Abandoned Light Booth

[soundoff]

The drama teacher at my HS is much more interested in acting than tech. Last year for our musical we hired out to have a technical director. While he was setting the lights, he "temporarily" moved our ETC 24/48 to the FOH position next to the sound board on the worlds crappyest table where it has sat since then. To facilitate this change ( i was just told to make it work) i attached a DMX extension to the control cable and threw it out the window. i then routed it across the catwalk and down to the mix position. It looked terrible! then the TD decided to run lights from this position for the duration of the show. so now the light board is in the back of the house with the sound guys. then he wanted the clear com head end down by the lights. all the CC jacks terminate in the booth, so more ghetto extensions being run out the window and across the catwalk to the already crowded sound mix position. now we have the majority of the tech crew taking up almost the whole back row of seats in our tiny theatre, calling cues, and ect.
The booth has remote controls for house lights and other permanant lighting elements (curtain lights and flourecents) as well as the CC jacks, and DMX termination. Now that the tech director hired for the musical is gone, our drama teacher insists that the setup must stay the way he left it. She wants this mess to become permanent. In the mean time she has allowed the english dept. to take over the light booth and fill it with file cabinets and papers.Is it a good idea to permenantly move the light board position to the back of the theatre, and abandon a room that was built for this purpose?

-Max

[Les]

You might look in to whether or not those cables are up to code, being rigged the way they are. If not, you're in business! they will either need to get the cables properly routed through conduit or put the board back where it belongs!

[Footer]

Speaking as a former Performing Arts High School Technical Director.... Leave it down there. The reason she wants it down there is so she has more control over you during the tech process. Its much easier to keep your eyes on everyone when everyone is in one place. I made the mistake against my better judgment to allow 2 of my lighting students to program the lighting console from the balcony of our black box for one show. After the first day of tech the console was moved down to the house with me. At opening the console went back upstairs. Leave it in the house and stop arguing about it. If she wants it left that way, it should be left that way. Its her job to make sure everyone is accounted for and everyone is doing what they need to be doing. Keeping control of 40 High School students while trying to put up a production at the same time is a hard enough task as is. Don't push it.

[soundoff]

Hey thats a good idea! Im 100% sure they are not up to code, especially since it was meant to be run this way for a few days then put back. on the other hand, the school really doesn't care about the code (unforunatley) we have many open splices, im hard pressed to find an extension cord with a ground pin still intact. we have a massive pull box with no cover that feed the elecs. Outlets with no covers, and light switches that have been smashed off the wall but still need to be used to energize work lights and constant circuits. All our instruments have asbestos wires, and are Electro Controls or Century from early 70's. (newest instruments are a few S4's) Sadly, I don't think anyone will care if the job is not up to code. they mostly operate on the "make it work" principle at my HS.

-Max

[soundoff]

Footer,

I agree with you, but the the booth was the only place where the lights were run for 38 years. It was just last year that the man she hired put the board down by the sound guys so he didn't have to run up 2 flights of stairs and walk thru a boiler room to get to the light booth (it wasn't even her decision, he just moved it without asking her) Frankly, we goof around more when we are all next to each other. We have a tight bond at my school and the reason we are on tech is because she trusts us it is by audition only. She also trusts us with her keys and to be in the theatre when she is not. And finally im only arguing her judgment because she told ME to "figure it out" how the wiring will be set up to permenantly leave the board down by sound, and i want to do a decent job. but i think there is no way to do this up to code and still spend ziltch. Plus she wants to totally abandon the booth, and NEVER use it again. her exact words.

-Max

[Footer]

Footer,

I agree with you, but the the booth was the only place where the lights were run for 38 years. It was just last year that the man she hired put the board down by the sound guys so he didn't have to run up 2 flights of stairs and walk thru a boiler room to get to the light booth (it wasn't even her decision, he just moved it without asking her) Frankly, we goof around more when we are all next to each other. We have a tight bond at my school and the reason we are on tech is because she trusts us it is by audition only. She also trusts us with her keys and to be in the theatre when she is not. And finally im only arguing her judgment because she told ME to "figure it out" how the wiring will be set up to permenantly leave the board down by sound, and i want to do a decent job. but i think there is no way to do this up to code and still spend ziltch.

