C-wrench discussion

[shiben]

Now, if the slot in the middle of the wrench were big enough and shaped correctly to crack and tighten T-Handles, then it might be a competitor, but it is still a $60 wrench. I just don't understand why people think that selling a tool for that much or more makes it worth it? I can get a c-wrench for $10 or less almost anywhere. I can work on every nut and bolt that the Apollo Wrench can or the UFT can. So tell me why I should spend six times more on your wrench (or 10 times more on a UFT). All you did was mill some holes in it that happen to be standard sizes for theatre. I just fail to see why manufacturers think that we should pay that much for these tools. I have to imagine that the profit margin is pretty high at that MSRP, and don't tell me that we are paying for the R&D of the tool, because the concept and execution of similar devices has been on the market for a while.

Now, if you attached a wrench/focus tool to a good tactical flashlight with a 3W LED and white/blue/red color selection (maybe stick a green laser in there too), I would consider spending $60-80 on it as it actually means one less tool in my pocket and a good flashlight is that price anyway. For now though, I don't see any reason to upgrade from my current c-wrench, it does everything all these facny tools do and it is cheaper by a mile.

Because people will buy them. For example, most of the theatrical touring folks I know personally have the RUFT. Why? Because they could get one. How often did they use it on the tour? Not very. But they got it anyhow. If your company is buying you something, why not grab one? They are -slightly- nicer than a standard C-Wrench, and why not have one if you can get your own C Wrench your self? The entire thing is based on if they make it, someone will probably buy it. And People will buy all kinds of products, and so they sell them. A sham-wow has no real advantage over a bag of cloth baby diapers for cleaning up messes, yet they apparently pay enough for a guy who gets beaten up by a... "paid domestic partner" to shout about how you need one on late night TV. And if you have a good chance of selling it, why not make it? Better yet, why not have someone slap a "[someone you dont know]'s choice" on it and sell them to conference attendees? The whole thign comes down to SOMEONE will buy one so you make them to get some cashflow there. Also its free advertising for Apollo. However: Would I buy one? No. Would I use one if someone bought it for me? Sure.

[Pie4Weebl]

Flat Focus Wrench by Stage Junk. $20 shipped. No other wrench comes close in usability.

Its not on the website, but you can call for it.

[icewolf08]

Because people will buy them. For example, most of the theatrical touring folks I know personally have the RUFT. Why? Because they could get one. How often did they use it on the tour? Not very. But they got it anyhow. If your company is buying you something, why not grab one? They are -slightly- nicer than a standard C-Wrench, and why not have one if you can get your own C Wrench your self? The entire thing is based on if they make it, someone will probably buy it. And People will buy all kinds of products, and so they sell them. A sham-wow has no real advantage over a bag of cloth baby diapers for cleaning up messes, yet they apparently pay enough for a guy who gets beaten up by a... "paid domestic partner" to shout about how you need one on late night TV. And if you have a good chance of selling it, why not make it? Better yet, why not have someone slap a "[someone you dont know]'s choice" on it and sell them to conference attendees? The whole thign comes down to SOMEONE will buy one so you make them to get some cashflow there. Also its free advertising for Apollo. However: Would I buy one? No. Would I use one if someone bought it for me? Sure.

As a person with purchasing power for my department, I can say this: I would not stock my tool cabinet with $60 wrenches. If I did that they would all walk away. Not to mention the fact that I would have no budget left to buy the things I actually need to get seven shows up and running each season. So, sure, if some multi-million-dollar concert tour is going to buy their crew $100 glorified wrenches, great. Go ahead and support the economy by puchasing the most cost-ineffective tools ever invented for the industry. If my company were to give me $100 to buy myself my own personal tools, I can think of many better ways to spend that $100 than on one RUFT.

