ETCnet 1 Help

[lightingguy1]

Hello all,

I have an Expression 2x. I was wandering what ETCnet 1 could do for me.. Could I find any of the Nodes to purchase? And will any pathway products work with my Expression 2x?

Also, Could I have router conected to the desk via cat 5 cable and have a ethernet bridge on the other side?


Thnx

[SteveB]

"I have an Expression 2x. I was wandering what ETCnet 1 could do for me.."

You can connect to a Net1 RVI, or Net2 RVI running in Net 1 mode. IF you can find either as they are both discontinued

"Could I find any of the Nodes to purchase?"

Nope. Nothing that ETC made that contains the word "Node" work in Net1

"And will any pathway products work with my Expression 2x? "

Nope again.


"Also, Could I have router conected to the desk via cat 5 cable and have a ethernet bridge on the other side?"

Maybe, but since the Expression/Insight/Express series only talked Net1 and ONLY talked to a Net1 RVI, going thru any kind of Ethernet system gets you ?.

One thing the Cat5/RJ45 jack on the back of the console does, is talk to/becomes a console facepanel to an ETC Emphasis server (also discontinued) and that unit talks Net2 which allows use of Nodes.

Sorry about the bad news

SB
Thnx[/QUOTE]

[lightingguy1]

But still, Can't Net1 "do" ethernet DMX? And what would you call these things that is supposed to be a node? Srry I meant to type, "Also, Could I have router conected to the desk via cat 5 cable and have a ethernet bridge on the other side with a dmx node, outputing DMX?"\

This was taken From ETC's wiki:

"ETCNet1 provided transport of console video data, DMX (up to 4 universes), tracking backup information and keyboard information over the network. It did not allow for DMX inputs or DMX patching over the network."


Also, Is there anyway i could use a Pathway Product, such as have one of their enthernet DMX as an input and on the otherside of the network, have an output node.






Thnx

[starksk]

It looks like SteveB has already answered your question but here is some additional information and a slight correction.

The other native Net1 accessory is an RIU (Remote Interface Unit). It is a bit of a combination of an RVI and a DMX node. It has long been discontinued, but some pop up on eBay every once and a while.

...
Nope. Nothing that ETC made that contains the word "Node" work in Net1
...

A correction here... no "Gateway" will work with Net1 devices. In addition to the ETCNet2 Video Node, both Net2 Two and Four port Nodes will automatically switch to Net1 mode if they see a Net1 console on the network. (This is why a Net1 and Net2 system cannot share the same network hub or switch). The nodes will output the same data as the back of the console.

As for using switches, hubs, routers, bridges, etc... Net1 communication protocols were implemented before IP standards, and thus communicate on the MAC Address level. Some newer switches and routers will not allow this level 2 traffic through so the use of managed switches is not recommended.

[Edit:] It appears that you posted as I was typing the above reply, so in answer to your additional question about 2 Pathway nodes: Yes, you could use Pathway, ArtNet, Net2, Net3 or any other 2 Nodes/Gateways to put on and pull off this type of data from the network (as long as they are the same type/speaking the same protocol)

[lightingguy1]

To sum this post up, Here is what I was trying to do:


http://www.enttec.com/datasheets/703...%2070305-3.pdf



Thnx

[starksk]

To sum this post up, Here is what I was trying to do:
http://www.enttec.com/datasheets/703...%2070305-3.pdf
Thnx

If you are looking for the type of setup pictured, you will need to have a node at each end of your setup. ETCNet1 does not support wireless networking.

Also, I would suggest that instead of implementing wireless networking, which is not known for its signal strength and reliability of connection, you look towards dedicated wireless DMX solutions. These dedicated devices have been engineered to help maintain that signal strength and connection so you don't suddenly lose DMX during your show (which is inevitably when it would go down).

For more information about wireless DMX solutions, I suggest that you check out these ControlBooth threads on Wireless DMX.

[lightingguy1]

Thanks for sugggesting the wireless dmx, but this is just for a school event, meaning the Expression 2x will ONLY be controling 6 LED fixture,so nobody really cares about the back lighting LEDs(in this case). I wish the school could afford the theartewireless rc4 system, but it can't.

Between the system I showed you earlier, and this chauvet product:

D-Fi

Which one would you choose?

