Control/Dimming - Help me pick a console!

[JLNorthGA]

I used a Smartfade ML for a rental show a couple of years ago. It would probably suit your needs nicely. I used it to control a couple of LED towers, some PARs, some ellipsoidal instruments (Altman as I remember). I think a total of 20 instruments. It worked. It all depends on what your budget happens to be. Personally, I prefer something a bit more programmable.

[Pie4Weebl]

to move quickly, though! If we get it in on this year's budget, we might get it--they don't like giving extra budget back to the school division at the end of the year.

I'm looking at ETC SmartPack 12 channel + road case for dimming. I'm renting one for Graduation in 2 weeks anyways, we'll see how thing go with that.

We do not presently use movers, but I do rent things on occasion--and I think I want to leave that option open if we are getting a new console.

Needs: 16 channels or better, "bump" on each channel, programmable chase.

Console choice:

ETC ML or ETC 1296.

Any opinions on Zero 88 consoles?

Thanks!

Let's be real for a moment, if you only are getting 12 channels of dimming now, what you really want is one of these: Leprecon LP600

[dantemclean]

Let's be real for a moment, if you only are getting 12 channels of dimming now, what you really want is one of these: Leprecon LP600

Interesting suggestion. Similar to what we are using now.

I do want more dimmer channels available. We occasionally rent gear.

Presently I have 8 channels of dimming (2 x 4 channel shoebox). However, have rented enough to use 16 in the past. I did not use the Lightronics for that, have never used 9-16 on it. I used a USB --> DMX setup on my old Toshiba laptop. I have switched back to Mac, and can't get the USB --> DMX dongle (Entec Open DMX) to behave with the Mac. I rolled over the Toshiba to a student (stage crew kid) who needed a computer, so I still have access to it as needed to run lighting. In fact, we are using it to run Grad this year. The only thing I do not like about the DMX --> USB software is that "manual bump" is impossible to use when lighting the band. So ... I don't use it for that. It is useful for things like Grad, etc, where there are only fades between "scenes."

I will put that on the quote request, too.

Thanks!

[Pie4Weebl]

With that desk you can use more than 12 dimmers, you just have 12 "handles." So say you have a backwash of 4 dimmers that can all be on one fader, you can patch them all together.

And if you occasionally rent "toys" rent a smart fade or ion with, though I've defiantly run LEDs off those desks before. And they will outlive any other piece of gear in your rig too!

[TechGeek]

I run a small children’s theatre. I must admit my theatre tech knowledge is very limited. Currently we do our shows in our high school’s mini-theater. The lighting system is very simple, three banks of lights controlled by a dimmer switches on the wall. I recently discovered a DMX input on the wall and was told connecting a light controller would override the wall switches. Since we are a small community theatre, with limited funds I’m considering purchasing a Chauvet Stage Designer 50 DMX Lighting Controller. I basically need to turn the lights on and off, adjust intensity, isolate separate or group of lights and pre-program the board so I can accomplish each change with a push of a button. Will this board serve my purposes? What are its limitations? If we move to a larger venue would this board still be useable or would I have to buy something more robust? If you believe this board is not suitable any recommendations that are not thousands of dollars.

TIA
Paul

I would use ETC Element. From what I understand is you want to make some submasters with your common looks, some groups, and you want to be able to use it if you become larger. Element comes in different forms:
Element 40- 200
Element 40- 500
Element 60- 200
Element 60- 500

the 40 and the 60 is the number of submasters you have, and the 200 and 500 is the amount of channels. you get 2 universes of dmx. Also if you want you can get a Remote Focus unit so that you can remotely control everything away from the console. With the 60 version you get some Masters and you can also get 60 submasters when you turn a knob.

[TechGeek]

Looking to upgrade our console. We currently have an ETC Express 72/144 which is a great board but we are starting to out-grow it. We have recently added moving lights, which the express does not handle well, and other DMX devices like color scrollers and strobes. We love our ETC board and get great support from local companies so we have decided to stay in the ETC family (plus we don't have to worry about conflicts with our current system). We started looking at the ETC Ion but the ETC Element also caught our eye as a cheaper alternative.