It isn't quite the same as items sold on late night infomercials. The people who sell that crap know it is crap, hence why you get 2, 3, or 4 for the same low price as one. They know that no one would buy them if they only got one. If I got four RUFTs for the same "low" price as one, then maybe I would consider buying it, but it certainly isn't worth more than that, and all things considered, it doesn't save any time during hang and focus. I am pretty certain that I can get a light on a pipe just as fast with my c-wrench as anyone with RUFT.

It ironically occurrs to me as I write this, that the necesity for a ratcheting tool to work on lights is near rediculous. If you are tightening your c-clamps more than a 1/4 to 1/2 turn past finger-tight then you are over tightening. I don't have to take my c-wrench off the bolt to turn that far. The same is generally true for the yoke bolt, once it gets fing-tight, it doesn't take much to "lock" it. So why do I need this ratchet?

Our industry has a tendancy to overthink, over enginer, over design, and thus over price a lot of things. Most of the hardware and tools that we use are not industry specific, but we try to make them specific so that we can charge more for them. That seems a little silly. While Apollo's new wrench is slightly redundant to itself, if it were priced to compete with a regular c-wrench I would consider it an improvement on the c-wrench. I just can't see any justification for these newfangled wrench replacements costing what they do.

[gafftapegreenia]

As a concept (I sound like ship) I've never really been a fan of ratcheting wrenches in a lighting fixture application. I've never seen a real time savings in the ratcheting feature. Finger tight should only need a quarter to half turn anyway, why is ratcheting needed for that?

I will defend the UFT, for a couple reasons. 1) I think the layout of the holes was intelligently designed, as it very intuitive to use, unlike other lighting wrenches. *cough Altman cough*. 2) It combines two other features which make it incredibly useful. The continuity checker and the pin splitter. This combines what would otherwise be three tools up on the catwalk into one. If the MSRP on a Gam Lamp Check (which only does stagepin) is $50, and the MSRP on a pinsplitter is $30, and a "quality" c wrench is $10-15, then the UFT could be viewed as a bargain at $75. 3) Aside from a c-wrench, it has the most fastener options of any wrench on the market, not just for hex and square, but for wing nuts as well, which can be especially bugger-some is someone is the past used a c wrench on it and either bent a wing or mashed a thread.

If one can live without the tester and splitter, a SFT is $40.

icewolf08, I don't wish to fight your opinion, I just think that there IS a place for the UFT. I really think Mr. Junk did more than just mill a few holes into a piece of aluminum stock. I've personally had the opportunity to talk to Rob, and he mentioned that his first product, the shackle buster, was made because he once witnessed a stagehand get impaled when a rigger dropped a marlinspike from the high steel. I like to think that he has more motivation is his tools beyond padding his wallet.

[gafftapegreenia]

It ironically occurrs to me as I write this, that the necesity for a ratcheting tool to work on lights is near rediculous. If you are tightening your c-clamps more than a 1/4 to 1/2 turn past finger-tight then you are over tightening. I don't have to take my c-wrench off the bolt to turn that far. The same is generally true for the yoke bolt, once it gets fing-tight, it doesn't take much to "lock" it. So why do I need this ratchet?

That's what I've been saying about the Lightspeed wrench for years, never mind the fact it slips on the smaller pan bolts.

[icewolf08]

As a concept (I sound like ship) I've never really been a fan of ratcheting wrenches in a lighting fixture application. I've never seen a real time savings in the ratcheting feature. Finger tight should only need a quarter to half turn anyway, why is ratcheting needed for that?

I will defend the UFT, for a couple reasons. 1) I think the layout of the holes was intelligently designed, as it very intuitive to use, unlike other lighting wrenches. *cough Altman cough*. 2) It combines two other features which make it incredibly useful. The continuity checker and the pin splitter. This combines what would otherwise be three tools up on the catwalk into one. If the MSRP on a Gam Lamp Check (which only does stagepin) is $50, and the MSRP on a pinsplitter is $30, and a "quality" c wrench is $10-15, then the UFT could be viewed as a bargain at $75. 3) Aside from a c-wrench, it has the most fastener options of any wrench on the market.

