New Products Unveiled at CUE: ETC GIO, LED S4

[MNicolai]

Those of you thinking the Gio was the only trick up ETC's sleeve for this week may want to take a look at the latest tweets by @Lekogirl and find out what happened at the end of Fred's keynote this morning...

[xander]

Those of you thinking the Gio was the only trick up ETC's sleeve for this week may want to take a look at the latest tweets by @Lekogirl and find out what happened at the end of Fred's keynote this morning...

The LED Source4?

[DuckJordan]

The LED Source4?

If it is I'm going to be broke this year.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[derekleffew]

The LED Source4?

Yup. Look out, LEDko, Neeva, aLEDin, RevEAL.


yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/kg1wsenj Shared by lekogirl

...and as far as anything ETC goes, until they send out a press release that says LED and Source 4 in the same sentence and the cost is under 1k a unit, I'm not going to be paying attention.

Well, satisfying the first two was "easy"; I suspect the "under 1k a unit" will be the difficult part.

[Footer]

Yup. Look out, LEDko, Neeva, aLEDin, Reveal.


yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/kg1wsenj Shared by lekogirl

First vendor to get a demo unit of the LED S4 wins, and I mean WINS.

[xander]

My question is why daylight white? To move to a different market? It sure can't replace the incandescent S4, regardless of cost, it's just a completely different instrument.

[Grog12]

Because they'll match moving lights better. You'll see more and more full spectrum options every year.

[MNicolai]

Fred's keynote this morning in front of an audience of ~300 CUE attendees and ETC employees started with a presentation on the history of the company. Though I had heard him recant the story on a couple of other occasions, today was the first time I have seen him get teary-eyed while talking about the moment he realized he had employees who were relying on his business decisions to keep them employed so that they could continue to feed their families and pay their mortgages. That day was clearly an emotional moment for him in the history of the company, back when ETC had less than one hundred employees (now ETC employs over 700 people across the globe).

The feeling in the room was during the presentation was electric as everyone listened to Fred talk about how the company has evolved over the years. Those who came in after the presentation started lined the walls on either side of the lecture hall. By the time he was done explaining the history of the company, there was no standing room left in the hall; house left and house right were filled with people.

Fred has a sort of social magnetism when he talks about his company -- he speaks as a romantic who has spent his entire life chasing his dreams and catching them, even if sometimes by accident and defying all odds (just ask him how many times he blacked out the Union Theatre with the first console built in his parents' garage or how he blacked out the Land of Mouse with his first parade-float controller). Listening to him speak, it's impossible not to be drawn into his every word as he talks about the serendipitous events that led to Electronic Theatre Controls as we know it today.

At what seemed like the end of the presentation, Fred took a few questions from the audience and then when all Q's had A's, @Lekogirl (from the first few rows of the hall) tossed out the loaded question which was something to the effect of "Clearly tungsten lighting is still very important to theatrical lighting, but are you considering [at all] creating an LED Source Four? Ever?"

Fred, growing quite the smug grin on his face, began to explain how if ETC were ever consider to design an LED Source Four, these were the qualities he would want it to have. Then, as he listed each of the traits, he showed with the LED Source Fours each of the different features as he was listing them off.

It was as if the entire room had been shangaied -- one moment everyone was waiting to get up and leave less anyone have additional questions for Fred about ETC; the next moment we're staring at LED Source Fours that have probably been pointing at Fred and turned on for the entire presentation without any of the CUE attendees knowing it.

What surprised me the most was how crisp and bright the gobo projection was, and how clearly it cut through the other stage lighting. The color-mixing LED Source Four that was pointed at the rear wall looked so crisp that I when I first saw it, I thought it was a 4:3 LCD projector pointed at the upstage wall mimicking the colors of a Selador fixture, but it was really an LED Source Four with the shutters boxed in that was chasing through the different colors.

As Fred described in his own words, this is the the Holy Grail of lighting products. I think everyone in the room today would agree with that statement -- if he hadn't revealed that the fixtures pointed at him weren't incandescents, nobody would've been the wiser: intensity, color quality, beam quality -- nothing was a giveaway that the Source Fours had LED sources instead of tungsten sources.

While the product is not available yet, Fred said more information should be available in the roughly the next 9 months.


Fred Foster by smoke-test, on Flickr


Fred Foster's Keynote by smoke-test, on Flickr


Fred Foster by smoke-test, on Flickr
The backlight in this photo is from an LED Source Four.


"and if we were to do that, we'd want it to have a Kick-Ass Daylight White" by smoke-test, on Flickr
The front light and the gobo are both via LED Source Fours.


Fred Foster lit up with an LED Source Four. by smoke-test, on Flickr
All front light is via two LED Source Fours.