-Max

If its just a few cables running down the wall... there is nothing code wise that is going to stop you from not moving it. Also, just because its been that way for 38 years does not mean you can not change it at year 39. I hate that excuse, its used far too often. Take all the cables, bundle them into a nice clean loom, and drop them down. If it takes that long to get to your booth, I think its a good thing to keep in down there.

[cprted]

Footer,

I agree with you, but the the booth was the only place where the lights were run for 38 years. It was just last year that the man she hired put the board down by the sound guys so he didn't have to run up 2 flights of stairs and walk thru a boiler room to get to the light booth (it wasn't even her decision, he just moved it without asking her) Frankly, we goof around more when we are all next to each other. We have a tight bond at my school and the reason we are on tech is because she trusts us it is by audition only. She also trusts us with her keys and to be in the theatre when she is not. And finally im only arguing her judgment because she told ME to "figure it out" how the wiring will be set up to permenantly leave the board down by sound, and i want to do a decent job. but i think there is no way to do this up to code and still spend ziltch. Plus she wants to totally abandon the booth, and NEVER use it again. her exact words.

-Max

Honestly what difference does it make where the board is? I know of a theatre where the lighting board isn't even in the auditorium. The LX tech sits in a closet in the basement pressing go and watching the show on CCTV.

[soundoff]

Ok, but i have them bundled as neatly as i can now and it still looks pretty bad. there not going just down a wall, its over a large lip type thing, and then taped on to the professionally done audio whip. I would also like to point out that the only reason that she wants to leave it down there is because she thinks the man she hired is god. she is under the impresion that this is why his lighting looks so good, its not for discipline. he does a good light show, but makes such a god awful mess. he knoked over the shelf with all the gels and never picked it up. the reason the man put the board down there was for his convienince. she believes that his lights look good because of this, but really its because he put some thought into them. she usually just turns on the board puts all the faders at 100 with a 1:1 patch and uses what ever is up there. any gel and position. my last point is the cabinet the shop dept. built to hold the board in this new position is literally the worst thing I have ever seen. its 10' deep, and they want to remove seats to put this thing in. second, it has a folding top that actully obstructs views, and lastly SHE PAINTED IT LIGHT BLUE!!!

[Footer]

Honestly what difference does it make where the board is? I know of a theatre where the lighting board isn't even in the auditorium. The LX tech sits in a closet in the basement pressing go and watching the show on CCTV.

This is a High School, not a professional house. The two are not even close to the same ballgame. It matters because it is a student operating the console. That student is the responsibility of the teacher in the room at the time. If anything goes wrong with that student, its the teachers rear that is on the line. No teacher should ever completely trust a student to not do something stupid.

[soundoff]

I don't know how to explain this any better than I am. My cause for concern was not discipline of the students. Mrs. R hasn't had a problem with students being in a booth away from the theatre ever. thats NOT why she moved the board. my cause for concern is that we are handing over an architectual element of our theatre over to the english dept. to be used as a storage room. The whole position change was based on a misconception between a hired light director and our drama teacher who really doesn't know much about lights. You being a teacher know about the politics in a school. we may never get the booth back. Mrs. R is like 2 years away from retiring. I din't want a permanent change to be done half-assed, especially if its not neccesary in the first place.

-Max

[shiben]

Quite frankly, I dont mind running lights from the house, and would prefer it in your situation. To me, it sounds like your booth was in a hellish position, if you have to sneak through a boiler room to get to it. The only person that really needs to be not in the house is the stage manager. If the light blue table is a problem, ask her if you can paint it black to make it look more professional. Not hard, and you probably have cheap black paint sitting around. Just remember to ASK before you do anything. As to the hanging cables, find out if you can install some d-ring brackets, if it does comply with code in your area, to dress them around the ledge. Spray them black before you screw them into the wall, and your good. Rickety table a problem? Ask the set guys if they have a drill-driver, 2x4s, and screws. Reinforce as needed. 10' deep?!? I find that doubtful. That would mean that they actually had to rip down a THIRD sheet of plywood in order to get it built like that (assuming they ran the 4' section along the depth). Even so, if they seriously joined multiple sheets of plywood together to build something of that size, they must have had a reason. If you can, take a photo of all relevant issues, and we can look at them. I highly doubt that there is any issue that you have that you cant fix fairly easily, and that would require returning to the booth.

