Control/Dimming - Any ideas on programming a clock in lights?

[toomanyairmiles]

It's sort of an art piece for a rural building. It has to run for years without intervention so I am going to put the whole set up - LED lights and controller on a ups. Here is the idea. There are 4 windows and I will point a LED can at each window.

I can use the LED lights to use color to represent certain numbers. I would need 4 windows to do it one for each digit, here is the idea:

0=Black (no light)
1=White
2=Red
3=Orange
4=Purple
5=Green
6=Yellow
7=Blue
8=Cyan
9=Magenta


Could be 24 hour clock
So 2:24 AM
First window
Black
Second Window
Red
Third Window
Red
Fourth Window
Purple

2:24 PM or 14:24
First Window
White
Second Window
Purple
Third Window
Red
Forth Window
Purple

Once it starts it just keeps going. It could be a dedicated controller or open to other ideas. There are probably several ways to do this - I would appreciate your help!

[Footer]

I would separate out the lighting controller and a time clock. Your going to want to either have a clock that syncs to GPS time or a clock that syncs to "internet" time (pool.ntp.org). Many show controllers will do this. Some lighting consoles do as well.

No console that I know of keeps accurate time without being synced up.

I would recommend getting something like the express LPC controller for this job and using real time events to hit "go" every minute but it does not have a large enough cue stack so that is out.

It might be possible to use that unit and midi timecode to get the thing operational. The time code generator would keep the clock correct and sync to GPS time while the other device controlled the lights.

It would be possible to write a simple program to do this, though the 10 years without touching it thing would be a bit problematic with that solution. I would go with a dedicated hardware solution. High End, Strand, and ETC all make dedicated playback devices. Strand made one for the 500 series but never really marketed it outside of the theme park market. High End/FPS also make one.

You might want to give John Huntington's book and blog a look, he might have some info about some of the newer show controllers out there. He is a member here and might stop by now that we put up the google bat signal.

The issue you are going to run into with this project is that the show really never ends, it just repeats continuously and has to be spot on with the correct time. I am sure the product out there exists that can do this with ease, its just a very specific product

[starksk]

....
0=Black (no light)
1=White
2=Red
3=Orange
4=Purple
5=Green
6=Yellow
7=Blue
8=Cyan
9=Magenta
...

Taking off my ETC hat for a moment, (those who know me know I am rarely without a hat), I question the use of magenta and purple to signify different numbers. Unless you are using something like Selador, or your magenta is really pink, I feel the difference might be lost on most people viewing externally IMHO.

I would separate out the lighting controller and a time clock. Your going to want to either have a clock that syncs to GPS time or a clock that syncs to "internet" time (pool.ntp.org). Many show controllers will do this. Some lighting consoles do as well...
... High End, Strand, and ETC all make dedicated playback devices. ... High End/FPS also make one....
... I am sure the product out there exists that can do this with ease, its just a very specific product

Several controllers including Mosaic (so my hat isn't completely off...) will sync to any external timeserver that you specify. And, while I definitely do not advocate putting a lighting controller on the open worldwide internet, you can probably find a way through some network trickery to allow it to talk to only the time service without exposing the rest of the controller to vulnerabilities that the world wide web provides.

It sounds like an interesting project. My other concern is that UPS batteries need to be drained and recharged every year. Whatever system you use, you will want to take into account how the system is going to be maintained over the years that it is installed.

_________
~Kirk

[toomanyairmiles]

Some quick clarification - the colors were just an example - I probably will not know what colors will be clearly identifiable until I actually set it up. There will be a plaque with a "key" so that people can learn the system and eventually look at the building as they are driving by and know the time - told in light. That is part of the "piece". I agree on the UPS batteries - that will be part of the maintenance required. There are other ways that I think that this can be done that are more "programming" oriented - for example I can think of a program that is written in basic or C that does a system call and finds out what time it is, and if the time has incremented then a code is sent down the DMX channel telling the lights to change. The computer could easily sync it's internal clock once a day to keep things accurate but since there are only 4 digits we can be +- 1 minute which is pretty wide tolerance.
I imagine the syntax of the DMX code is written down somewhere - not sure where I could find it. If there is a widget somewhere that I could plug into a usb bus that would be DMX that could be "written to" by this basic program, that might work. There are so many "ifs" here though that it is getting a bit risky and it is turning into a "project" and I am thinking there has to be an easier way.
I don't think that using a "cue" approach would work because eventually you would run out of cue's. I do agree that a master clock needs to be used if this were done with an outboard controller - so I guess I would need a SMPTE time code generator to feed the board? Seems like allot of iron to do something that is pretty contained. No?

[Footer]

I imagine the syntax of the DMX code is written down somewhere - not sure where I could find it. If there is a widget somewhere that I could plug into a usb bus that would be DMX that could be "written to" by this basic program, that might work. There are so many "ifs" here though that it is getting a bit risky and it is turning into a "project" and I am thinking there has to be an easier way.
I don't think that using a "cue" approach would work because eventually you would run out of cue's. I do agree that a master clock needs to be used if this were done with an outboard controller - so I guess I would need a SMPTE time code generator to feed the board? Seems like allot of iron to do something that is pretty contained. No?

