there are not 3 people that can hang a light, plug it in, patch in, focus it, turn it on, and cue it when you leave you will have made the problem worse. Someone taught you, its time for you to do the same. Don't be the kid that knows everything, be the kid that teaches everyone what they know.

Sorry, I must not have said before, I of course am training other students for when I leave. I already have them and actually have been training them since last year. I made up with a little idea of a generation kind of thing, When I started with the lighting and sound there, it was all pretty new and fancy, but now of course it is not, And I want the three new guys, all 7th graders, one being my brother, who loves this stuff as much as I do, to have the same new equipment as I did when I started, And I hope that when they graduate they will do the same as I am doing now.

Of course I wouldn't just leave the school without anyone : )


And about the king/queen thing. I am partially offended by that, I am by no means thinking I am the only person who can do this, Anyone can when they know how, I simply ment that me and the other person are the only two people in the school who do know about theatrical sound and lighting, and if there are others, they have not stepped forward. I let my three recruits do most small events all by themselves. And I by no mesns what so ever think I know everything, I pretty much know little to non, I know whats in my schools theatre. That is why I am going to school for theatrical lighting. I could probobly learn alot from those DVDs myself.

I am sorry if I came off wrong to anyone.

[MillburyAuditorium]

You have mentioned the gel thing before and I'm not exactly sure why you think this would really help. Unless you have a quite saturated gel in the fixture getting a new lighter color would not help it to be seen. A saturated gel in any fixture will cut down the intensity, but it will not be a "dimming" effect if the fixture is efficient.

As far as new fixture advice I would suggest either pars or fresnels as down light, the trim of your electrics will factor into what type to get. For front light I would go for ERS units and I personally like ETC and once again your throw distance will factor into what degree to get.

Are you familiar with how to do photometrics?

About the gels, I really am not sure if it will help or not, But I got them for the front 16 spotlights, because we found with our last play, the color is great with the high power of the spots. But hey, if they work they work you know? I have never actually taken a close look at the color bars before besides to replace a bulb a few times, but they sort of look like just tinted plastic, because they were part of the original installation years ago, but if the new gels work, that would be great, if not, I will be looking into new color lighting soon. Do you have any particular fixtures you take in favor? As far as color lighting above the stage goes? Kind of looking for something that has all the color lights on it, not having to be individual fresnels with gels in them, Our current ones are jsut kind of, a long enclosure with above, with 18 bulbs and then the color plate, 6 of each color, red blue and green.

I'll look into some more downlight. As far as front light, I think our 16 spots covor it, the videos I showed made it seem like they dont, but you should of seen it, they were all moved all over the place, useally there are uniformly in an arch, correctly pointed down at the stage, so it is filled evenly. (Just something I rememberd that I thought funny, the 8th grade band kept complaining about the bright lights, which is mostly my fault for not moving them back after the play, so I had to keep them at like 12 percent, could barely see them, had to turn the Full Cycs to 80 and some proscenium (I really dont like proscenium for some reason, just makes it seem like lights are on, Maybe our proscenium houselights extend to much over the end of the stage?) to even see them. But then a week or so later a dance academy came in and the 5 year old dancers (Youngest they had I think) were prefectly fine with 60 percent and blackouts at the end :/)



Photometrics, I know it has something to do with beam width/length and what not. Thats why we have telescopic spotlights, played a big part in the last play we did actually.



Sorry, im long winded ^_^'

[NevilleLighting]

Gafftaper beat me to my reply when he said "The Express(ion) software is dead. ETC has not made a board with that software in about a year. The new consoles: EOS, Ion, and Element are FAR superior in what they can do. Express(ion) software was good and it's out there on a lot of machines, but trust me, if you can afford it you don't want to choose it over the new generation of consoles. They are far more powerful and much easier to use. You'll just have to learn a few new tricks"

He is very right. If you want to learn the software that is going to be in use for the next 10-15 years in professional theatres get the Element or Ion. If you end up in a place where you have to learn commands on the Express or Expression that learning curve will be much easier. The Element will have the subs you want but you really want to be learning direct channel input. Wean yourself off the submasters. They are quick, easy and really limited. Also, the Element uses the same basic language as the Obsession which borrowed its language from the old Strand Palette series. It's an industry standard that has been around for a while and is making a resurgance thanks to ETC's new consoles. For the sake of your education and the students coming after you, get something that is using industry standard language.

[fredthe]

Milbury,
I think the best thing you can do before you go any farther with any of your upgrades would be to get out and look at how things are done in some other theaters in your area. It seems from your posts that you've been working in an isolated environment, and may not have much to compare it to. Like others have said, we're here to help... but it might be good for you to get out and see why we can get so passionate in some of our responses.

Now, more specific points.

We have a professional that comes in from Leviton, who isntalled our system when the room was built, and if there was anythign wrong he would of told us.

