Sidearms? /Right Arms.

[CSCTech]

Hello,

So, I am thinking of what to try to get this upcoming year besides more lamps, gels, and gobos. I am thinking about sidearms, I was thinking mostly about getting two sidearms and two source 4s to go on them and those would take place of the two end ellipsoidals on our foh bar, or maybe in the middle of each half.
What are the better, yet cost effective (School..) side arms? And, side arms only pan correct?

I would like to get some dmx toys now that we have the board to use them, old board only had one universe. With our board, and being a highschool I dont think a moving head would work to well, but with only a pan, the operator can do it manually with a slider I would assume, if following someone that is.

Also as a though, Wireless DMX is expensive isnt it? It would be nice to have the first link to be wireless so we wouldnt need to hassle the grounds department to have an outlet installed and ran through the ceiling blah blah blah.

Thanks,

[Wolf]

I think you have some terms confused. A sidearm is a stationary metal pipe with an attachment for the yoke bolt. Typically they are use for side light and hun on vertical booms so the light can hang normally and put less stress on the c-clamp and the units yoke. This is a sidearm Side Arm, 12", with 1 Sliding Tee
You may be interested in a moving mirror that attaches to the front of a ellipsoidal. They're are two brands one is cheaper and the other is more expensive but better quality. This is the cheaper models METEOR: ElipScan I can't remember the name of the higher quality one but im sure someone will be along that will. Hope this clears some things up for you.

As far as W-DMX yes it is quite expensive from what I understand, I would avoid talking to maintenance if at all possible. If you can just take a DMX run from either your board or your dimmer rack (if possible) which ever will be shortest and easiest that would be best. I would imagine if you try to go through maintenance to get am actual run of DMX through walls/ceiling whatever and they would have to do it through conduit it most likely take a very long time if ever to be done.

[Les]

I would agree with wolf on this one, re moving mirror attachments. But don't count on it as anything but a refocusable special. Following a performer manually via DMX is A LOT harder than you'd think. Here's the gotcha though - I don't think they will fit in your 5/50's OR the mini's. These are made for the smaller aperture instruments like the Source Four. Your7.5" frames and 6" 5/50 lens will be too big. The 3.5" mini's are much too small.

I probably wouldn't get any DMX toys or moving lights at this time if I were you. For the price of a good gobo rotator you can get a new ellipsoidal. I'd do that since judging by your recent posts, your conventional inventory seems a little thin.

[CSCTech]

Hmmm, I am thinking of something different then.. I saw it on this forum before, it was a DMX device that attaches to a pipe with a c-clmp and a ellipsoidal attaches from the side mounting hold instead of the top, and the unit would pan left or right, it was a two channel device, and the fixture itself plugged into its own dimming power.

Yeah, there is another thing we could do to run the dmx cable, not sure if maintinance would let it go though, would run a cable with the snake (it goes down the side of the wall) and have it go up at our light trees (Yeah, we have light trees, with no light on them, well, no circuits to them, I think that is why we have like 20 open circuits on our rack..) then some how making it safe to run accross the ceiling to the foh bar.
Yeah we do not need any fancey toys just yet, I was just thinking that this thing I am thinking of seemed rather simple so it might work.

I suppose I could also try getting a cyc instead on our extra batten. Or maybe getting the deadhung mid travaler less then half a foot from the deck.
Hmm
Any suggestions for lights besides source 4s? We have all Colortran- 5/50s, 6 and 8'' fresnals, Mini ellips', and 3 channel cycs. And Altman border lights.

[ship]

But if side arm, Altman, L&E or other clamps (ETC clamps are slightly too small,) 1/2" Sch.80 black water pipe and the tees - all locked in by bolts or cotter pins on both ends. Sch.40 is common... Sch.80 pipe is much better. This or some cheseboroughs and short lengths of pipe. More the current standard for a boom and in the end cheaper in labor and materials. That plus sronger.