[chausman]

It was as if the entire room had been shangaied -- one moment everyone was waiting to get up and leave less anyone have additional questions for Fred about ETC; the next moment we're staring at LED Source Fours that have probably been pointing at Fred and turned on for the entire presentation without any of the CUE attendees knowing it.

So we could call this ETC's


Yes, I would consider ETC the tech theater Apple.

[xander]

Yes, I would consider ETC the tech theater Apple.

I would argue that. ETC is cool. Apple is evil.

Because they'll match moving lights better.

I know that. But is it variable white? Or just 5600K or whatever? There are a lot of designers that don't want that color temp out of their lekos is my point.

[Footer]

So we could call this ETC's


Yes, I would consider ETC the tech theater Apple.

Because of the "keynoteification" of the world thanks to Apple, many companies that would just send out a press release now spend money on these type of things. It builds itself its own anticipation.

This looks to be a very, very, early product. We don't even have a name yet or a picture of the thing. It looks like they still want to do some serious R&D on it as well. ETC is not about to give up on its dimmer business unless this thing is good enough to replace a sensor dimmer AND a S4. ETC makes a good amount of money on dimmer racks which is something that is going to become a relic if the move to LEDs fully happens. At least they are not in the same position as Crown and only have one pro product, but its still the same issue.

[STEVETERRY]

Because of the "keynoteification" of the world thanks to Apple, many companies that would just send out a press release now spend money on these type of things. It builds itself its own anticipation.

This looks to be a very, very, early product. We don't even have a name yet or a picture of the thing. It looks like they still want to do some serious R&D on it as well. ETC is not about to give up on its dimmer business unless this thing is good enough to replace a sensor dimmer AND a S4. ETC makes a good amount of money on dimmer racks which is something that is going to become a relic if the move to LEDs fully happens. At least they are not in the same position as Crown and only have one pro product, but its still the same issue.

Wrong. Film at 11.

ST

[ScottT]

This looks to be a very, very, early product. We don't even have a name yet or a picture of the thing. It looks like they still want to do some serious R&D on it as well. ETC is not about to give up on its dimmer business unless this thing is good enough to replace a sensor dimmer AND a S4. ETC makes a good amount of money on dimmer racks which is something that is going to become a relic if the move to LEDs fully happens. At least they are not in the same position as Crown and only have one pro product, but its still the same issue.

We have a picture, and it looks like a regular S4 (from a distance). But with out the need to dissipate heat, I'm sure it'll look just a tad different.


Photo

[derekleffew]

Because of the "keynoteification" of the world thanks to Apple, many companies that would just send out a press release now spend money on these type of things. It builds itself its own anticipation. ...

Micro$oft "PowerPoint-ification" was happening before Apple Keynote, and of course 35mm slides way before that. Thank goodness companies are willing to spend money "on these type of things," as I've never been paid to light a press release.

[dvsDave]

Would that be 11 Eastern or Pacific?

[sk8rsdad]

They demoed 2 products, an S4 LED with I think X7 Lustre+ engine and another that was white. It appears to be a body replacement that uses all the existing lenses. Fred Foster claimed it was 9 months from release but the prototype looked pretty finished to me. Very even field, no obvious colour aberation across the field. You can't see from the image but the gobo being projected was a textured glass gobo and it was very crisp.Seeing 2 cords daisy-chained out of the end cap was a bit of a giveaway for me, but they certainly surprised most of us.

If I were to speculate, and why not, I would think the target MAP will be closer to a conventional S4 with a Seachanger. If so, it will still be a while before they replace my conventionals but given the colour mixing I could sell off all my scrollers and 1/2 my conventionals to offset the purchase price. They make a lot of sense for new installs, schools and houses of worship.

We live in interesting times...

[zmb]

Might it be possible that in addition to DMX, the S4 LED could use Net3 over a daisy chain?

[sk8rsdad]

I've been trying to talk ETC into investigating Ethernet over power line and ACN in the fixtures. It would be great to be able to supply power and networking in one connection rather than having to inventory and run multiple cables to each fixture. It might happen but it would be on their schedule and only if they can support it.

[jglodeklights]

Might it be possible that in addition to DMX, the S4 LED could use Net3 over a daisy chain?

Me thinks this might be more complicated than one would think. While each S4 LED could potentially listen for different DMX addresses broadcast over that protocol, the configuration of the IP addresses would be one sticky widget. Each device on a network should really have its own IP. If they were set up with a software that would allow remote configuration, it would work, but the additional effort involved in tracking this information (you would need to know conflicts with over devices such as the router, clients, etc. even if the software could track it) may not be worth it. Additionally, that is one more port to increase the size of the fixture, and one that isn't particularly known for the hardiness of its terminations. It would also mean that each unit would require an ethernet switch built into it to pass the data into the processing hardware and out to the daisy chained unit.