OK, so I almost sprayed my drink all over my keyboard when I read this. As a thought, you might want to see if someone from the local ETC and/or Strand dealers would be interested in taking a look at your space, and making recommendations for lighting and console upgrades. True, they may come up with something way over your budget, but it might be a starting point.

We noticed the dark spot on day one, but there was nothing we could do about it except stay away from it. But pelase trust me on that the stage is always uniformly lit.

I may be missing something, but these two statements seem contradictory.

And, I have purchased new gels for the spotlights and the color bars above the stage, I will try them out next time I am at the school and see if there is any difference.

What color gels are you talking about? Most of the time, a gel isn't there to turn the light an obvious color, it's just there to give a certain "tone" to the light, such as warm, cool, etc.

I only suggested LEDs because I knew that you can clearly see them in daytime,

Most LEDs are virtually invisible in daylight. Can you cite a specific example?

If the new gels dont do anything I will look for a new fixture.

They may be doing exactly what they are supposed to do, it just may not be what you are expecting.

I am getting all 5 Drama directors from both sides of the school, Junior and Senior

Do any of these directors know anything about the technical side of theater, or do they just deal with actors? (Your other comments seem to indicate they don't know tech, just making sure.)

If I have any chance to, I will bring my camera to school and take some pictures.

And, we will look forward to seeing them.

But since I am the only one who knows about the topic, Its my job to figure out what is best to purchase and how to purchase it

I hope that your first goal is to get some good input on the "best to purchase" part. By comming here to CB, you are off to a very good start. But given the apparant state of you theater, you shouldn't be rushing to conclusions, based on a few days worth of comments. (Yes, everyone loves the Element in concept, but very few here have had their hands on one.)

When I get my case cleared, I will be ordering a demo of the Element.

I hope that by "case", you just mean the concept of a new board. If you start by proposing the Element (or, any other specific board) before a demo, then it will look bad if you then find a different board that better suits your needs.

(By the way, About my typing, sorry for the mistakes, I useally type very fast then go back and fix mistakes...)

Careful proofreading is definatly a good habit to get into. (One that I sometimes have to work at, also.)

Is there anything else anyone would like to suggest on the topic of lighting? Any specific fixtures or anything?

An idea of the size of your space woud be good. Personally, I'd like to see a couple drawings of the theater (plan and side elevation views) before recommending anything. At least pictures will help, once you get them.

-Fred (who was a horrible speller in High School, and still makes plenty of typos...)

[MillburyAuditorium]

Gafftaper beat me to my reply when he said "The Express(ion) software is dead. ETC has not made a board with that software in about a year. The new consoles: EOS, Ion, and Element are FAR superior in what they can do. Express(ion) software was good and it's out there on a lot of machines, but trust me, if you can afford it you don't want to choose it over the new generation of consoles. They are far more powerful and much easier to use. You'll just have to learn a few new tricks"

He is very right. If you want to learn the software that is going to be in use for the next 10-15 years in professional theatres get the Element or Ion. If you end up in a place where you have to learn commands on the Express or Expression that learning curve will be much easier. The Element will have the subs you want but you really want to be learning direct channel input. Wean yourself off the submasters. They are quick, easy and really limited. Also, the Element uses the same basic language as the Obsession which borrowed its language from the old Strand Palette series. It's an industry standard that has been around for a while and is making a resurgance thanks to ETC's new consoles. For the sake of your education and the students coming after you, get something that is using industry standard language.

Yes, I have decided on the Element, The software in a video I saw made me think the software I used on the Expression was simpler, but I have never sat down with the console so I have no clue about it. : )

[MillburyAuditorium]

Quote:
We noticed the dark spot on day one, but there was nothing we could do about it except stay away from it. But pelase trust me on that the stage is always uniformly lit.
I may be missing something, but these two statements seem contradictory.

What I meant by that is, besides that one play it is always uniformly lit.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Quote:
And, I have purchased new gels for the spotlights and the color bars above the stage, I will try them out next time I am at the school and see if there is any difference.
What color gels are you talking about? Most of the time, a gel isn't there to turn the light an obvious color, it's just there to give a certain "tone" to the light, such as warm, cool, etc.

Sheet kind, Well, when put in our spotlights, they were a tad but more than a shade.

Gel Sheet

[coolbeam]

For the love of (the deity of your choice, or none, should you so choose) STOP calling them "color bars." I don't give a rat's behind if that's what you, or anyone else, have always called them, you've been told that the correct term is STRIPLIGHTS. Theatre technicians use very specific terms for one reason: to aid in communication. Using a made-up or non-standard term is a sure way to identify yourself as a wannabe, and annoys those who know better. Likewise, there's no such thing as a "telescopic spotlight."