Edit:
my cause for concern is that we are handing over an architectual element of our theatre over to the english dept. to be used as a storage room.

Bulls***. Your worried that the teacher is making what is in your opinion a dumb move, and pissed that you lost your booth. Get used to it. One of our theaters has been taken over by the music department, and they built a cage in the middle of the backstage, and a rack blocking one of our lighting storage racks. They changed the lock so I cant get into that space's booth. It sucks, especially when I need to call security so that I can adjust the com set. But really, things happen, and even tho they suck we deal with them. Things like this happen, especially in educational settings. One of the guys on here has a very interesting thing in his signature, which effectively says that s*** happens, and our job as techs is to fix it. The more I work in tech, and for more people, I am finding this to be true. I do not mean to be a total jerk here, but having had similar things happen at my previous job, its a good thing to get used to. This situation doesnt really seem that bad. I would recommend making the best of it and learning what not to do, if it really is that bad.

[soundoff]

Dude. lights in the house? there calling follow spot cuse with a ticket holding person sitting less than a foot away. It just bugs me. your right the table in more likley only about 7 or 8 feet deep, but its still huge and wildly inappropriate you its use. and to answer your question, no it was never designed much more than "hey shop kids! build us a table that will hold somthing with these dimensions" 2 months later the worlds worst table comes out of the shop. I would also like to add that to get power to this section of the theatre an orange extension cord (SJO) is being taped across an isle! yes you heard right it crossed an isle in the theatre.

-max

[soundoff]

dude, your totally right. i understand now. not my choice no matter how much it pisses me off. oh well, i guess ill just have to do a nice job on the install back there, and ask district for a permanent outlet. Thanks guys i just got a little flustered when i heard this news today. lots of memorys in that booth. we worked really hard my freshman year to get it back from the english dept. cleared for almost 3 years now.

-Max

[shiben]

Youll be fine man. Crappy situations are pretty normal, and youll learn to deal with them, we all have (and still are). It might help to look at the situation as a challenge. Try and figure out how to make it great with the situation you have. This has worked for me several times in some terrible situations, and actually can make the experience fun (go figure). The permanent outlet, thats a good call tho.

[soundoff]

cool, thanks guys. I highly doubt the district is going to split the slab in their theatre to put in an outlet, but do you guys have any better solutions than an extension cord across the isle?

-Max

[tjrobb]

This is being fixed as part of an upgrade, but we had to run all the data and power to our sound bay (in-house) across an aisle. We got a small rug (think commercial door mat, 3x2), set it over the cables where they crossed the aisle, taped the rug to the floor with WHITE (key) gaff, and then added hatching (like a crosswalk) to the rug itself. Makes it visible, unlikely to shift, and our Fire Marshall has no issues with it (it was like that for years).

If you attempt this, there are 3 key points: WHITE gaff tape (make it visible), WELL secured to the floor (trip hazard, especially in a panic), and CHECK WITH YOUR AUTHORITIES!

Hope this helps.

[shiben]

Is it an option to drop it with the other stuff? I have done that in some instances, and run a 12/3 heavy insulation cable with a hard jacket (some version of SO... Whats the water resistant one?) and that worked nicely, but thats more of a temporary solution. A yellow jacket (similar to this, but they make them not so big Miscellaneous Electrical Supplies ) would work really well. Im not sure about that as a more permanent solution, but its better than gaff tape and no rug, especially if its not a theater-grade cable. The above solution would work as well, but I personally prefer something hard, and if its ADA compliant, even better.

[soundoff]

i guess i could drop a cable, even if its against code, they have MUCH bigger fish to fry in our theatre. Kinda seems like our always theatre turns into an electrical free-for-all. I like the rug idea, but that is what we are doing now. could i potentially (with permission, of course) tap off the isle light circuit? its a 20A breaker and all it has on it is 4 or 5 little 10w bulbs. we have a very small theatre (250 max cap.) only problem there is is someone turned off the isle lights FOH would go down. could put in one of those key switches?

-max

[cprted]

Honestly what difference does it make where the board is? I know of a theatre where the lighting board isn't even in the auditorium. The LX tech sits in a closet in the basement pressing go and watching the show on CCTV.