Please note that the wireless points in the pdf is an ''N'' linksys wireless router and Linksys "n" ethernet bridge.



Thnx yet again

[Footer]

Is this for one event or something that will happen over and over again?

Before going wireless, you really need to ask yourself... is there ANY way I could run a cable to do the same thing?

I think you have it a bit backwards. If you want to do this wireless setup like the one pictured from enntec, you are going to have to buy two nodes, a wireless gateway, a wireless router, and all the interconnect cables. The nodes alone are going to cost you 450 dollars and the networking gear will be another 150 or so. You are 200 bucks away from getting the RC4 stuff that is rock solid. It seams like kind of a waste to buy all that gear and not be totally happy with the results when you could just buy something meant to do exactly what you want to do. Use the right tool for the right job.

[lightingguy1]

Is this for one event or something that will happen over and over again?

Before going wireless, you really need to ask yourself... is there ANY way I could run a cable to do the same thing?

I think you have it a bit backwards. If you want to do this wireless setup like the one pictured from enntec, you are going to have to buy two nodes, a wireless gateway, a wireless router, and all the interconnect cables. The nodes alone are going to cost you 450 dollars and the networking gear will be another 150 or so. You are 200 bucks away from getting the RC4 stuff that is rock solid. It seams like kind of a waste to buy all that gear and not be totally happy with the results when you could just buy something meant to do exactly what you want to do. Use the right tool for the right job.

I understand what your saying, but I'm having to purchase all of this with my own money. NOT the school's money,so That 2 hundred dollars could be more lighting stuff. Like I said, It's not critical that there are a few burps here and there.

Thnx

[derekleffew]

If cost is a factor, but reliability isn't, I'd maybe suggest something from one of these threads:
Wireless DMX - anyone try the cheaper stuff?
Chauvet Wireless DMX
rather than all that networking gack. I'd still prefer a cable over any wireless solution, but that's just me.

[Footer]

Two things to remember if you go either the cheap wireless route or the wifi route... wifi operates in the 2.4ghz spectrum as well as most cheap wireless DMX. Nothing kills these frequency's more then bluetooth or other wifi radios. Everyones phone has bluetooth and wifi on it and most people leave it turned on all the time. The system could work great until the audience gets there then it could drop off to nothing. You really won't know until you hit cue one. Run a cable if you can or move the console closer to the stage.

[MNicolai]

Why are you fixated on having wireless DMX? What's the real problem you're trying to solve?

[lightingguy1]

Two things to remember if you go either the cheap wireless route or the wifi route... wifi operates in the 2.4ghz spectrum as well as most cheap wireless DMX. Nothing kills these frequency's more then bluetooth or other wifi radios. Everyones phone has bluetooth and wifi on it and most people leave it turned on all the time. The system could work great until the audience gets there then it could drop off to nothing. You really won't know until you hit cue one. Run a cable if you can or move the console closer to the stage.

Actually footer,

Thanks to dual band N routers, The router can output 2.4 ghz and 5ghz bands, so the interference issue is a thing of the past!

I'm just concerned on how the router will react when I plug an enttec Ethernet node into the "DSL/internet" slot on the router.


Here is what I'm planing on purchasing:

2x ODE (Open DMX Ethernet)

1x D-Link DIR-628 Wireless N Router - 300Mbps, 802.11n/a/b/g, Dual-Band, 4-Port at TigerDirect.com

1x Linksys WET610N Dual-Band Wireless N Ethernet Bridge at TigerDirect.com

They Should all fit into this diagram:

http://www.enttec.com/datasheets/703...%2070305-3.pdf


Thnx

[Footer]

Actually footer,

Thanks to dual band N routers, The router can output 2.4 ghz and 5ghz bands, so the interference issue is a thing of the past!

I'm just concerned on how the router will react when I plug an enttec Ethernet node into the "DSL/internet" slot on the router.


Here is what I'm planing on purchasing:

2x ODE (Open DMX Ethernet)

1x D-Link DIR-628 Wireless N Router - 300Mbps, 802.11n/a/b/g, Dual-Band, 4-Port at TigerDirect.com

1x Linksys WET610N Dual-Band Wireless N Ethernet Bridge at TigerDirect.com

They Should all fit into this diagram:

http://www.enttec.com/datasheets/703...%2070305-3.pdf


Thnx

Have fun, let us know how it turns out....