In the other thread you made mention of wanting new equipment for the younger generation like you had five years ago. It is ridiculous and frivolous to think of replacing any lighting equipment that is five years old, unless it was substandard (DJ quality) to begin with.

#1 What console do you currently have?
We have the Leviton Status
Status > Controls > Theatrical Equipment > Lighting Management Systems > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products
Its missing half of its slider caps, and it has some problems when programing, it also freezes after about 35 minutes of continuous use, like in a play, so we must switch from Scene 1 to Scene 2 then back to Scene 1, that flashes all the lights, so, thats not good either, and it doesn't have monitors, which we would love. We rented a used ETC Expression 3 this year because the internal battery completely died in the Status, and that I agree is major overkill to buy, but the Element, being made for small venues looks perfect.

Is the Status five years old as well? "Missing half of its slider caps" indicates the console has not been treated properly. "Because the internal battery completely died" seems repairing the existing would cost less than renting an Expression3, and certainly less than a new console. I thought you had a good relationship with your Colortran dealer?

The budgeting and acquisition of capital expenditures for a public school district is way above your level of understanding. It appears quite likely that neither an Element nor a Palette are warranted, in my opinion.

[MillburyAuditorium]

I only suggested LEDs because I knew that you can clearly see them in daytime, Most LEDs are virtually invisible in daylight. Can you cite a specific example?




Yeah its DJ lighting, but it uses LEDs, around 2:30 its shown on. But I have never seend LED stage lighting, so I dont really know about it. Thanks for warning me : )

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLb018hFso&feature=related[/media]

[MillburyAuditorium]

For the love of (the deity of your choice, or none, should you so choose) STOP calling them "color bars." I don't give a rat's behind if that's what you, or anyone else, have always called them, you've been told that the correct term is STRIPLIGHTS. Theatre technicians use very specific terms for one reason: to aid in communication. Using a made-up or non-standard term is a sure way to identify yourself as a wannabe, and annoys those who know better. Likewise, there's no such thing as a "telescopic spotlight."

In the other thread you made mention of wanting new equipment for the younger generation like you had five years ago. It is ridiculous and frivolous to think of replacing any lighting equipment that is five years old, unless it was substandard (DJ quality) to begin with.
Is the Status five years old as well? "Missing half of its slider caps" indicates the console has not been treated properly. "Because the internal battery completely died" seems repairing the existing would cost less than renting an Expression3, and certainly less than a new console. I thought you had a good relationship with your Colortran dealer?

The budgeting and acquisition of capital expenditures for a public school district is way above your level of understanding. It appears quite likely that neither an Element nor a Palette are warranted, in my opinion.

Sorry, I will call them Striplights from now on. And I have said that I now know the DJ quality lighting is out of the question. And no the Status is older than five years, it was not poorly treated, the caps come right off, ie, glue or whatever held them down had worn away. And it was more than just the internal battery. And the rental, wasn't really a rental we "borrowed" it for free for the year because he didnt need it till then.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Do any of these directors know anything about the technical side of theater, or do they just deal with actors? (Your other comments seem to indicate they don't know tech, just making sure.)

They know enough to understand why we should get some of the items I have mentioned. But no, or not that I am aware of, the don't know much of the technical side, but may of learned a few things from doing it over the years.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Sorry for making a bunch of different posts by the way.

I hope that your first goal is to get some good input on the "best to purchase" part. By comming here to CB, you are off to a very good start. But given the apparant state of you theater, you shouldn't be rushing to conclusions, based on a few days worth of comments. (Yes, everyone loves the Element in concept, but very few here have had their hands on one.)

Yes, I mainly came here because of the booth topic, but now that I know there are many pros here I asked some more questions, and some more to come. I have only seen one video on the Element, and from that it looks pretty good for what I want it to do. But like you have said, no one has had it hands on, but, Thats why I want to demo a few boards in our own venue, which ETC accommodates.







And everyone, Please read this or do not post any more on this topic.

We are by no means professional, we do not have to much money to spend, and we run it a lot differently than other places. I myself do not know much about theatrical lighting, thus, I am going to college for it, But I am the only person int he school who knows anything about it, so I do it. And I love doing it, It has been my favorite part of going to school since I started. Maybe I don't know correct lighting fixture names, That's why I came here. To learn, that is the main point of this forum is it not? The master electrician, stage manager, board operator, and lighting designer is wrapped into one job, mine, and all sound jobs wrapped into another job, the other person I run it with. We put on great plays that sell out every time by doing it the way we know how to do it.

[MillburyAuditorium]

I hope that by "case", you just mean the concept of a new board. If you start by proposing the Element (or, any other specific board) before a demo, then it will look bad if you then find a different board that better suits your needs.

Yes, case, argument, etc. And yes, I would first get a clear to order a demo of a few boards before making a concept of buying it.

[MillburyAuditorium]

An idea of the size of your space would be good. Personally, I'd like to see a couple drawings of the theater (plan and side elevation views) before recommending anything. At least pictures will help, once you get them.

