What do you hate about your light board?

[CSCTech]

Nope, never. Odd I know But the thing is a piece of garbage anyways. But never had it freeze. Maybe because we do things manually? I just move all the channels with fixtures on them down so I can have all fixtures on the channel fader since the board has only 48 control channels and we have 96 dimmers, so if not I cannot use the fixture, and have all houselights on 48, Proscenium 47 and stairs 46. After those are all patched I make the subs I need and go from there.

Unless you can count this, But I do not know if this is supposed to happen or not-

I do not use cues because-
If I make a cue, any cue, doesn't even have to make a light change, if I move the scene faders up to activate the cue, I no longer have any intensity control. The faders, bump buttons and keypad itnensity control is locked out until I flip the switch to 2-Scene then back to Multiscene.
I kind of want to try 2-Scene to see how hard it is xD

But yeah, unless that isnt supposed to happen, then never had it freeze.

[Morpheus]

When I take the tape off, the VIS is still there

[Tex]

When I take the tape off, the VIS is still there

LOL!
Try paint thinner...

[MarhabanMicah]

At my high school, we have an ETC Expression 1. It's very old-we got it the year I was born. It also has a click wheel. A neighboring high school has the new Ion, which after their tech senior graduates will get absolutely NO use. I feel bad for one of the freshman, who shows a great deal of interest in lighting. It's a shame that he won't have a good lighting board to learn off of, considering the way that lighting is headed in a new direction.

[CSCTech]

At my high school, we have an ETC Expression 1. It's very old-we got it the year I was born. It also has a click wheel. A neighboring high school has the new Ion, which after their tech senior graduates will get absolutely NO use. I feel bad for one of the freshman, who shows a great deal of interest in lighting. It's a shame that he won't have a good lighting board to learn off of, considering the way that lighting is headed in a new direction.

I know how you feel, I hate teaching people on our Status, I keep getting off into side things about normal boards

[chris325]

I know how you feel, I hate teaching people on our Status, I keep getting off into side things about normal boards

I know exactly what you're talking about. Me: "And here is the floppy disk drive..." My 'apprentice:' "This thing uses floppy disks?!?!" And then it froze.

The track ball, floppy disks, and pretty much everything else about the Innovator 600 make it look pretty pathetic when compared to a modern board.

I've gotten used to working with the oldest and most expensive computer in the school district. So have many others on here, I'm sure.

[SHARYNF]

It is sad that some of the younger folks here seem to get so negative when they are working with "vintage" gear. In High School and even College, you are learning how to learn and concepts. Does it really matter that the device uses a track ball vs a mouse? is it really that big a deal that it uses a floppy disk vs a memory stick?

It seems that unless you are working with the very latest and most expensive gear, there is little interest. Technology moves quickly but the underlying concepts don't, if you go on professionally you may very well find that if you get into smaller venues some of these vintage boards are still around doing excellent productions.

Just remember that the latest and greatest today is going to be vintage in the near future, so you are continually going to need to understand concepts
vs a specific system this way by understanding how thing work and are designed, when you are faced with the next generation you will be able to learn how to use it properly

It is just like flying, there are a lot of jet/turbo prop pilots who learned on a Cessna 150

Sharyn

[zuixro]

We have an Expression with Emphasis, and the only complaint I have is that it's not a Ion. I know the Express(ion) line really well, and I'd like to learn something new.

[mstaylor]

Well put Sharyn, too many want to throw away perfectly good equipment because it has some age on it. I work in several different theatres in my area, two have Expresses, one has an Expression, one has an ION and three still have EC two scene presets. I can do an excellent production with any of them.

[CSCTech]

Well, I kind of sort of not really like our Status. But the thing is, it's half broken We can't even use two-scene mode so anyone I teach I have to teach using only subs to run shows, and with the, pretty much no features of the Status, it seems kind of useless. But I suppose it isn't really because like you said its all about the concepts. I have mastered the Status inside and out I could program it and run the show blindfolded so to speak. And I just have a good general knowledge of theatre. If you can do the basic functions of the Status or any old board, you can on any new one.
The only difference between say, our Status and a..Expression 3 is that the software is just simply better so it doesnt die every two minutes (lol) and a few features. It's all looks and hardware really.

I WISH my board had a floppy drive. Where the heck do I find a PCMCIA card or something ?_?

[Jackalope]

We just got a light pallete live (strand) so far all I've mastered is the on/off switch and programing looks and cues in "cue only" mode. Anyone else have any pitfalls I need to look out for/avoid?

[Morpheus]

It is sad that some of the younger folks here seem to get so negative when they are working with "vintage" gear. In High School and even College, you are learning how to learn and concepts. Does it really matter that the device uses a track ball vs a mouse? is it really that big a deal that it uses a floppy disk vs a memory stick?

It seems that unless you are working with the very latest and most expensive gear, there is little interest. Technology moves quickly but the underlying concepts don't, if you go on professionally you may very well find that if you get into smaller venues some of these vintage boards are still around doing excellent productions.