We are wondering if anyone can explain the differences in the two boards so we can decide if the extra cost on the Ion is worth it. I've read ETC's website but they don't have specific enough information.

Here's what we have:
-1600 seats
-188 dimmers
-160+ conventional lights (almost all have been used for a single show)
-10 Chavet Qspot 250 Moving lights (13 channels each- yes, I know...they suck. Not my choice)
-12 Apollo 7.5 color scrollers (4 channels each), will be adding to 24 soonish.
-2 Atomic 3000 strobes (4 channels each).
-DMX hazers and a handful of other DMX f/x devices.

- Show needs: We do 1 musical and 2 straight shows a year (all recorded cues). We do 2 "rock" concerts a year (cues and submaster effects), and 2 combos (shows that need full stage conventionals plus all the flashies....these are the biggens with cues in both A/B and C/D faders, plus subs and sub effects). We also do choir/band concerts and assemblies that we run off of submasters only.

- Our current console can handle 240 channels and our most recent big show more than filled this (I had to patch multiple dimmers to a couple channels to fit everything)

- Submasters are a must so we cannot buy just the Ion without sliders. We run the majority of our events live.

- Budget is a concern but both consoles are eventually affordable, its just a matter of how long it takes to save up.

- We are still upgrading/adding equipment so we need something that allows for some growth.

- Moving light functionality is a big plus. Our current system blows for this and is one of the main reasons we are upgrading. We run all of our moving light shows live (not recorded cues...those are used to run specific patterns but still operated live) ease of live use is a big concern.

I hope this is all the info people need to help. Please, feel free to ask any questions and thank you for any ideas.



Jason Stoll
Assistant Technical Director
Neenah High School
Neenah, WI

I would actually do Congo Kid or Congo Jr. Congo Kid is only about $6,000 and Im not sure how much Jr is.

[chausman]

I would actually do Congo Kid or Congo Jr. Congo Kid is only about $6,000 and Im not sure how much Jr is.

Hey, welcome to CB! Take a moment to introduce yourself in the New Members forum.

You might also want to pay attention to the post dates. This thread has been around a while, and the last two posts you have replied to are almost three years old, and both users haven't been online in over a year.

[TechGeek]

Hey, welcome to CB! Take a moment to introduce yourself in the New Members forum.

You might also want to pay attention to the post dates. This thread has been around a while, and the last two posts you have replied to are almost three years old, and both users haven't been online in over a year.

thank you..... and oh...

[jsusfrk100]

I am also searching for a new console. I have been looking at a Eurolight LC2412 (it fits our price bracket) but have seen some negative comment of these forums that have made me wary of it. Is there another desk at the lower end of the price range that might suit us?
One possibly minor point. The cheaper desks seem to concentrate on the provision of chases. I am working in theatre mode and rarely use chases, though there are times when they do fit a particular scene.
Denis

What kind of lights will you be using.

[chausman]

What kind of lights will you be using.

Hi jsusfrk100, Welcome to CB! Why don't you take a moment to introduce yourself in the New Members board! Also, you may want to note the post date when replying to a thread. The post in question is from three years ago, and the user hasn't been active in just as long.

Again, Welcome!

[shaunb]

Hi, Im new to this forum and this is my first post. thanks for all the great reading and advice so far.
I own a small production company who focus primarily on smaller events, gala dinners, conferences etc. We have been using an old Worx lighting desk which is great for the simple dmx dimming and creating scenes however we recently started adding moving lights to our list of kit and this is definately not the right desk.
Our current lighting includes;
4x follow spots source4
24x LED Pars (would like to upgrade to 48)
4x Britec LED moving Spots (would like 8)
4x Britec LED moving Floods (would like 8)
and around 8 other DMX controlled LED effect fixtures used mainly for "disco/dancing"
usual smoke/hazer for enhanced lighting effects

I have been looking at smaller (easy to move yet powerful) desks and our local SA suppliers have recommended 3 options;
Avolite Titan Mobile, Martin M2PC, ETC Congo Kid.