USITT has the DMX spec published. You do have to buy it, but it is out there.

Enntec makes a USB interface for 151 dollars that works well. I would however try to avoid putting this thing on a computer unless everything is server grade.

It is also possible to use Chamsys MagicQ for this. You can have the console cue a cue stack at a given time. Essentially what you would have to do is write a cue for every minute of the day. I don't think this would take as long as you thing. You would then trigger the console to start that cue stack every day at midnight. Because it would be running on a computer hopefully hooked up to the internet the time would be correctly synced and you could remote-administer it. You would have to buy a Chamsys branded USB interface to open up this feature which would run you a bit over a grand.

Modern lighting consoles do not have the cue issue that older consoles did. The only reason I mentioned the express option is there are a lot of them out there. As far as an off the shelf solution, as was mentioned, ETC Mosaic would be a good way to go. They however are not cheap.

[kicknargel]

I'm chiming in where I'm not too knowledgeable, but I know there are open-source software packages that talk to USB/DMX devices that I would think would allow you to program this. Then you're just stuck leaving a computer there.

[Footer]

From the MagicQ Manual....

20 Automation
20.1 Scheduled Events

MagicQ now timed events for trigger Cues at specific times of the day or days of the week. Any Cue in a
Cue Stack can be set to trigger based on a scheduled event rather than following on from the previous Cue.
This enables time of day and date based events to be run automatically.

Scheduled events are supported on MagicQ consoles and on MagicQ PC when connected to a MagicQ
Wing.

To use this feature, set the Halt field in the Cue Stack Window to “Sched”. Then enter the time in the
Wait field. You can enter a full time:

19/30/5 for 19 hours 30 minutes and 5 seconds

or

*/10/0 to have the event occur every hour at 10 minutes past the hour

or

*/*/0 for every minute

It is also possible to set dates. Dates are entered into the macro field starting with Z and ending with Z.
For example to have an event on the 24 December 2005 enter:

Z24/12/2005Z

You can also specify particular days of the week using the characters A to G where A is Monday, B is
Tuesday, C is Wednesday etc…

So for an event every Monday and Tuesday enter:

ZABZ

For an event on the first day of every month enter

Z1Z

OK, I think I have the easiest solution...

Write 4 Cue lists. Each list would control one light. First cue list would have 3 cues, second list would have 12 cues, third would have 6 cues, 4th would have 60 Cues. You would then just have to tell each cue when to fire in the given hour. This would let everything run independent of the last cue and keep you synced pretty well. It would also take into account daylight savings time and all that fun stuff.

[fx120]

Off the shelf professional lighting equipment is probably the wrong way to go about it.

If this was my project I'd be coming up with a custom microcontroller with dedicated code for running just clock functions, and nothing else.

Think simplicity, reliability, and cost.

[TheDonkey]

I think for the colours, doing it a in a rainbow spectrum would be easier. You wouldn't get as accurate a time reading, but you would avoid the problem of Purple vs magenta, cyan vs blue/indigo, and so on.

[Footer]

Sd-50/WWV8 : Gilderfluke & Co :: Robotics & Sound Systems

Might also do it...

I don't know anything about the programming, but there ya go.

[n1ist]

I would use a PC feeding an Enttec DMX Pro or something similar. No need to tie up a full console for this, and the software would be rather simple to write. As for the colors, I'd use the standard resistor color code, but brown and grey could be a problem.
/mike

[jxgriffi]

I would like at the Interactive Technologies Cueserver.

CueServer Overview

Your situation could probably get away with a Mini or the DIN mounted versions and you wouldn't need the rack.
CueServer Models

Single rack space (or small box for Mini or DIN-rail mounted versions)
Real-time clock functions
Web based interface (CueServer Online Demo) to see it being used over the internet for changes
Single DMX universe
If you want, you can add button stations, touchscreen interfaces, etc (but not required to run it with them)

[Footer]

I would like at the Interactive Technologies Cueserver.

CueServer Overview

Your situation could probably get away with a Mini or the DIN mounted versions and you wouldn't need the rack.
CueServer Models

Single rack space (or small box for Mini or DIN-rail mounted versions)
Real-time clock functions
Web based interface (CueServer Online Demo) to see it being used over the internet for changes
Single DMX universe
If you want, you can add button stations, touchscreen interfaces, etc (but not required to run it with them)

The only issue I see with that is keeping the clock on sync. No clock is perfect. The only way to ensure that the clock is accurate is to sync it to either the atomic clock or GPS time.

[toomanyairmiles]

I wanted to thank everyone. There are some great ideas here. I will investigate some and let you know how it works out! Thanks so much!

[STEVETERRY]

Off the shelf professional lighting equipment is probably the wrong way to go about it.

If this was my project I'd be coming up with a custom microcontroller with dedicated code for running just clock functions, and nothing else.

Think simplicity, reliability, and cost.

Absolutely right!

We did just this at Production Arts a few (err...many!) years back for the then-new Nike Store in New York. There was a huge clock made up of 6 x 7-segment displays using backlit lightboxes. We used an AMX controller running custom code and driving fluorescent dimmers to turn it into a real clock.

You will drive yourself crazy trying to do this with a lighting console, IMHO.

ST