Stagecraft Company Switch?

[dogstorytheater]

Hey guys,
I'm on the board of a VERY small 501 c3 theater(50 seat) in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

When the theater was first formed a few years ago, an eager board member spec'd a company switch into the plans which has never been used.

Any ideas of how we might recoup some of our costs?!

Thanks for ANY and all help.
Joe

[TimMiller]

You never know when you may need that switch. They go for cheap on the used market so selling it off will not be a good way to get your money back along with hiring an electrician to pull out the cable or properly terminate it. By having that switch you can always add extra dimming or audio equipment or easily meet a riders needs. Parking a generator outside is usually not a very cost effective way of getting power compared to just connecting to a switch. Also how many amps does the switch provide?

[JD]

Absolutely agree! Keep the switch. Just because it is not being used now does not mean your needs will not change. It would cost far more to remove it than you would ever get. Also, if you ever needed it back, you would end up with an install cost that would insure that your 501 would not have to worry about the "non-profit" clause!

[GageStryker]

Best way to make your money back: Invite a touring band in that will then use the switch. Look for someone doing the nightclub/bar scene, as they'll be more than happy with 50 seats.

[MNicolai]

The expense of installing a company switch is not in the switch itself. The greater expense is in the labor and materials for installing a larger service for the building and bringing the wiring to the switch.

If it's something you don't and will never use, it's a sunk cost and you cannot recoup those costs.

That said, having a company switch is a very valuable thing. It allows you more versatility in using the space and it really drives up the value of your performance space should you ever sell the building -- for as much extra value as a 50-seat space can have added to it.

In the future if you need to add lighting or more power for any reason, the first thing you should look at doing is getting rid of the switch and repurposing the power feed to provide power to a dimmer rack instead.

[derekleffew]

...the first thing you should look at doing is getting rid of the switch and repurposing the power feed to provide power to a dimmer rack instead.

Why would the disconnect switch need/want to be eliminated when powering a dimmer rack?

[Goph704]

That is an Excellent question. Also I'm hoping there are cam lock tails on Your switch?
After browsing your website it looks like you're really well set up for performance artists, small band gig,s and small touring shows, who really would Jump at the chance to work in such an intimate space. Your company switch can give you power for amps or for lighting, and it looks although you've got more than enough room for some booms or seen small truss set up. Might I ask ( an please don't be offended) have you, or anyone at your company ever done tie in's before?

[MNicolai]

Why would the disconnect switch need/want to be eliminated when powering a dimmer rack?

If you have 100A/3ph going to your company switch, then you take that 100A/3ph to your dimmer rack, you wouldn't want to leave power to the switch because if it ever did get used, it'd suck up the power alloted for it in tandem with the dimmer rack and would toss your circuit breaker.

I know my electrician would not be crazy about the idea of having two power hungry devices capable of sucking up 100A/3ph to be on the same 100A/3ph panel/circuit/disconnect/what-have-you.

Thanks to load diversity, the sum of the current ratings for the circuit breakers in a panel can exceed the main breaker for the panel, but if there's a strong likelihood that you'll exceed that main breaker's rating, then you should move some loads off of that panel. Plus if they never plan to use that switch, then they can sell it for at least a few dollars but still use the available power for something else.

Company switches, while nice to have, would never get used in a lot of community theatres if they had them. Many of them don't need 100A or 200A feeds additional to the feed to the dimmer rack (if they even use a dimmer rack -- many get by on shoebox dimmers)-- what they want are more distributed 20A circuits. The prospect of being able to hire in a band is a great, but there's no band in the world traveling with gear needing to tie-in for a couple hundred amps of power that you could stand to make a profit off of when only selling 50 seats. If you could sell 300 tickets a gig, then you could actually stand to make a profit, but at 50 tickets to make any money you'd have to either charge a lot for tickets and then maybe break even, or get the band to play for free. Any band willing to play for free or that cheap isn't going to roll in with 200A of gear; they'll roll in with a few guitar amps and a couple 20A circuits worth of PA.

[techieman33]

If you have 100A/3ph going to your company switch, then you take that 100A/3ph to your dimmer rack, you wouldn't want to leave power to the switch because if it ever did get used, it'd suck up the power alloted for it in tandem with the dimmer rack and would toss your circuit breaker.

I know my electrician would not be crazy about the idea of having two power hungry devices capable of sucking up 100A/3ph to be on the same 100A/3ph panel/circuit/disconnect/what-have-you.

Thanks to load diversity, the sum of the current ratings for the circuit breakers in a panel can exceed the main breaker for the panel, but if there's a strong likelihood that you'll exceed that main breaker's rating, then you should move some loads off of that panel. Plus if they never plan to use that switch, then they can sell it for at least a few dollars but still use the available power for something else.

Company switches, while nice to have, would never get used in a lot of community theatres if they had them. Many of them don't need 100A or 200A feeds additional to the feed to the dimmer rack (if they even use a dimmer rack -- many get by on shoebox dimmers)-- what they want are more distributed 20A circuits. The prospect of being able to hire in a band is a great, but there's no band in the world traveling with gear needing to tie-in for a couple hundred amps of power that you could stand to make a profit off of when only selling 50 seats. If you could sell 300 tickets a gig, then you could actually stand to make a profit, but at 50 tickets to make any money you'd have to either charge a lot for tickets and then maybe break even, or get the band to play for free. Any band willing to play for free or that cheap isn't going to roll in with 200A of gear; they'll roll in with a few guitar amps and a couple 20A circuits worth of PA.

I don't see where he said it was a 100 amp switch, for all we know it's a 400 amp switch and there would be plenty of power to plug in a dimmer rack, and jump something else off of the rack. The switch would also make it easier if they chose to just rent a dimmer rack as needed.

[MNicolai]

I don't see where he said it was a 100 amp switch, for all we know it's a 400 amp switch and there would be plenty of power to plug in a dimmer rack, and jump something else off of the rack. The switch would also make it easier if they chose to just rent a dimmer rack as needed.

He didn't; I made that up because it was the plausible basis of my point. If I were to guess though, they probably have a 100A or so company switch. Less power than that and it's probably more a disconnect and less a company switch, and much more than that and someone made a really grave miscalculation when designing the facility and specifically accommodating the needs of that particular room.

[JD]

Or simply eliminate the tails and change the box over to a straight dedicated switch to the new dimmer rack.

[Footer]

There are plenty of things this could be used for beyond dimmers. More outlets, automation, sound, moving light power, the list goes on. Getting power is 3/4 of the battle most of the time.

...... Something involving tapatalk.......

[derekleffew]

Or simply eliminate the tails and change the box over to a straight dedicated switch to the new dimmer rack.

That's where I was going. A local disconnect is never a bad thing.

[dogstorytheater]

Wow. Thanks for all the info y'all.

We actually already moved and had it removed when we left.

Had it professionally removed by an electrician who donated his services

It's a 200Amp, 120/208 VAC 3phase, 4w, 60hz

Hmmm. Well, I guess for now we'll just hold onto it in case the time arrives when we could afford to have it installed at our new place which I don't think has the same power running into it.

We do VERY little live band stuff. I do think it would be a great space for some of that to happen but we really focus on theatre...again...partly why we were so frustrated when we found out how much it had cost.
joe