I have been looking for technical drawings of the theatre since I started and I have failed at finding them :/ But if you look at the videos I posted a few pages back and compare to the size of props and people, you should get a good idea, for now until I can get some pictures. I think that when I get pictures it will change a lot of things, I am not the best at explaining :/ I will try to dig up some pictures from the internet, or my computer now.

And thank you for being nice to me. Everyone started somewhere : )

[fredthe]

Sheet kind, Well, when put in our spotlights, they were a tad but more than a shade.

OK, my writing may not have been as clear as it should have been... what specific colors (manufacturer/number) of gels are you looking to get?

-Fred

[kiwitechgirl]

About the gels, I really am not sure if it will help or not, But I got them for the front 16 spotlights, because we found with our last play, the color is great with the high power of the spots. But hey, if they work they work you know? I have never actually taken a close look at the color bars before besides to replace a bulb a few times, but they sort of look like just tinted plastic, because they were part of the original installation years ago, but if the new gels work, that would be great, if not, I will be looking into new color lighting soon. Do you have any particular fixtures you take in favor? As far as color lighting above the stage goes? Kind of looking for something that has all the color lights on it, not having to be individual fresnels with gels in them, Our current ones are jsut kind of, a long enclosure with above, with 18 bulbs and then the color plate, 6 of each color, red blue and green.

Look, don't get me wrong - I think that it's awesome that you're interested in lighting, and also that you're going to a school which specialises in performing arts so you can learn more. You're right, we all started somewhere and for a lot of us, I suspect that was at school - certainly was for me! I think what we're all a little concerned about is that while your motives are excellent - upgrading gear is NEVER a bad thing! - you may not have enough knowledge to make quite the right purchases, and so future generations may not benefit as much as you'd like them to. You never know when you're going to get a kid at the school who has a parent who is a professional lighting technician, or whatever....so I think what people are trying to make you see is that perhaps you need to enlist some professional help; coming here to CB is a great start, but it's very difficult for us to advise you having not seen your space. Whether you do things differently or not, you can always benefit from good advice. Find a local professional theatre and ask one of their techs to come look at your space and give you some advice as to what would best serve your needs. We often get requests of this sort from local schools and we're always happy to oblige. In the meantime, I have a couple more questions for you! So here goes...

What exactly are you expecting the gels to do - make your lights brighter? And why do you not want fresnels with gel in them - given that that is pretty much the industry standard way of lighting a stage (OK, not always fresnels, but generic units of one sort or another). The old-school method would use red, blue and green units to mix colour for front/toplight but mostly you'll find these days that that kind of colour mixing is limited mostly to cyc lights. If we want colour punch, we use parcans with saturated gel colours in them. So, in terms of fixtures that I favour for washing the stage with colour, my answer would be fresnels and PCs for general lighting, and parcans for colour punch.

[MillburyAuditorium]

OK, my writing may not have been as clear as it should have been... what specific colors (manufacturer/number) of gels are you looking to get?

-Fred

ooh, Well red, blue, and green. I was simply hoping that it would make the intensity of the color strip lights we have better because there are pretty much not noticeable unless no other lights are on. Basically our strip light is 18 halogen bulbs next to each other with a gel in front of each, in a pattern, R,B,G,R,B,G etc. And I was hoping on using the gels that I got for the spotlights that worked really really good, nice dark color and was very noticeable, in the two color strip lights we have to just see if it was the old gels in them that made the colors so faint. But if the gels we use for the spots dont work, either a new color strip light fixture, or just forget the strip lights and just get more fresnels with color gels.

[MillburyAuditorium]

What exactly are you expecting the gels to do - make your lights brighter? And why do you not want fresnels with gel in them - given that that is pretty much the industry standard way of lighting a stage (OK, not always fresnels, but generic units of one sort or another). The old-school method would use red, blue and green units to mix colour for front/toplight but mostly you'll find these days that that kind of colour mixing is limited mostly to cyc lights. If we want colour punch, we use parcans with saturated gel colours in them. So, in terms of fixtures that I favour for washing the stage with colour, my answer would be fresnels and PCs for general lighting, and parcans for colour punch.

I am expecting the gels I use for the spotlights, which I have said work wonderfully with the spots, will work with the strip color lights we have to make the color more intense because you cant even see it when other lights are on. And I was aiming away from fresnels and more at a strip light because the whole unit, with 18 lights would be on only one dimmer, and they would be right next to each other so it would be easier to color blend.