In terms of the local market, South Africa has a huge freelance base most of whom work on the Titan Touch. Id love the Touch but its out of my budget range.
So far I am steering toward the Avolite because of aftersales service, then the M2PC. Both of which i'd purchase with a 23" Touch screen with built in PC, complete with flight case.

While I love set routines, events need to have the ability to improvise and change quickly on the fly or busk.

Is there anyone who could offer advice on the Titan mobile verse the Martin M2PC?
Many thanks

[TechGeek]

Hi, Im new to this forum and this is my first post. thanks for all the great reading and advice so far.
I own a small production company who focus primarily on smaller events, gala dinners, conferences etc. We have been using an old Worx lighting desk which is great for the simple dmx dimming and creating scenes however we recently started adding moving lights to our list of kit and this is definately not the right desk.
Our current lighting includes;
4x follow spots source4
24x LED Pars (would like to upgrade to 48)
4x Britec LED moving Spots (would like 8)
4x Britec LED moving Floods (would like 8)
and around 8 other DMX controlled LED effect fixtures used mainly for "disco/dancing"
usual smoke/hazer for enhanced lighting effects

I have been looking at smaller (easy to move yet powerful) desks and our local SA suppliers have recommended 3 options;
Avolite Titan Mobile, Martin M2PC, ETC Congo Kid.

In terms of the local market, South Africa has a huge freelance base most of whom work on the Titan Touch. Id love the Touch but its out of my budget range.
So far I am steering toward the Avolite because of aftersales service, then the M2PC. Both of which i'd purchase with a 23" Touch screen with built in PC, complete with flight case.

While I love set routines, events need to have the ability to improvise and change quickly on the fly or busk.

Is there anyone who could offer advice on the Titan mobile verse the Martin M2PC?
Many thanks

I would recommend the Etc Ion which runs about 6,000 dollars and up depending on the model that you want. Personally I would not use the Congo kid for this but it does work with your setup but Ion can support programmable fader wings and Congo kid can't. Ion is good for moving light, LEDS and convectionals and special effect. So Congo would be my personal choice. Also ETC sells DMX nodes so you can get more universes over Ethernet.

[techieman33]

By the time you include the size and cost of the touch screen computer, a pearl tiger isn't out of reach.

[chausman]

The Ion (IMO) also isn't really the best for busking, or "on the fly" editing.

[DuckJordan]

out of the choices listed for someone who's primary use isn't built cues, I'd go with the M2, its a great little device and expandable just make sure to use a PC Dedicated for lighting (no internet, no network, nothing other than windows + the software for M2).

[icewolf08]

While you mentioned that the console that many other people are using in your area is a little out of your price range, there is an advantage to getting the hardware that your friends/colleagues use. If you have problems you have a large base of people to call for help, it means that the rental shops probably carry it so that if yours breaks, you can get another. Just a couple things to keep in mind.

[Pie4Weebl]

Hey Gang-
I am looking for a console for a music venue, I have a budget of 10K tops (but they'd like less). I'm gunning for an M1 but wondered what other options might be a good fit. I need to make some things blink and other things wiggle, nothing too crazy.

[chausman]

Busking Live shows every night, or the same show for a long run?

[JCarroll]

I think an M1 would be a great fit...
Maybe even an M2Go or an MA OnPc node plus enttect wings.

[JohnD]

The first thing that springs to mind would be a MA on PC command wing and an all in one touch screen pc, BUT with out the fader wing not really an option, but it is a nice dream.
How about a hog, a well loved old hog that has sired many fine piglets(old farm boy, excuse me). For that matter how about a hog4?
Road Hog 4 Console
Then you could always get down, get funky and go RETRO with an Obsession II.
ETC Obsession II Console 4600 channel system | Used Lighting - Used Stage & Theatrical Lighting Equipment, LED Lighting, Trussing
The big question is, are you sometimes going to be driving this rig?

[techieman33]

A Pearl Tiger would fit in there as well.