Finally, it would make the fixture more expensive and complicated to manufacture.

[wolf825]

Would that be 11 Eastern or Pacific?

Central time, at least my GPS says its central, but my blackberry is still stuck in eastern. Yay verizon...


-w

[Footer]

Wrong. Film at 11.

ST

Looking forward to it Steve. In all seriousness, I am really interested in this product. I'm sitting on the same rig that you wrote the maintenance contract for when you were at Production Arts. Pragmatech keeps the system running with bubble gum. We are looking at a capital project in the next few years for both venues, from control to dimmers to distribution to fixtures. Lower power, less HVAC, and a quicker show turn around is something we are really looking at. So, if you guys have the product we are looking for, I'll take 600. Right now I am at the point that if they offered me the money to do the project tomorrow, I think I would hold off for a year or two and wait and see whats out there. We are on the cusp here, and we were all waiting to see ETC make their move.

Micro$oft "PowerPoint-ification" was happening before Apple Keynote, and of course 35mm slides way before that. Thank goodness companies are willing to spend money "on these type of things," as I've never been paid to light a press release.

By Keynote I don't mean the program, I mean the "keynote" one more thing exciting product announcements that are live blogged/tweeted/video casted/whatever.

[STEVETERRY]

I'm sitting on the same rig that you wrote the maintenance contract for when you were at Production Arts. Pragmatech keeps the system running with bubble gum. .

Wow, that is one old and tired system! It was bad then, and it must be really bad now.

Cheers

ST

[epimetheus]

I've been trying to talk ETC into investigating Ethernet over power line and ACN in the fixtures. It would be great to be able to supply power and networking in one connection rather than having to inventory and run multiple cables to each fixture. It might happen but it would be on their schedule and only if they can support it.

I don't think ethernet over powerline is such a great idea when your power source also feeds modern dimmer systems. The chop of the dimmers is not exactly conducive to successful power line carrier.

[Footer]

Wow, that is one old and tired system! It was bad then, and it must be really bad now.

Cheers

ST

And it makes Steph REALLY tired. The day she never has to go up to either patch panel, fix a bad strand/centery lamp base, or get 3rd degree burns trying to run a barrel is going to be one of the best days of her life. When we explain what gear we have to visiting LD's, it usually makes their head explode, especially the younger people that have never worked with a dimmer over 2.4k.

[MrsFooter]

Wow, that is one old and tired system! It was bad then, and it must be really bad now.

Cheers

ST

You have no idea. The worst is when I do a prep call for a show, dimmer check before I leave like a good girl, everything works when I close up and go home for the night. Then I walk in the door the next morning and starting turning on the system to show the LD and BAM 7 fixtures out and BAM I look like a dumbass. I swear everything worked last night...

And it makes Steph REALLY tired. The day she never has to go up to either patch panel, fix a bad strand/centery lamp base, or get 3rd degree burns trying to run a barrel is going to be one of the best days of her life. When we explain what gear we have to visiting LD's, it usually makes their head explode, especially the younger people that have never worked with a dimmer over 2.4k.

It's that last bit that gets really frustrating. Of course the rest of it sucks, (especially when I loose my fingerprints--OW,) but the most difficult part of my job is trying to communicate the way our rig works to road LDs. Each one of them has to go through their own emotional cycle of disbelief, anger, sadness, and finally acceptance. Once we get to the acceptance stage we can have a good day, but until then it's going to be a fight. Every time...

Right now I am at the point that if they offered me the money to do the project tomorrow, I think I would hold off for a year or two and wait and see whats out there.

If I find out you're sitting on that money while I'm fixing base caps and fighting with fixtures I WILL GUT YOU IN YOUR SLEEP. Love you!

[dvsDave]

Alright, to get back to the topic at hand, there is supposedly a factory walkthrough today and a close up with the LED Source4s. Here's hoping more information pops up about them.

[Grog12]

I know that. But is it variable white? Or just 5600K or whatever? There are a lot of designers that don't want that color temp out of their lekos is my point.

I'd argue that that statement isn't as true as you think it is...

[rsmentele]

I know this product is not as new, but they also had a working Foundation rigging control unit. It controls up to 48 variable and/or fixed speed hoists. Its software system is roughly based on the Eos control software, meaning you can record cues, wait times, rate times have part cues (if I remember correctly) it has a touch screen monitor for control, as well as a joy stick, and 'go' buttons. It was quite user friendly and very familiar (as they intended) They also unofficially announced that they are going to be releasing a variable high speed hoist system some time soon, but gave no timeline. Not sure if this is common knowledge to everyone, but I figured I'd put it out there incase its not!

[shiben]

I'd argue that that statement isn't as true as you think it is...