This is a High School, not a professional house. The two are not even close to the same ballgame. It matters because it is a student operating the console. That student is the responsibility of the teacher in the room at the time. If anything goes wrong with that student, its the teachers rear that is on the line. No teacher should ever completely trust a student to not do something stupid.

I agree with you 100%. The point I was trying to make was that the lighting board doesn't need to be in a lighting booth or anywhere specific and can in fact be anywhere and then cited an extreme example of the lighting board not being in a lighting booth.

Given the description of the existing booth given by the OP, the teacher's decision in this case seems like a good one--cable aesthetics aside.

[cprted]

i guess i could drop a cable, even if its against code, they have MUCH bigger fish to fry in our theatre. Kinda seems like our always theatre turns into an electrical free-for-all. I like the rug idea, but that is what we are doing now. could i potentially (with permission, of course) tap off the isle light circuit? its a 20A breaker and all it has on it is 4 or 5 little 10w bulbs. we have a very small theatre (250 max cap.) only problem there is is someone turned off the isle lights FOH would go down. could put in one of those key switches?

-max

Unless you are a licensed, certified electrician, do not attempt this.

[LightingPenguin]

Probably could get your maintenance team to do it, assuming they have an electrician on staff. Check the codes first though

[soundoff]

im glad i brought this up even though i was really argumentative in the middle of the thread. i had never heard of running lights from the house exept when you are aiming them and building cues and scenes. i will try to work with what ive got and do my best. i guess it just seemed to me like you would naturally run lights from the booth but if we are all together we can run more fluently. we really just used to use com for that but now were less than 2 ft. away from sound guys. I will be removing the back row of seats this saturday (as per request of director) from our thearte to put in the monster table. ill take some pics so you guys can see how terrible this thing is. we'll make it work though. we always do!

-Max

[LightingPenguin]

im glad i brought this up even though i was really argumentative in the middle of the thread. i had never heard of running lights from the house exept when you are aiming them and building cues and scenes. i will try to work with what ive got and do my best. i guess it just seemed to me like you would naturally run lights from the booth but if we are all together we can run more fluently. we really just used to use com for that but now were less than 2 ft. away from sound guys. I will be removing the back row of seats this saturday (as per request of director) from our thearte to put in the monster table. ill take some pics so you guys can see how terrible this thing is. we'll make it work though. we always do!

-Max

Just a note, its common practice to move the board from the booth for high schools. My school does it, and I know many many other schools that do as well. It allows easy communication between the people you need to talk to, as most people are not in a high school booth because they don't all fit, or it just doesn't work. Even if you're two feet away, the com can still be used by your SM to manage backstage and trouble shoot if something foes wrong, so its not like your com system is useless now.

Also if by "we" in " we used it to talk to the sound guys" is the lighting board op, why were you talking to them over coms anyway? I'm just curious.

[DuckJordan]

maybe its just south dakota but i have never heard of anyone taking the light board, which for us is just a computer with a horizon box run on the parallel port. Now as far as our theater is done which is a high school theater, the director who used to be our old technical director can actually sit in the audience and tell us what lights should go on. Along with students being in the booth there is no reason that a student who is not responsible enough to act like an adult near expensive equipment should be even close enough to read anything on the board itself is a bad idea. also if its anything like our theater we are not the only ones who use the space and putting a piece of equipment where people who have no idea how to use it in easy reach is again another bad idea. THAT is how things get broken. Yes i am only 18 and have only had four years experience in a theater setting but its fairly common knowledge you let idiots near complicated equipment its going to get broken. the only reason i could ever see the lighting console to be in the audience is if you have no booth what-so-ever or for demonstration purposes. The booth is designed to keep the equipment there not out in the house where people can see the techs.

[LightingPenguin]

While my booth is also within easy hear shot of a director, it allows us to see the stage from a different perspective. Atleast for me, I somewhat prefer it when doing tech day or cue-cue. It lets me see it how an audience would see it, instead of behind glass from a booth farther away than the audience. For the actual shows we move it back to the booth, so we're not sitting in the audience, no exceptions

Now, as for the equipment part. If you have equipment in the house, and people can simply access that, I agree you have an issue. If we leave the board in the house, that theatre is locked up. Period. No "students staying late with the door locking behind them". The door is locked, there is no one inside.