And when I say Full Cyc, I meant these, These are what gives most lighting to our stage, besides the spotlights. Don't know if I am using "Full Cyc" in the wrong way.
Far Cyc > Fixtures > Theatrical Equipment > Lighting Management Systems > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

I have been saying Full Cyc and not Far Cyc haven't I? ^^'

[kiwitechgirl]

Right - now I understand! Given that all 18 lamps of your striplights are on one single dimmer, they're going to be pretty low-powered and a new gel isn't going to make any difference to that, because you're simply not getting enough punch from the lights themselves. My advice to you, given this, is not to even try and colour blend the striplights; put one colour of gel in the lot of them and use that for a single colour wash. The reason the gel worked well in your spots is because they are much higher powered and produce a LOT more light. If you've got cyc units, use them to create a different coloured wash or two and then use your spots (presuming you mean profile lanterns, sometimes called Lekos) to bring in frontlight so the actors' faces are visible.

[gafftaper]

I want to once again stress that we are happy to help if you are willing to hang in there with us. We have a better feel for what you know now and will be happy to lead you through the steps to a better understanding of what you have and how to use it better. But we continue to need more information to really give you good advice. If you can just sit down with a pencil and sketch the space, use something like microsoft paint, or even give it a shot in Google's Sketchup (doesn't have to be 3-d... but it's a great skill for you to learn anyway). Just sketch a general layout of the room and write in distances that would be a huge help to this discussion. It's very hard to get any sense of scale from watching a video. Understanding distances is critical to understanding what you need.

Secondly take a camera and take as many pictures as you can: the auditorium as a whole, the stage, backstage, dimmer rack, light board, light fixtures, lighting positions. Give us a tour of the theater.

Not knowing what model of striplight you have and what it's max wattage rating is... you should look into if they can handle more powerful lamps. This would lead to separating them into three circuits (R, G, and B). Depending on how large of lamps you can put in this should help you get some color out of them and help with your downlight. At the high school I used to teach at, they were using standard 100 watt household lamps in the strips. I got the money to replace them with 100 watt halogen pars (like the kind you screw into an outdoor porch security light) they cost about $6 each so it was expensive but the increase in output was amazing. Half the light was being wasted traveling in all different directions, now I had a focused beam on stage.

Again is there anywhere you can go to in order to see how another facility does these things? You'll be amazed at what you can learn at your local community theater.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Right - now I understand! Given that all 18 lamps of your striplights are on one single dimmer, they're going to be pretty low-powered and a new gel isn't going to make any difference to that, because you're simply not getting enough punch from the lights themselves. My advice to you, given this, is not to even try and colour blend the striplights; put one colour of gel in the lot of them and use that for a single colour wash. The reason the gel worked well in your spots is because they are much higher powered and produce a LOT more light. If you've got cyc units, use them to create a different coloured wash or two and then use your spots (presuming you mean profile lanterns, sometimes called Lekos) to bring in frontlight so the actors' faces are visible.

Yeah, I was thinking it was the power. I have been looking and looking, and finally found this, I don't think its the same one we have, but its close. And this one has 8 instead of 18.
Altman Lighting, Co., Inc.
And that is meant for just white light. But when they were installed, color gels where put in them, so we don't have any real color lighting at all xD.

I will consider some permenant fresnels with gels.

And as far as the Far Cycs go, the only ones we have are two of these, so I dont think we can use them for color, and we need them because they supply most of the stage with light.
Far Cyc > Fixtures > Theatrical Equipment > Lighting Management Systems > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products


P.S. Before I go to fresnels with color, do you think something like this could substitute or do you think I would have the same trouble with brightness? As for cost I think it would be the same as buying two of these instead of 9 new fresnels, three of each color. I dont know if I need 3 sets of each color, but anytime I have done something with color I have done in sets of three :/.
Altman Lighting, Co., Inc.
But then again, I need to consider 16 25 dollar 4" roundels. Probably will be better to go with the fresnels : P


Sorry for two of the links, The site was weird, the URL didn't change even though the page did.

[MillburyAuditorium]

I want to once again stress that we are happy to help if you are willing to hang in there with us. We have a better feel for what you know now and will be happy to lead you through the steps to a better understanding of what you have and how to use it better. But we continue to need more information to really give you good advice. If you can just sit down with a pencil and sketch the space, use something like microsoft paint, or even give it a shot in Google's Sketchup (doesn't have to be 3-d... but it's a great skill for you to learn anyway). Just sketch a general layout of the room and write in distances that would be a huge help to this discussion. It's very hard to get any sense of scale from watching a video. Understanding distances is critical to understanding what you need.

Secondly take a camera and take as many pictures as you can: the auditorium as a whole, the stage, backstage, dimmer rack, light board, light fixtures, lighting positions. Give us a tour of the theater.

Not knowing what model of striplight you have and what it's max wattage rating is... you should look into if they can handle more powerful lamps. This would lead to separating them into three circuits (R, G, and B). Depending on how large of lamps you can put in this should help you get some color out of them and help with your downlight. At the high school I used to teach at, they were using standard 100 watt household lamps in the strips. I got the money to replace them with 100 watt halogen pars (like the kind you screw into an outdoor porch security light) they cost about $6 each so it was expensive but the increase in output was amazing. Half the light was being wasted traveling in all different directions, now I had a focused beam on stage.