I would agree with Grog here. Honestly, if LDs didnt want it, they probably would not have this "feature" in every whitelight LED product worth the money you spent...

[sk8rsdad]

I don't think ethernet over powerline is such a great idea when your power source also feeds modern dimmer systems. The chop of the dimmers is not exactly conducive to successful power line carrier.

The technology has greatly improved in the past 18 months as has the price point. It's worth investigating. Maybe it's not viable everywhere or only viable in certain situations like a smart R20 module in a Sensor Rack. BTW, I'm also an electrical engineer working in telecom (VOIP) so the suggestion is not just idle speculation.

[sk8rsdad]

Another tidbit about Gio, the integrated touchscreens are rumoured to be multi-touch. The implication is the user interface will start to take advantage of it in coming years. It would be nice to be able to organize the rig using some other paradigm than numbered lists, and break the implicit link between fixture type and screen layout so that channels can be organized by purpose for instance. It would also be nice to select channels by dragging a finger over the screen, or lassoing, scroll by gesture, and stuff like that. I don't expect ETC to take advantage of it in the first release since it's a pretty significant change and maybe a compatibility challenge for the other consoles in the family.

[Grog12]

Another tidbit about Gio, the integrated touchscreens are rumoured to be multi-touch. The implication is the user interface will start to take advantage of it in coming years. It would be nice to be able to organize the rig using some other paradigm than numbered lists, and break the implicit link between fixture type and screen layout so that channels can be organized by purpose for instance. It would also be nice to select channels by dragging a finger over the screen, or lassoing, scroll by gesture, and stuff like that. I don't expect ETC to take advantage of it in the first release since it's a pretty significant change and maybe a compatibility challenge for the other consoles in the family.

Sounds like you should investiage the Jands Vista....

[doctrjohn]

Sounds like you should investiage the Jands Vista....

Or an ETC Congo/Jr/Kid. This line gives you the ability to create channel layouts that can resemble your rig, a magic sheet, etc... You can quickly switch between this view or your, more normal/typical, "tombstone" view. You can check out a few examples here.

Best,
John

[chausman]

Another tidbit about Gio, the integrated touchscreens are rumoured to be multi-touch. The implication is the user interface will start to take advantage of it in coming years.

Multi-Touch! Handling multiple parameters better then encoders!

[MNicolai]

All of my photos from CUE are finally up on Flickr. A good chunk of them are from "Fun at the Factory" Tuesday night, where live music and a picnic were held on the front lawn, and inside there were tours, tasty food, and a hallway filled with the history of ETC consoles.


Gio Wooden Model by smoke-test, on Flickr


Gio by smoke-test, on Flickr


Gio by smoke-test, on Flickr


Gio by smoke-test, on Flickr


Gio by smoke-test, on Flickr


Gio by smoke-test, on Flickr


Ion Prototypes by smoke-test, on Flickr


Ion Prototypes by smoke-test, on Flickr

This is the first Ion prototype. At the picnic Tuesday night, David North and Dennis Varian were explaining how this originally ran the Expression software and Dennis actually ran shows on this prototype.



Console Museum by smoke-test, on Flickr


Console History 101 by smoke-test, on Flickr


Console Museum by smoke-test, on Flickr


Fun at the Factory by smoke-test, on Flickr

Check out the Flickr link at the top of this post to view the full set of 60 photos.

[tjrobb]

About heat - the LED will need to dissipate heat just as much as the Halogens, just not as big a quantity. LED's HATE heat, and will die quickly if too warm (over 40°C, typically, and the life starts to plummet). Although I am not an engineer, they may be able to keep the existing tailcap, if it provides enough dissipation. Would make the LED units blend in better as well.

[tyler.martin]

It is a pretty cool factory... I bet no other manufacturer uses Glass Gobos on their factory floor for Area Identification... I wish I had more time to explore when I was there in May

[gafftapegreenia]

One must remember that a large and ever-growing segment is the archtectural market and other long term installation projects. LED's might not be completely ready to fully fill our fickle and demanding theatrical needs, but their long life, low maintenance, low heat and lower power consumption makes them very attractive for many other users, users that will be just peachy with this first gen of S4 LED.

[shiben]

One must remember that a large and ever-growing segment is the archtectural market and other long term installation projects. LED's might not be completely ready to fully fill our fickle and demanding theatrical needs, but their long life, low maintenance, low heat and lower power consumption makes them very attractive for many other users, users that will be just peachy with this first gen of S4 LED.

This is a very good point. Lighting up a painting for 10 hours a day is probably much better accomplished by a LED S4 rather than a conventional on multiple levels. I would imagine museums would love this product...

[druma159]

Now that CUE is over, are the PowerPoint that were given out available for download somewhere?