I would review basics of networking because I don't think you have even the basics of how to set up a fixed IP network.





......your friendly neighborhood CCNA.....

[SteveB]

I'd still prefer a cable over any wireless solution, but that's just me.

Ditto Dereks advice.

A quote from the audio folks "A $50,000 wireless microphone is almost as good as a mic with a wire".

The same applies here. Given that you are starting with an Expression 2 and running 6 LEDs ?, any concept of trying to network and transmit DMX over either WiFi, or even a rented WiFi DMX system is losing track of the important things, which is known as "KISS" or - Keep It Simple Stupid" and that's not a put down, just a usefull philosophy we all adhere to.

Run a cable

SB

[MNicolai]

There's irony in that you'll spend just as much on wireless networking gear as the console and the fixtures are worth...

I reiterate my earlier question: Why is wireless so important to you?

I'd be genuinely surprised if you contacted an electrician and he told you'd it'd cost $700 to get a DMX cable from one end of the theatre to the other, and with that solution, you wouldn't have interference issues ever unless someone cut your cable in half or you didn't terminate the signal.

[lightingguy1]

Ditto Dereks advice.

A quote from the audio folks "A $50,000 wireless microphone is almost as good as a mic with a wire".

The same applies here. Given that you are starting with an Expression 2 and running 6 LEDs ?, any concept of trying to network and transmit DMX over either WiFi, or even a rented WiFi DMX system is losing track of the important things, which is known as "KISS" or - Keep It Simple Stupid" and that's not a put down, just a usefull philosophy we all adhere to.

Run a cable

SB

I wish I could but, The school's stage is "in front" of the cafeteria. And They have this auction crap setup in front of the stage, so it would impossible to setup the console there. For some reason, the will not let me tape down cable on the floor. I think they redid their flooring over the summer, so I'm stuck at front of house. To sum the cable issue, Its now happening......

BTW, I'm know for over complicating things....

Thnx

[MNicolai]

If it's temporary use here and there, you could get some of these and not have to tape things down. There's a lot of different places that sell those and similar versions for cheap.

[lightingguy1]

Finally!

I have come to my senses. Having wireless wifi just for 6 LEDs is a little over the top. I dont feel very comfortable with the chauvet DIFI system, but I did find this:

Wireless DMX PRO 2.4Ghz - 2 Units Pack

And I want YOUR opinion on them!


Thnx

[MNicolai]

If it works, awesome. They claim a range of 1000m with a clear line of sight, which is impressive. Still, the 3-pin XLR connectors are a sign that these are probably DJ level equipment, which is probably fine for what you're doing, but I have no idea who makes those units. SIRS-E just markets that gear; it sounds like they're actually made somewhere in China.

To be honest, it's probably just a better packaged version of your original idea, except your stuck on the 2.4GHz range with no option to hop over to the 5.0GHz spectrum. Their claim of 1000m is probably under the most ideal of conditions, and even then is probably a bit of a stretch.

There were some comments made on all of the units you've mentioned over at PSW that are worth checking out. The summary is that a lot of people have had mixed experiences with the Chauvet gear and while everyone is interested in the units you linked to given their price point, no one has actually tried them.

My concerns wouldn't be so high if this was a disposable product you were purchasing. To a lot of companies, dropping $400 isn't bad to see if something works, and if it breaks after awhile but worked really well before then, the units are cheap enough that they'll drop another $400 without thinking twice. In your case, it sounds like you don't want to drop more than $600 on this, either now or later. But even if you get this or a Chauvet solution, even if it works spectacularly for a year or two, if/when it fails, someone is out another several hundred dollars to replace it. At that time, they'll either have the money for a direct replacement or they'll just buy up some cable.

The life expectancy on well-maintained cable can be a couple decades, while you could be replacing these wireless units a few times in the next decade while waiting for the higher-quality stuff to come down in price.

From an economic standpoint, you just can't beat cable right now unless not running a cable is truly worth the $1000 that might be spent in the next 5 years on replacing defunct wireless units. Now in some cases, that is really worth the money, but a lot of time the mentality is just, "Well...I'd prefer not having to run a cable along the floor." A $1000 is a lot of money to a lot of people, and I've found that I have a lot better things I could spend it on than "Well, I'd prefer to run a few less cables the few times a year I have to work in that one facility."