If one can live without the tester and splitter, a SFT is $40.

icewolf08, I don't wish to fight your opinion, I just think that there IS a place for the UFT. I really think Mr. Junk did more than just mill a few holes into a piece of aluminum stock. I've personally had the opportunity to talk to Rob, and he mentioned that his first product, the shackle buster, was made because he once witnessed a stagehand get impaled when a rigger dropped a marlinspike from the high steel. I like to think that he has more motivation is his tools beyond padding his wallet.

First of all, the goal of any for-profit buisness is profit. Someone goes home with a fat wallet unless the business doesn't do well. Secondly, if the Stage junk tools are being mass produced then I maintain that the profit margin on them has to be pretty high.

Even if the RUFT and UFT combine the qualities of a pin splitter and lamp check, I still have to have a full blown GAM check on hand, probably a DMM and probably a pin splitter. Why? because inevitaly I am going to need to dom something that only the actual dedicated tool can do. Thus negating any savings. You can't actually write your tools off your taxes unless you are your own company and the people you work for hire you as an IC, so there is still no savings. So, the $60-$100 tool replaces the $10-$15 one.

Theoretically one should never need a tool to open a shackle as one should never be tigtening a shackle past finger tight... So, my c-wrench and safety cost under $20. It won't kill anyone if I drop it unless it takes my belt off, it can work on all the same fasteners that the fancy focus tools can, it can be used as a "fine adjustment tool" on a stuck lens tube, and it can be used on some nuts and bolts that are bigger than what the focus tools are designed for (like those on chesboroughs) without changing tools.

You could build your own equivalent to the GAM Lamp checker for about $6-7 in parts including a female stage pin connector and a trip to Radio Shack. So, including labor, I could probably have one of my employees build four and still spend less money than buying one.

I am not saying these tools are bad, just that I think for what they are, they are way overpriced. I cannot see any justification in paying $60+ for a tool that doesn't offer too many benefits over the $10 one I own.

[mstaylor]

First of all, the goal of any for-profit buisness is profit. Someone goes home with a fat wallet unless the business doesn't do well. Secondly, if the Stage junk tools are being mass produced then I maintain that the profit margin on them has to be pretty high.

Even if the RUFT and UFT combine the qualities of a pin splitter and lamp check, I still have to have a full blown GAM check on hand, probably a DMM and probably a pin splitter. Why? because inevitaly I am going to need to dom something that only the actual dedicated tool can do. Thus negating any savings. You can't actually write your tools off your taxes unless you are your own company and the people you work for hire you as an IC, so there is still no savings. So, the $60-$100 tool replaces the $10-$15 one.

Theoretically one should never need a tool to open a shackle as one should never be tigtening a shackle past finger tight... So, my c-wrench and safety cost under $20. It won't kill anyone if I drop it unless it takes my belt off, it can work on all the same fasteners that the fancy focus tools can, it can be used as a "fine adjustment tool" on a stuck lens tube, and it can be used on some nuts and bolts that are bigger than what the focus tools are designed for (like those on chesboroughs) without changing tools.

You could build your own equivalent to the GAM Lamp checker for about $6-7 in parts including a female stage pin connector and a trip to Radio Shack. So, including labor, I could probably have one of my employees build four and still spend less money than buying one.

I am not saying these tools are bad, just that I think for what they are, they are way overpriced. I cannot see any justification in paying $60+ for a tool that doesn't offer too many benefits over the $10 one I own.

I bought a Flat Focus Tool after it was shown at LDI last year. I liked it enough that I bought two more for both my boys. Since then I have had guys use it and want their own. It is good for the mundane tasks of putting lights on a pipe or truss but it excels at cheeseburoghs, especially the wing nut type. You can not use a C wrench on a wing nut without stressing the wing or screwing up the threads. I also carry a 5/8//3/4 speed wrench. While you don't really need the ratchet, it is nice to pull a FFT or a speed wrnch that fits when it comes out of you pocket. A C wrench does a fine job but you almost always have to adjust it. The speed wrench you just flip ends.