If you're house is accessible to a random student who has no idea what the equipment does without supervision from a teacher, I think it should be moved or the theatre should have better security.

the director who used to be our old technical director can actually sit in the audience and tell us what lights should go on.

For this, our schools are different. While our director asks us to give him some light, its our design. He's not dictating to us what lights to turn on. And being in high school we don't have a separate person on board and the designer in the house. The reason I move the board down is so I can be like your director, seeing what I want on and off, levels, etc etc. If your director is designing your shows, it makes sense for the board not to move, he has the right perspective from where he wants it and can simply call up.

[DuckJordan]

its not so much as students but rather principals that think they know what they are doing or have the idea oh well hey we paid for it we can use it how we want. but as soon as we say we need something replaced because another teacher broke the equipment its complain about how we never keep our stuff in good condition. also with our booth we have a sliding glass window and we are only located 2 feet above the audience on the main level and about 10 foot below the balcony so we are actually in the best spot in the house as far as lighting and sound goes. although the overhang of about 10 foot ends up acting as a sound trap.

[LightingPenguin]

Still, there are instances for theatres/converted spaces where it makes sense, but its a different case for each theatre

[photoatdv]

My high school moved our booth downstairs my freshman year partially because of audio issues and partially because of what they caught techs doing in there the year before. At first I TOTALLY hated it... then realized it was actually more convenient. I almost ended up using the old booth for the video I was going to do on a show last year because I needed to be able to talk to my crew, but decided I'd rather setup more tables behind lighting/sound because I didn't want to be where I couldn't see very well (the booth is ~30' up)... then the video got cancelled for the show.

I know what you mean about teachers seeing the pros as second only to God. That happened ALL the time at my school. I'd suggest something, the teacher would say it's the crazy, one of the pros would go up and ask the SAME THING and it was BRILLIANT :-S. I was really mad at first, then it just became a big joke between us. We even did it once where the TD said the EXACT SAME word as I did and same result :-).

[gafftaper]

I just want to point out that although this feels really lame to you, the process of figuring out how to make it all work is an excellent educational opportunity for you. Not only is it a good chance for you to really get into how your system works, it's also teaching you to be flexible and not be territorial... two common high school technician problems.

As for the power situation. I wouldn't run sound off of power stolen from an aisle light circuit. There's a potential for creating issues with the power that could make your sound system buzz, humm, hiss, or just plain sound bad. Also it's possibly against code since you are messing with a safety feature of your theater. (and as was said above don't try anything like that yourself get a real electrician!) Use good cable under a well taped and well marked floor mat.

[venuetech]

My space has both a control booth and a control bay the bay is in the back of the house and every one must walk around it to get to their seats. both lighting and sound are run from the bay, the booth is only used by the stage manager when calling a large show. this was all in the original 1985 design of the facility but we have expanded a bit for the lighting desk. the amp racks are in the booth but can be remotely powered on/off from the bay.

I might suggest that what you need to do is to find other (theatrical) uses for your booth. a work bench for fixture repair. color cabinet, lamp cabinet, audio cabinet. drafting table, plotter, soldering station, tool storage ..etc.etc. keep a space open for your SM to call the show. any and all spare equipment that it is in need of a secure spot should go into there. anything that you do not need daily

[00AVD]

The schools I've helped out at usually have had teachers that mean well, but don't really know much at all about lighting and sound. Some of the bizarre things I see them do (because they saw someone else do it) makes me shake my head at times. Personally, in a school situation where there is a booth, I'd rather see it being used as intended, not as someone else's store room.

Without a picture of the seating & booth areas it's hard to say what's right in your situation. I'm guessing that school politics comes into play in the US just as much as it does over here. If you're just a student, let the staff organise the situation. Surely they can't expect you to do it all.

[soundoff]

Also if by "we" in " we used it to talk to the sound guys" is the lighting board op, why were you talking to them over coms anyway? I'm just curious.

We used to talk to them because our director really likes music to fade out when lights are brought up. She uses alot of sceene shift music.

If you're house is accessible to a random student who has no idea what the equipment does without supervision from a teacher, I think it should be moved or the theatre should have better security.

Sadly our house is never locked. ever. and yes everything is just out in the open in the back now. We had some crown PCC's stolen last year from the sound position. no one seemed to care when i brought it up. by the way, at my HS im the ONLY tech person besides one other person.