Again is there anywhere you can go to in order to see how another facility does these things? You'll be amazed at what you can learn at your local community theater.

Hi there, Yeah As kiwitechgirl said, I think its the power. Could be that they are using to low power bulbs. If you go to the Altman sight I linked to, then products, then strip lights, then go to the bottom of that page and that is close to what we have. I will go ahead now and make a sketch of the auditroium, but I can't give correct measurments for now.

I called the school to see if I could come in this week to setup the board instead of next week, and they said they were buffing the floor so no. X_X Janitors and there floors :P So I will be in there with a camera hopefully next monday and give you a little tour.

As for going to another facility, I could go over to Saint Johns school and look at there auditorium, also I could ask the Hanover Theatre if I could have a little tour.

P.S. If you look at this video again, the red tint is from a front spot with a gel in it, on about 25 percent, and then at the end it gets brighter and the most noticable is the sighn that says Bedside Mannor gets bright, that is from the rear Full Cyc.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3NBRo_k_Q&feature=channel[/media]
(It is supposed to be dark in most of the videos on this play because most of them in a "T.V. show" and resetting props would of been way to hard.)

[MillburyAuditorium]

Okay, here's a really rough sketch of the theatre, sizes are not really correct but if gives a simple representation of the stage. I'm not the best at making images : P But it gives a sort of idea.

Here is the theatre (The spotlights go along the whole width of the stage and of course arent straight, but I kinda messed them up : P)
[media]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/kona20/theatresketch.jpg[/media]



Here are the lights above the stage. Couldn't fit it into the other pic.
[media]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/kona20/lights.jpg[/media]

[Wolf]

So is it a grid above the stage, not a fly system?

To start I would say you need many more instruments above the stage. It is standard to be able to divide the stage into 3 sections SL, CT, SR and also US and DS some people add a mid stage brake into the mix. If you go with individual lights (not strips) it would be standard to use 2 instruments (a warm and a cool), some people like to do a 3 color wash. For your purpose right now I would stick with 2. Even if you go with strips it is still standard to brake the stage into SL, CT, SR and DS, US. When using strips it all depends on what type you get, how many lamps they have, and their physical measurements. How high are you electrics/grip (depending)?

Far as front light goes it is also standard to split the stage into SL, CT, SR, US and DS. With a warm and cool for each area.

To help clarify what I mean by these areas. Not to insult you by any means but just incase you don't know
SR=Stage Right (standing on stage looking at the audience)
CT=Center Stage
SL=Stage Left (standing on stage looking at the audience)
US=Up Stage (farthest away from the audience)
DS=Down Stage (Closest to the audience)

Also it may take more than one instrument to light each area fully. We have 2 warms and 2 cools spaced out to just get SL and this is mirrored SR with only 1 warm and 1 cool in the center. This a crude diagram

SR ---1 2----3 4----5 6----7 8----9 10--- SL
.........w c....w c.....w c ...w c.....w c
............................CT

So 1-4 make up SR 5&6 are CT and 7-10 are SL. To save dimmers we two-fer the warms together SR and the Cools together SR and mirror that on SL but on separate dimmers.

With measurements we can even help you further, but you should also learn photometrics. Its done with A^2+B^2=C^2. So lets say to find a FOH throw distance. The trim hight is 25' and then its 30' to the object/area you are lighting. Subtract 5' from your trim height to factor in a person so 20^2 = 400. 30^2 =900. 200+900=1100. 1100 square root= 33, 33' is your throw distance to the object you are lighting. From there you would look on a manufacturers specs for a specific light and times (X) 33' by a given number. For example if it was a 36* ETC source four it is 33X.45=14'10" beam diameter, for the field diameter its 33X.63=20'9".

The beam diameter is where the light is 100% efficient and going from center of the light at 7'5" entering the field diameter is where the light out put drops to 50% efficiency and drops until there is no light left

[fredthe]

Thanks for the drawings, they certanly cover more than 1,000 words

I know you probably don't have exact dimensions, but it would help if you could estimate a few dimensions, such as:
- width and height of the proscenium opening
- depth of the stage- front edge to prosc. and prosc. to back wall.
- location of the FOH lighting position- distance from proscenium, hight above stage floor
- width of FOH pipe
- height of your lighting positions above the stage

You have far cycs, but do you have a cyc? or is it just a black drape at the back of the stage? It seems like they are not being used for their designed purpose.
Be sure to check out the details on the strip lights when you can, especially what bulbs you are using and what they can take.