[venuetech]

Hmmm, I am thinking of something different then.. I saw it on this forum before, it was a DMX device that attaches to a pipe with a c-clmp and a ellipsoidal attaches from the side mounting hold instead of the top, and the unit would pan left or right, it was a two channel device, and the fixture itself plugged into its own dimming power.

are you thinking about the Apollo "Right Arm"?
Apollo Design | Right ArmŽ

[CSCTech]

Yes! :D

Thanks so much,
Does anyone like or use the right arms? I didnt know that the unit also did a tilt.

[Sony]

RightArm's are some of the best DMX Accessories made! We just bought 6 of them for NNHS and I have used them in my college previously, they are amazing and possibly the most versatile accessory I have ever used. Basically you only need to mount one fixture to have a special to hit anywhere on the stage. Not only that but they have a built in scroller power supply, powerful enough to power 2 other accessories, so you can mount a color scroller on the front and a DMX Iris/Gobo Rotator in the accessory slot and you have basically a simple moving effects generator. It's definitely one of the best pieces of equipment I have ever used and if you can afford them I HIGHLY recommend acquiring as many as you can. I did a bunch of shopping around and was able to get them for about $850 each even though they have an MSRP of $1200 you can get them fairly cheaply if you shop around and put out bid's, especially if you are ordering more than just RightArm's.

[venuetech]

Yeah we do not need any fancey toys just yet, I was just thinking that this thing I am thinking of seemed rather simple so it might work.

Something like the right arm is a great tool, you would find yourself using it all the time. i have two rosco I-Cue's/S419 (moving mirrors)in an foh position, i constantly go to those units especially for the many one-off events. I have never regretted buying those.

[CSCTech]

Hmm, sounds great. It would probably go through the drama departments instead of the school so it would go a little fast.

Yeah I am thinking of so many things I could use them for or could of. I needed 5 special spotlights on different points on the stage all different colors for our last show, it wasn't to fun. If I had one of these I could of set the points and got a gel scroller and been done with it. Especially since we have a fixed foh bar it would be so nice not to have to bring out the ladder as much.

If I can try to get our local supplier to get us two for maybe 1500 I think we could definetly do it.

[Sony]

$1500 is a bit of a stretch for two of them, thats $750 a peice and I don't even think your supplier could buy them for that wholesale. You might want to settle for one RA and maybe a couple accessories like a gobo rotator or a color scroller or two.

[CSCTech]

Well, I said 1500 including our discount and tax free discount and that is only if they can get them for the $850 as some sites sell them for.

Edit-

Reading my post made me feel dump...Since resellers get products from the company.

Never mind lol.

[Sony]

Your supplier can't use your discount, and they pay tax because they are For Profit. They will probably be able to sell it to you for $850 without tax, thats how much I payed for them for my college and we are also Not for Profit with an educational discount. Sorry, but that's the reality or running a business. It may be better for you to settle for one RightArm and a Gobo Rotator and/or one or two Color Scrollers.

[CSCTech]

I meant the discount they give us.

With anything we buy from our supplier, we get a slight discount plus a tax free discount. It isn't really tax free but they cover it. Maybe because we are a state school or something I am not sure. Or just because we have been going to them for our lighting and sound needs since the beggining.

But if they sell it normally for 850 we can probably get 2 for a little less. But hey I am just assuming, I will have to ask of course.

And maybe one would bea good idea for now.

[dramatech]