[JWilsonLX]

I tried the FFT this summer, but I think I ended up using it as a bottle opener more than a wrench. I was doing a lot of focusing on booms w/ sidearms and I found that it slipped on the yoke bolt a lot.

URFT for a load-in, speed wrench for a focus(with a 6" c-wrench in both cases) is my preference.

[djyojoe]

In the pouch I wear to work every day is a 6" wide jaw Crescent wrench. My favorite "lighting specific" wrench is the UFT, and I've used almost all of them.

Hey everyone, run out and stock up on all the American made Crescent wrenches you can find. Apex tool group has recently moved their manufacture to China.

On the other hand, last year Ideal bought a failing American forge and has been investing in it while bringing more jobs BACK to the USA. Buck Knives has also been bringing jobs BACK to the US.

Does anyone, besides Klein, make their adjustable wrenches in America anymore?

Channellock is still made in the U.S.A. and they make adjustable wrenches. You don't find the Channellock brand adjustable wrench on the shelf to often. When I first came across them, It was onsale at a local hardware store. After using it. I like how well they are made. So I bought more...

[jglodeklights]

It is the best of both worlds! Has the common lighting bolts and the adjustability for anything else.

Yeah, the Flat UFT? Decent Value. Cutting all those holes does actually increase cost, but it is proportionate at $20. Cutting three holes and adding some grippy stuff........ 6 times is a little high. And you know I do love my Apollo, but still. Heckz noze!!!!!!! My 4 main C-Wrenches were actually free to me as I inherited them from a relative who decided he needed to buy new ones when he moved out of the area. My other two were purchased at $14 and $11 each; they are 8 inch wrenches one of which is the slidey piece of junk. So yeah, $60 with no continuity tester and only some easy of use....not buying it. Worth $35 MSRP/ $26.50 (at most) retail.

[WooferHound]

I always thought they were called Knuckle Busters ?
and then there are C-Wrenches that are Metric or Inches . . .

[dramatech]

I think it is pretty obvious from all of the opinions expressed in this thread, that there isn't a perfect tool that satisfies every theatre tech. I have every tool that has been mentioned in this thread, because I am a tool freak, except the Apollo. My tool of choice is the flat focus tool. The RUFT and my 6" and 8" c-wrenches are never very far from my side. The other theatre specific focus tools are at the bottom of my "extra Tool" toolbox.

Tom Johnson

[gafftapegreenia]

Channellock is still made in the U.S.A. and they make adjustable wrenches. You don't find the Channellock brand adjustable wrench on the shelf to often. When I first came across them, It was onsale at a local hardware store. After using it. I like how well they are made. So I bought more...

The Channellock adjustable wrenches are actually made in Spain by Irega, a company that only makes adjustable wrenches. They make a 6" that opens to 1 3/8" that Channellock uses as item 6WCB.

Has anyone played with the ratcheting adjustable wrenches from Bostitch?

[djyojoe]

The Channellock adjustable wrenches are actually made in Spain by Irega, a company that only makes adjustable wrenches. They make a 6" that opens to 1 3/8" that Channellock uses as item 6WCB.

Thanks, I stand corrected. That must have change in the last 10 years. My wrenches have U.S.A. stamped on them. I'll take a picture and post when I get a chance.

[JWilsonLX]

Has anyone played with the ratcheting adjustable wrenches from Bostitch?

I got one for Christmas, but only just recently tried it during a hang. A cool idea, but they don't work on square bolts, which is a bit of a deal breaker.

[shiben]

I got one for Christmas, but only just recently tried it during a hang. A cool idea, but they don't work on square bolts, which is a bit of a deal breaker.

Yeah, I could imagine that as a problem...