One additional thing you will need to look at when considering adding or changing fixtures is how the dimmers are wired. Are they hard-wired to the electrics? If they are, you should let us know how many circuits/dimmers are on each electric. Also, are circuits hard-wired to dimmers, or is there some sort of patching arrangement?

Also, if you haven't been checking out other discussions, be sure to look at the one about using strip lights for top light.

-Fred

[MillburyAuditorium]

So is it a grid above the stage, not a fly system?

To start I would say you need many more instruments above the stage. It is standard to be able to divide the stage into 3 sections SL, CT, SR and also US and DS some people add a mid stage brake into the mix. If you go with individual lights (not strips) it would be standard to use 2 instruments (a warm and a cool), some people like to do a 3 color wash. For your purpose right now I would stick with 2. Even if you go with strips it is still standard to brake the stage into SL, CT, SR and DS, US. When using strips it all depends on what type you get, how many lamps they have, and their physical measurements. How high are you electrics/grip (depending)?

Far as front light goes it is also standard to split the stage into SL, CT, SR, US and DS. With a warm and cool for each area.

To help clarify what I mean by these areas. Not to insult you by any means but just incase you don't know
SR=Stage Right (standing on stage looking at the audience)
CT=Center Stage
SL=Stage Left (standing on stage looking at the audience)
US=Up Stage (farthest away from the audience)
DS=Down Stage (Closest to the audience)

Also it may take more than one instrument to light each area fully. We have 2 warms and 2 cools spaced out to just get SL and this is mirrored SR with only 1 warm and 1 cool in the center. This a crude diagram

SR ---1 2----3 4----5 6----7 8----9 10--- SL
.........w c....w c.....w c ...w c.....w c
............................CT

So 1-4 make up SR 5&6 are CT and 7-10 are SL. To save dimmers we two-fer the warms together SR and the Cools together SR and mirror that on SL but on separate dimmers.

With measurements we can even help you further, but you should also learn photometrics. Its done with A^2+B^2=C^2. So lets say to find a FOH throw distance. The trim hight is 25' and then its 30' to the object/area you are lighting. Subtract 5' from your trim height to factor in a person so 20^2 = 400. 30^2 =900. 200+900=1100. 1100 square root= 33, 33' is your throw distance to the object you are lighting. From there you would look on a manufacturers specs for a specific light and times (X) 33' by a given number. For example if it was a 36* ETC source four it is 33X.45=14'10" beam diameter, for the field diameter its 33X.63=20'9".

The beam diameter is where the light is 100% efficient and going from center of the light at 7'5" entering the field diameter is where the light out put drops to 50% efficiency and drops until there is no light left

Right, thanks for explaining photometrics and all, I will look up a book and learn a little more in depth about it.

And I knew I was forgetting something, yes we use flys, they are in wing stage left. That grid for the lights was kind of not correct, as far as what the fixtures are sitting on, the fixtures are on three separate flys. (I always forget to put in the speakers, but they are in the middle of the house facing the oposite door.). As far as areas go, we can actualy do it, the full Cycs are seperate, one is behind the second curtain one in front, so the front one fills most of the front for US, then the rear one for DS, then we make one fader contorl varius spotlights and fresnels to create a SR SL and CT. And we do have a SR SL and CT for the spots aswell. But the only thing we dont have for each section is warm and cool colors. Along with the hopefully new equipment I will ask for some new fresnels aswell to add warm and cool to each section and then main ones.





I think the only real use, besides partys before shows begin (xD, good times.) , we have gotton out of the color strips is one time we had to make our stage "sink", was a boat sinking scene, and personally, I think it was the best effect I have ever done :D Flashed all the lights a few times then all lights out except a faint blue light and flashing red for an emergency light, occompinied by the sirens from the sound op, was great.

[soundlight]

Oh my, oh my.

You need a lot more fixtures over your stage.

Also, the "far cycs" that you are talking about really aren't designed to wash they stage - they're designed to wash a backdrop.

You should really look at just getting a boatload of fresnels - just some good ol' Altman 65Qs - 20 would be a good number to get rolling. These will be your top light - 2 or 3 bars of either 4 or 5 pairs of fixtures per bar. Lamp @ 500 watts with BTL lamps. That way you can put 4 fixtures per dimmer if you need to. I couldn't tell you exactly how many you should look to get without dimensions of the stage and trim heights of your electrics.

In terms of colors, RGB really only ever gets used for lighting cycs and in LED fixtures, and in old R40 strips - which are what you seem to call "color bars" or "color strip lights". The warm/cool lighting explained by Wolf is really what you want to do.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Thanks for the drawings, they certanly cover more than 1,000 words

I know you probably don't have exact dimensions, but it would help if you could estimate a few dimensions, such as:
- width and height of the proscenium opening
- depth of the stage- front edge to prosc. and prosc. to back wall.
- location of the FOH lighting position- distance from proscenium, hight above stage floor
- width of FOH pipe
- height of your lighting positions above the stage

You have far cycs, but do you have a cyc? or is it just a black drape at the back of the stage? It seems like they are not being used for their designed purpose.
Be sure to check out the details on the strip lights when you can, especially what bulbs you are using and what they can take.