First let me say that the "Rightarm" is one of the nicest devices that I have invested in. I contemplated their purchase for nearly two years.
I am a volunteer at a community theatre. I purchase all of our lighting equipment with my own money, and then give them the receipts. Each show that I ME, I get $400 returned from the receipts and for each show I design, I get $1000. In this way I get to choose the equipment that I want for the theatre, and any money they pay me is returned as purchases as a gift for the theatre. That makes it so that I don't have to pay any taxes on the money, and the theatre gets the full benefit of monies spent.
The purchase of two "rightarms" was a big purchase for me, so I did quite a bit of shopping on line. I purchased mine for $821 each plus another $20 shipping for each. No tax because of "out of state purchase". The total was $1682. I would be surprised if you can get them any cheaper.
At first, we had lmited use for them, but we are currently doing "Rent", and the current designer is using them a lot. They realistically have replace at least 8 specials. This is a good thing, as we have run out of dimmers at that position. We are using them with Chroma Q scrollers, and some DMX controlled irises that I fabricated myself. The Irises are moved with hobby servos, so they don't have the torque to really close all of the way down. For our purposes, they close far enough. Considering that I had almost all of the parts laying around, I could afford the Irises. If you have the budget, you might want to try the Apollo Iris. There are others available, but with the good price that I got on the "rightarms", the Apollo irises, can also be had for a good discount price.
I wouldn't suggest that the "Rightarm, scroller and Iris combination would replace a good moving light for "Rock and Roll" type of lighting, but they are great for theatre lighting. You might think of them as a good lessor expensive ETC Revolution.

[bishopthomas]

Your supplier can't use your discount, and they pay tax because they are For Profit.

Sorry, that's not how it works. Goods for resale are not taxable to the reseller and is passed along to the customer. That's why you pay tax on the things you buy. The reseller is "collecting" the sales tax from you (the customer) but does not have to pay it on products they buy for resale. Now, if you're registered as tax exempt (schools, churches, not for profit organizations, etc) then there is no tax period. Sales tax is only paid once, so that is passed along to the end user. As a business, though, I am required to pay sales tax on purchases that I make for my own inventory. If I buy a fixture from ETC for my own rig I don't pay ETC the sales tax but I am required to submit that in my quarterly return.

[CSCTech]

So the right arms seem to be a very good thing to get. I will definetly bring it up this upcoming year. I think we would more realisticly be able to get one with an iris and scroller. I think we would get more use out of one with the both iris and scroller then two with neither.

Should I be going with the apollo iris and scroller?

[CSCTech]

I was watching some videos on the right arm,
So when we would recieve the unit it comes with bare leads correct? This isn't too much of a problem as long as the wires are marked.
Also, since of course the unit cannot be dimmed, can it be turned on for pretty much ever or does it need to be turned off? Because if we get one it would be going on our foh pipe where there is only dimmed stage pin plugs so the power would probably have to be ran over from somewhere else, probably a long extension cord to somewhere where we can unplug it, if it does need to be powered off regularily. If that would not work either my only solution besides installing a switch and everything which I really dont want to get into, would be to get a non-dim pack for our rack.

Also about accessories, since the accessorie plugs into the right arm, (I am not used to working with scrollers) will the scroller still be able to be controlled? Is one of the channels on the right arm the power for the accessorie output?

Am I right to say that the fixture you put on is powered by the right arm? And the right arm has its own dimmer?

Thanks.

[millamber]

The Right arm has 2 power cables. One is marked Do Not Dim and plugs into constant power to power the electronics. The other cable exits in the tilt shaft and is used to power the unit attached to the right arm. It can be dimmed and your fixture will plug into it. Also note that neither of these cables come with connectors on, so you will have to add them in the field.

With regard to accessories, the right arm has a power supply built into it and provides 2 4 pin connections to power and control color scrollers and rotators. So yes, you will be able to control it. In your patch you will have to make a fixture with 3 parts: 1 for the pan/tilt, 1 for the dimmer, and 1 for the accessory. The fixtures should be turned off if not being used for a moderate period of time, just to save on wear and tear to the motors.

I did an install with 6 Rightarms 3 or 4 years ago and had a bad experience with them. I'm sure Keith remembers as well as I do the problems we encountered. The trickiest part of the whole deal was getting the balance correct. I want say this was 19 degree source 4 fixtures, but they may have been 10 degrees...anyway, they had color scrollers and gobo rotators in them and I was having the hardest time getting the offset to work correctly without the weight of the fixture throwing off the motors.