[JCarroll]

By Tiger, I really hope you mean tiger touch. The pearl tiger is a total pain, the tiger touch on the other hand is an excellent console.

[Pie4Weebl]

chase.... it would be different shows every night, you know, like most concert venues are.

John, I'm going to be the guy on the desk most of the time, so as funny as the thought of getting an obII for a concert venue is, I think I might go for something more traditional. I wonder what the Roadhog 4 goes for? Or what the tiger touch comes in at?

An MA2 fader wing would be in the budget range...

[JohnD]

Here is a gearsource listing for the roadhog:
Road Hog 4 Control Console

[Pie4Weebl]

Here is a gearsource listing for the roadhog:
Road Hog 4 Control Console

Well Snap. The PM was talking about doing that and I think that may be the way to go. The owner wants a perl, but that seems like a poor choice for an all mover rig.

[JohnD]

It looks like a tiger touch is at the top and beyond your budget.
For Sale - AVOLITES TIGER TOUCH - Listing Detail - SoundBroker.com
Avolites Tiger Touch

[Pie4Weebl]

It looks like a tiger touch is at the top and beyond your budget.
For Sale - AVOLITES TIGER TOUCH - Listing Detail - SoundBroker.com
Avolites Tiger Touch

Funny, most of those listings are for more than I've been told the console goes for new.

[Pie4Weebl]

Ended up going with a RH4.... now I just gotta deal with an elation show designer till it gets delivered...

[JohnD]

Ah, but which elation show designer is it, 1, 2 or 3. To be honest, before I posted the idea of the Obi Wan of consoles, I thought of suggesting getting a bunch of DJ controllers, instead of dimmer per circuit, you could have started the trend to controller per fixture.
Please keep us posted, and also, what things do you have to blink, and what things to wiggle, why were they chosen and was it a good choice?

[Pie4Weebl]

Ah, but which elation show designer is it, 1, 2 or 3. To be honest, before I posted the idea of the Obi Wan of consoles, I thought of suggesting getting a bunch of DJ controllers, instead of dimmer per circuit, you could have started the trend to controller per fixture.
Please keep us posted, and also, what things do you have to blink, and what things to wiggle, why were they chosen and was it a good choice?

First show was last night, Rusted Root:


The installer (not me) installed 12x no name LED wash movers, 12x ADJ Vizi Beam 5Rs (sharpie knockoff) and 12x Chauvet LED Intimidator Spot 350s.

The install was done by night club people, who are morons, so I am trying to shift stuff around to make it more concert friendly (their original plan had the US truss being 6 of the sharpie knockoffs...) For concerts I've started using the LED spots over the dance floor as a wall treatment and have been pretty pleased with it, the gobos while limited in quantity, are a good selection. My next step is going to be doing T-bars down over the stage with some of the beam fixtures to break up the look more and moving two more wash fixtures to the US truss.

Its an elation show designer three which is kinda killing me, and I can't wait for my hog to arrive!

[TechGeek]

Your gonna love the Hog 4!
With me being a High School kid I didnt know how to use Hog. I went to my local dealer and got training on the Hog 500, I was there for a few days. One day they got a Hog 4 demo board in, I think I peed myself when I saw it. I picked up the Hog system very quick and easily.

[techdude311]

Use ETC as they are the easiest to use.

[TechGeek]

ETC may be the easiest but they dont work for all set-ups. If your running something like a concert you could use the Congo but its expensive! Also for the price that it runs for you can just get a HOG.

[MSNubie]

I am a Middle School teacher and the "technical director" of our drama department. We are using an old Melange Pro light board with 6-DDS6000 packs. We have 24 channels (I believe) and 37 old incandescent fixtures. We run plays and musicals from a small stage that feeds out to the gym. We pre-program the light cues and run them back from the internal memory. No moving lights. The board is ready to be replaced. I saw the dmx-lator and was told that we could get a new board and that it should be seamless. I was also told that the Leviton MC 7000 series would work and can hook up to our old lights and offers dmx512 for new ones. I really don't know what the budget would be, I am in the data collecting stage. I am new to this all and really don't know enough to make an informed decision (but I am trying to learn). Any insight would be great.