Just remember that the latest and greatest today is going to be vintage in the near future, so you are continually going to need to understand concepts
vs a specific system this way by understanding how thing work and are designed, when you are faced with the next generation you will be able to learn how to use it properly

It is just like flying, there are a lot of jet/turbo prop pilots who learned on a Cessna 150

Sharyn

I agree... At my college, as a senior member of our tech crew, it sometimes falls on me to help newer people understand some of the general concepts... I'd MUCH prefer showing them how to use our mackie 1402 VLZ than the new M7 we have.

Same with our light board (the Vision): It's a great thing to learn with, especially after you get used to the expression 2 (again, high tech we've got)... at least it teaches you to be on your toes!

[billn]

[QUOTE=CSCTech;164048]I do not use cues because-
If I make a cue, any cue, doesn't even have to make a light change, if I move the scene faders up to activate the cue, I no longer have any intensity control. The faders, bump buttons and keypad itnensity control is locked out until I flip the switch to 2-Scene then back to Multiscene.
I kind of want to try 2-Scene to see how hard it is xD


Does the board have A/B and C/D cross faders? If so, make sure you load the cue stack into the C/D fader stack, not the A/B.
On many boards, if you load the A/B stack and try to run a cue, then the channel faders etc are locked out - all that will work are the submasters. Bill

[billn]

The two theatres where I do most of my lighting designs use the EDI Bijou. There are two primary things that I dislike:

1) You cannot record/link effects to cues, only submasters.
2) Unlike the predecessor board, when editing a cue, you cannot use the channel faders to grab a level and bring it down. All reductions in level have to be done via the keypad.

Bill

[gcpsoundlight]

Someone else has probably already said this, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE JANDS EVENT!!!
Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!

Enough Said!

[LekoBoy]

and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!

DBO button? Doesn't every board have that?

[DuckJordan]

Someone else has probably already said this, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE JANDS EVENT!!!
Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!

Enough Said!

that button would be the BO light most boards have them if they don't they are very low end and probably weren't designed to be used in a theater venue.

[gcpsoundlight]

None of the strand desks have one, and I don't think that they would be classed as "Low End"

[Les]

This may be true (haven't used a Strand board in a long time) but it's not an uncommon feature on any board, even low-end ones. My $150 American DJ DP-8A had a blackout button. Then, so did the Expression 3 my high school had, as did any other light board I've worked with recently. Very few uses for such a button -- when do you really need a sudden blackout? Wouldn't you just program it in to a cue? If a cue misfired and you needed a blackout for a scene change, wouldn't it just be better to slide the GM? It's still not an uncommon feature to see.

[chris325]

Well, it's not much more difficult to just press 1 [THRU] 400 [AT] 0 [ENTER]. Or, when programming, bring up a previous blackout cue.

Although it does surprise me that Strand doesn't have blackout buttons on any of its consoles. Not a show-stopper, but it just seems odd.

[Les]

Well, it's not much more difficult to just press 1 [THRU] 400 [AT] 0 [ENTER]. Or, when programming, bring up a previous blackout cue.

It's a little more difficult to do that

When I'm programming an ETC Express/ion and I need a full blackout cue, I just hit the clear button above the faders (takes the console out of cue) and then record that as the next cue. Works for me and it's easy.
I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."

[Anvilx]

I'm a little confused why you have to use the OE to edit your cues on an express. I understand the labeling portion but why the editing?

Wow I have not followed this thread!

You have to use the OE if you want to edit and take something out. You can add things to a cue on the console you just can't remove anything without deleting the cue and starting over.

[chris325]

I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."

I'm pretty sure (at least on an Innovator 600) that you can't use the blackout button to record a blackout cue. However, I believe that the GM does alter the contents of the cue being recorded (i.e. pulling it to 0 for a blackout.) It's been almost a month since I've used it, so I may be wrong.

[masterelectrician2112]

Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!! Enough Said!

Yup, that would be your BO button, and I couldn't imagine the express without one! As of yet, only one show has been run on that board using cues. I usually run everything off of submasters and individual channel faders. I need that blackout button. .1 seconds! I know I can't slide the GM that fast!

[Les]

Yup, that would be your BO button, and I couldn't imagine the express without one! As of yet, only one show has been run on that board using cues. I usually run everything off of submasters and individual channel faders. I need that blackout button. .1 seconds! I know I can't slide the GM that fast!

My goodness, why don't you write cues?!?

[mstaylor]

Sounds like he is old school like me. I have never written a cue list on an express or expression. I'm an old two scene guy and am used to not having the luxury.

[Morpheus]

It's a little more difficult to do that

When I'm programming an ETC Express/ion and I need a full blackout cue, I just hit the clear button above the faders (takes the console out of cue) and then record that as the next cue. Works for me and it's easy.
I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."

I just tried it on the ETC EOL...
it records as if the GM is at full...
HOWEVER, you can press [Enter][Enter] to select all the currently captured channels, and then use the wheel/trackpad....

[chris325]

HOWEVER, you can press [Enter][Enter] to select all the currently captured channels, and then use the wheel/trackpad....

Would this work on an Innovator 600?

[Morpheus]

Would this work on an Innovator 600?