[LightingPenguin]

Sadly our house is never locked. ever. and yes everything is just out in the open in the back now. We had some crown PCC's stolen last year from the sound position. no one seemed to care when i brought it up.

You need to lock your theatre, somehow. Having boards and equipment just sitting on a table in the back of the house where anyone can get it at anytime is inviting disaster to come and destroy it all. Talk to the administration about this, sometimes talking to a principle can help. Having a lockable door is an important thing to have

[Studio]

My school has always kept equipment in our booth both sound and lighting. When our auditorium was built they wired inputs into the floor in the back of the house, however we never used them because our massive sound craft series two and light board would be too much work to move in and out of the booth because about 50% of our staff has keys to the place and it is always left unlocked.

It all boils down to security and ease of use.

If your theatre is always unlocked then go for the booth.

If you have problems with what goes on in the booth give the staff member in charge a headset or convince another teacher to be the TD and stay in the booth.

[Tex]

I don't have a problem with control in the house. Footer's right; never underestimate the ability of a teenager to stop thinking and do something not very smart. (I love and trust them, but I'm still going to watch them...)
What I can't believe is that a theatre teacher gave away storage space! Is she nuts? If there's enough space to cram in a chair or step unit, it's mine!

[Esoteric]

Whenever I work with schools we always move the console into the house for tech (it is just stupid to try and design a show from 99.9999999% of light booths) but we always move it back for performance. I have worked in community theaters though where the board is in the house. If there is a booth I would always rather use it though, why would you want an SM sitting at the back of the house having to deal with the inevitable crises that come up during a run within earshot of the audience? Sounds dumb to me.

I am with Tex as well. In my time as a High School TD, I was stealing storage space from every other department!! The only thing I can think of is someone in the English Department (why does the English Department need so much storage space anyway???) has pics of the theater director and the principal in a compromising position.

Mike

[NickVon]

as has been mentioned by other i'll also second.

Sounds like you have a Teenglish teacher. English teacher that that thinks they are a Tech.

that said when teching shows and writing cue for our theatre I absolutely toss dmx and power over the balcony and run and program from in the back of the house. The reason is you get a feel for the look of the lights from the audience perspective which is usually very different form the location of the control booth. Basically for the same reason that on Broadway and large venue shows Audio control is mixed from the center of the house.

In the middle of the week however when we have classes that happen during the day of our production week you can bet that the light board disappears upstairs or to the greenroom for storage. I'm not going to let the five thousand dollar peice of theatre critical equipment sit out in the open. Either for students to screw things up on it, break it, or spill food and drink on it (despite the no food in theatre rule :-()

I agree with the OP regarding the look of proffesionalism that having this kinda of setup can work against. Somtimes it's just the case though. My real concern after doing this for a little while would be for the safty of the equipment and your patrons first, "looks, second."

That said OSHA does have a website and a contact number for calling in violations.....and it sounds like you have some dooseys if you want to put some heat to the fire under your school board. From everything you've set it doesn't seem like the building is safe for professional technicians much less high school students.

[soundoff]

I agree with setting the lights from the house, but she wants to run them from the back of the house for the performances forever. The english dept took over the booth, because one of the rooms you go thru to get to it (before boiler room) is the english dept. office. ill take pics.

-max

[waynehoskins]

I'm all for running lights in performance from an isolated booth and cueing from in the space.

But in this case, from what little I know, I think I agree with the faculty decision.

To get to your booth, you have to go through a department office and a boiler room. The English department can't lock their office, and Maintenance can't lock their boiler room. I don't like that from a liability and security perspective.

[masterelectrician2112]

I'd suggest something, the teacher would say it's the crazy, one of the pros would go up and ask the SAME THING and it was BRILLIANT :-S. I was really mad at first, then it just became a big joke between us. We even did it once where the TD said the EXACT SAME word as I did and same result :-).

That is hilarious! That's very good that you learned to just accept it as a fact of life though. I am very very blessed that the drama teacher/director also makes an awesome technical director. She has taught me much about technical theatre.
Our booth is a professionaly built two-part cabinet with space for the light and sound boards. It is in the back of the house, but it is also away from the audience and they don't have to walk around us to get to their seats. It has 4 locks for the entire thing, and it is always locked. I think it is a good solution because the space is defined so there are no unauthorized personnel, if you will.