[Skyquake]

Im new to consoles/softwares but willing to learn. Im a mobile DJ with 40 rgbaw led par lights, 14 moving lights, 6 rgb lasers, strobes, and 10 other miscellaneous DMX lights. I dont know if its possable but id like to be able to mix into a track and have something that is smart enough to recognize that and go into show that i have programed specificaly for that song (automaticaly i hope). or if not then something that i can select and activate myself while DJing. Somehow it has to work with laser drawing software (or actually be that software itself). I need a visualiser to make the light shows (without using the actual lights). Id like to do everything from a laptop (if possable). Any suggestions would be appreciated

[LBCSeattle]

I am a Middle School teacher and the "technical director" of our drama department. We are using an old Melange Pro light board with 6-DDS6000 packs. We have 24 channels (I believe) and 37 old incandescent fixtures. We run plays and musicals from a small stage that feeds out to the gym. We pre-program the light cues and run them back from the internal memory. No moving lights. The board is ready to be replaced. I saw the dmx-lator and was told that we could get a new board and that it should be seamless. I was also told that the Leviton MC 7000 series would work and can hook up to our old lights and offers dmx512 for new ones. I really don't know what the budget would be, I am in the data collecting stage. I am new to this all and really don't know enough to make an informed decision (but I am trying to learn). Any insight would be great.

Looking at the specs of the Melange Pro and the 7000 series, I think you would be moving in entirely the wrong direction. Fewer channels, no VGA monitor, no soft patch, no macros... Is the current console failing in some way?

A point of clarification: unless you are getting intelligent fixtures (LEDs, movers, etc.) lights do not use dmx, so that is not necessarily an issue. Do you mean the current console outputs dmx? If that is the case, you should be able to plug in any dmx console. Your dimmers are dmx compatible, so that is not an issue.

After that, the real question is what is your budget and what do you project for the future (i.e., next 8-10 years)? Is there power available for additional dimmers? Will you be expanding your inventory, buying new dimmers? Adding a couple LEDs need little to no additional power (they don't use dimmers), but do require additional control channels (3 or 4 per fixture, minimum). Who are your operators and what opportunity do they have for training?

There are a lot of basic consoles out there that are more than adequate to handle a small set-up like yours. I don't have any personal experience with them, but Zero88 and Leprechaun make some good, modest consoles that are probably better suited to theatrical applications (though more expensive). If you have features like complex cue timing, blind editing (altering cues without them showing on stage), tracking, soft patching, etc. it makes a huge difference for programming. In a teaching situation (I used to teach high school technical theatre) it is great to have something with a screen display so you can see what is actually happening.

See this CB collaborative article: http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Col...Used+Equipment for sources for used consoles.

[bishopthomas]

I'm working on a proposal for an installation and am not familiar enough with small consoles in order to spec it. It's going to be 4-6 lekos and 4-6 LED's at a maximum of 7 channels each. So if I'm looking at a basic NSI or Leprecon then I'm already at 48 channels. I need something that I can pre-program where some seniors can press a button or push a fader and make stuff happen. Definitely no computers! It needs to be small and inexpensive as well. Thanks!

[derekleffew]

ETC SmartFade ML. Not necessarily inexpensive, but probably the most bang for the buck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lwinters630]

I need something that I can pre-program where some seniors can press a button or push a fader and make stuff happen.

If you are talking seniors as in the over 65 and not high school, then I would think very simple. I do not like the smartfade ml or lepricon although both offer a lot, for a senior they are far to complex.

As a simple board I like the ETC express 48/96. Yes I know it has been around forever, but it will do the job well, simple, and very easy for a senior to slide up a few channels, hit record and be ready to go. or just run some subs. Very inexpensive.

[JCarroll]

This is the first time I've ever heard a Leprecon called complex... I'd have to second the Smartfade ML, or even a regular Smartfade. You could program it to just run as submasters and it's a small board.