I don't know.
Apparently, my laptop's Operating System is not 'adequate' for the Innovator Off-Line editor.
(Apparently, someone at Levitron needs to get Windows 7)

Anyway, this is something that you should be able to test your self, just find the Off-Line software.
Innovator Series > Entertainment Lighting Controls > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

[thelightguy87]

i just started designing at a high school that built a new theater. And they put in an express 12/24 with emphasis. Although it doesn't bother me too much, being that i only do 1 show year on it. The one thing that bugs me the most is that there is no hard button for Dimmer. I use an express 72/144 at my regular theater, and i'm so used to having the dimmer button next to the channel button. Instead its Channel and Fixture. and the Dimmer button became a soft key. Other than that its been a good console for us so far. They've only had it for 3 years now.

[Tracyu]

The two theatres where I do most of my lighting designs use the EDI Bijou. There are two primary things that I dislike:

1) You cannot record/link effects to cues, only submasters.
2) Unlike the predecessor board, when editing a cue, you cannot use the channel faders to grab a level and bring it down. All reductions in level have to be done via the keypad.

Bill

Hi Bill,
If you want to tie an effect to a cue on the Bijou you can write 2 macros (one to load the effect to a sub and one to unload it) then go to the cue list screen and assign the macro to the cue you want the effect active in and then assign the second macro to the cue you want it off. Make sure the effect sub is up.

Unless you are using the CF all the bijou's outputs are HTP.

If you ever need any help with the Bijou, feel free to give us a call here at the factory (503) 645-5533

Tracy Underhill
EDI

[chris325]

I don't know.
Apparently, my laptop's Operating System is not 'adequate' for the Innovator Off-Line editor.
(Apparently, someone at Levitron needs to get Windows 7)

Anyway, this is something that you should be able to test your self, just find the Off-Line software.
Innovator Series > Entertainment Lighting Controls > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

Apparently, someone at Leviton also should consider investing in Vista. The Innovator's offline editor wasn't compatible with it. I'll try this little trick the next time I use the board itself.

[DuckJordan]

as far as not compatable all of windows stuff is backwards compatable, you just need to select to run in (x) operating system, if i remember right you can run in xp, 98, or 95 mode just the individual program.

[Morpheus]

as far as not compatable all of windows stuff is backwards compatable, you just need to select to run in (x) operating system, if i remember right you can run in xp, 98, or 95 mode just the individual program.

right click -> detect compatability issues


And it seems the levitron works the same way.

[kiwitechgirl]

More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."

The Strand 500-series desks have an option in the setup screen (IIRC!) which says something like "GM level affect RECORD" and you can switch it on if you want it....very useful.....

However, our 520 has just been replaced with an ETC Ion and the only two things I'm not loving right now are:
1. The ability to alter an effect specific to one unit - if I have all the Macs doing circles, I can't make one do smaller circles to avoid set/audience/whatever within that effect - it has to have its own effect which specifies a smaller circle. The 500-series desks could do that with ease....although I believe this is something a future software upgrade will hopefully include.
2. The lack of a DMX in. We often used to hook up a "handles" desk for plotting sessions with certain designers who liked to be able to shove faders - it's not a huge deal but it'd be nice.

Other than that the Ion is proving to be all we hoped it would be!

[masterelectrician2112]

My goodness, why don't you write cues?!?

Sounds like he is old school like me. I have never written a cue list on an express or expression. I'm an old two scene guy and am used to not having the luxury.

I have used cues for one show so far. I would actually love to use cues for every show! The TD/director/drama teacher doesn't want me to program cues and somebody else run them because she believes that the less inexperienced techs need to know what happened and what had to be done when you pressed the GO button. I am all for them. She's starting to give me a little more slack, so I will start using them more often I think.

[Les]

I have used cues for one show so far. I would actually love to use cues for every show! The TD/director/drama teacher doesn't want me to program cues and somebody else run them because she believes that the less inexperienced techs need to know what happened and what had to be done when you pressed the GO button. I am all for them. She's starting to give me a little more slack, so I will start using them more often I think.

Yeah I can agree with that to an extent. In a high school, anyone involved with the lighting should be well-rounded. Ideally, each student should be given the chance to program the light board, run it manually and run it off a cue stack -- because let's face it. Manual control is a dying art, everyone uses cues these days.

So I agree as long as the teacher's plan is "run manual first, then learn programming, then learn to run cue stacks". That process shouldn't take too long to accomplish either.

Many people see running lights off a go button as the easy way, but in reality, getting it all programmed and timed properly is a difficult task. Arguably more difficult than pushing faders up, because with manual control you have a lot more leeway. When you're working with cues, you have to have those times just right because in many cases you are committed to them come showtime. IMO, everyone should learn it all for the full experience.

[masterelectrician2112]

Les, I completely agree. Couldn't have put it better myself. I learned that programing cues is also difficult in its own way. Well put! Thank you.

[Morpheus]

Wow I have not followed this thread!

You have to use the OE if you want to edit and take something out. You can add things to a cue on the console you just can't remove anything without deleting the cue and starting over.

wait, what do you mean "take something out"?

[SamAU]

For anyone who has had the joy of using a LSC maxim with a patpad, those patpads are house....