One additional thing you will need to look at when considering adding or changing fixtures is how the dimmers are wired. Are they hard-wired to the electrics? If they are, you should let us know how many circuits/dimmers are on each electric. Also, are circuits hard-wired to dimmers, or is there some sort of patching arrangement?

Also, if you haven't been checking out other discussions, be sure to look at the one about using strip lights for top light.

-Fred

I'll try estimate some distances best I can

- width and height of the proscenium opening- The proscenium lights we use are the same ones we use for house, and if the house lights are on, so are proscenium because they are part of the house lights. The ceiling is tierd downward but then, level with the last row row of seats the ceiling goes upward, and the house lights on that upward slant part are also slanted, pointed at the stage. So, there is about 10 lights in each row, theres two rows, adbout two feet between rows and 2.5 between lights I estimate. So from the start to end of the slant about 11 or so feet.

- depth of the stage- front edge to prosc. and prosc. to back wall.
The front of the stage starts under the second row or proscenium lights, so from the fist row to the front edge of the stage about 1-2 feet. From the prosc. to back wall I would say about 25 feet? Not to sure on that.

- location of the FOH lighting position- distance from proscenium, height above stage floor. Hard to say, since the walkays slant down to the stage. I would say about level with stage. Because where the light desk is is before the floor slants down, It may be level. Distance from the proscenium I really have no guess. Proscium is right at the end of the last row of seats though.

- width of FOH pipe. I dont know what that meens. Sorry. :/

- height of your lighting positions above the stage. Do you meen the fixtures above the floor? They are level or a half foot or so lower then the top of the flys, level with the curtain top, so maybe about 10-12 feet, not to sure.



The description of the Far Cycs we have say "..to uniformly light a large area.." Wich they do pretty good. And at the back of the stage is a curtain, the same one as the one in the middle of the stage, to cover the conrete wall and passage way.

And for the strips, we dont use them at all unless the show calls for colored lighting, they all have color roundals in them, so unless we need color they arent used. I will take a good look when I am there to see if I am using the right bulbs, Pretty sure. I will also try to find the booklet that describes most everything about the theatre, including lighting fixtures installed.

[MillburyAuditorium]

Oh my, oh my.

You need a lot more fixtures over your stage.

Also, the "far cycs" that you are talking about really aren't designed to wash they stage - they're designed to wash a backdrop.

You should really look at just getting a boatload of fresnels - just some good ol' Altman 65Qs - 20 would be a good number to get rolling. These will be your top light - 2 or 3 bars of either 4 or 5 pairs of fixtures per bar. Lamp @ 500 watts with BTL lamps. That way you can put 4 fixtures per dimmer if you need to. I couldn't tell you exactly how many you should look to get without dimensions of the stage and trim heights of your electrics.

In terms of colors, RGB really only ever gets used for lighting cycs and in LED fixtures, and in old R40 strips - which are what you seem to call "color bars" or "color strip lights". The warm/cool lighting explained by Wolf is really what you want to do.

Okay, Yeah, We could use some more fresnels, so as I said, I will ask for some of them as well. Is there anywhere you can buy them without bulbs included? We have many many maaany extra bulbs, and the school backs up bulbs 100%, so I can ask for bulbs after, because another 4,000 to add isnt to good xD.

[NickJones]

Most come without lamps, unless you ask nicely, but you have to make sure you have the right lamps for the fixture you are looking at.
Nick
Ps, have a look at the glossary entry for Bulb

[fredthe]

I'll try estimate some distances best I can

Sigh... I don't seem to be doing too well in commumicating. Let's start with some definitions:

Proscenium - the wall that seperates the stage form the audience

FOH Pipe (or FOH Lighting Position) - Where the lighting instruments on the audience side of the proscenium are hung.

I made a quick drawing, hopefully it will clarify things.

Oh, and don't forget to tell us how power gets from the dimmers to the instruments.

-Fred

[MillburyAuditorium]

Oh, sorry. ^^'

Each fixture above the stage is plugged into the bar they are hanging from, the output wires are numbered, as well as the sockets on the other end. Then the wires are ran through the wall, which I have no clue how it was done since the walls is concrete. There are no wires going into the dimmers, unless they are going through the stage floor. If not the floor, the wall behind it then. Its quite confusing actually how the wires are routed.

All rough estimates of course

FOH pipe to Prosc. About 11-12 feet.

Hight of FOH Pipe to stage. About 12-13 feet.

Height of proscenium opening. About 10-11 feet.

Depeth behind prosc. About 21-24 feet.

Width of the foh pipe. About 22-25 feet.