To their credit, the guys at Apollo were fantastic. They were right on top of it and helped me out with photos and emails back and forth, even making a mockup of my situation in their shop. They even sent a tech to the site when the other options were exhausted. A+ for the service.

[CSCTech]

Alright, sounds good.

Yeah I was reading about the balancing, seems tricky.
The thing we are going to have the hardest time doing is getting non dimmed power to it. I really dont know what, legal, way we would do it. Without involving electricians coming in etc.

[Lotos]

The thing we are going to have the hardest time doing is getting non dimmed power to it. I really dont know what, legal, way we would do it. Without involving electricians coming in etc.

There's the ticket, you just mentioned the legal way to do it

Your school board may have an electrician on hire who can pull a cable or two for you at minimal cost... It's possible this was thought of, and there's pre-run cable inside your FOH Raceways... I seriously doubt it, but I'd inquire with your staff.
You really need that non-dim power, as well as the DMX out there... W-DMX is great for little one offs, or if you need DMX on something mobile... But for a fixed FOH pipe, that is likely to be a permenant install... You're best to run the cable.

As for the non-dim, how is your school set up?
Do all your circuits come in and hard-terminate into a rack (Dimmer per Circuit) or do you have a Hanging Cord Patch you can swap around?
If it's the former, you'll need a new drop run, but if it's the latter, your power problem just solved itself...

Best of luck!

[Tex]

If it's the former, you'll need a new drop run

... or a relay to replace a dimmer module (which may be considerably cheaper).

[Kelite]

Good day gang,

It's been unseasonably busy recently and I'm afraid I haven't kept up with the conversations here. The comments made by the illustrious CB members are spot-on and most appreciated!

Chris, if I recall the installation correctly the ETC Source Four ellipsoidals had 10* barrels. For those unfamiliar with the 5* and 10* lens tubes, the size and weight of each changes the center of gravity of the lighting fixture dramatically. The Apollo R&D team Chris mentioned devised a counterweight for the rear of the fixture, regaining the center of balance closer to the original 19* - 90* lens tube assortment.

That particular installation is a subtle reminder that many design options exist, and the only limitation is in the mind of the designer. Fortunately your installation team and our technicians had the time to quickly remedy the challenge- and we now have a more versatile product! Kudos to you!


As mentioned in a previous thread, any electrical device that operates with stepper motors, fans, etc should be powered down when not in use to prolong the life of the electrical motors and bearings. (Not to mention conserve electricity, which is a concern in this economy!) Color scrollers sucking dirty air 24/7/365 will experience fan failure long before those which are powered down when not needed.

Great discussion gang, and thanks for letting me chime in!

[CSCTech]

Thanks for the input everyone,

Yes I do realize that a perminant install will most likely be the way it is going to have to go.
We have an i96 rack so our dimmers are hard wire, however with the i96 like many racks the modules can be swapped around, so, if I can get a non dim module to swap out with one of the foh circuits, and badabing badaboom constant power. But these modules are costly right? Before I bring those up I will ask someone from maintinance if they can look around the cieling to see if there is anything ran over there or even outlets. If I remember correctly we were supposed to have a catwalk instead of a fixed foh bar. (Kind of weird actually, the electric is mounted to the cieling rather than a pipe. And then a pipe mounted to the electric on the bottum for mounting) So its a long shot but they might of installed outlets or even more circuits up there but then never finished the catwalk. I really wish I could get a copy of the layout of the room, because we have about 20-25 circuits that or not wired, well, I do not know if they are wired or not, but they do not go to anything. I am thinking that if I where to go into the cieling I would see 5-10 circuits coming right above our trees.
We have trees, but there are no circuits going to them, that I can see.


Anyways,
And the DMX would most likely have to be perminant or wireless. I am thinking an input near the console which runs and comes out to another outlet on one side of the foh bar, then on the otherside another input that runs backstage and runs with the area mic wires (We have three mic inputs built onto our front electric) and go to another outlet on the electric. The one going to the first electric wouldnt be needed, but would save the time in the futute.