Automated Fixtures - Entry level LED profiles

[Woodj32177]

Nobody said it was slapped together on the fly.

It was copied from the original, The chinese manufacturer has a vested interest in making it as close to the original as possible.
Some console manufacturers are even starting to discuss not writing libraries for fixtures from this and other chinese knock-off manufacturers. So the MS lighting must make the fixtures as close as possible to the "real" version, or they may be left out in the cold when nobody will write a profile for them.

And as for your "drive through window" If you buy from a reputable source, they will be more than happy to help you with any problems you may encounter. And even repair units under the standard factory warranty.
I don't think you will have any luck getting warranty service from MS Lighting, much less parts.

On a side note, Lets speak hypothetically here.
Say somehow this fixture starts a fire that causes property damage.
When the fire marshal figures out that this fixture caused the fire, and it is not UL or CE listed, YOU are going to be the one responsible for the damages.

[derekleffew]

...When the fire marshal figures out that this fixture caused the fire, and it is not UL or CE listed, YOU are going to be the one responsible for the damages.

No such thing as a "CE listing." The MS Lighting fixture DOES have a CE mark,


http://www.flylowandfast.com/Lightin...2060D%2020.JPG
but that means close to nothing apparently.
I (as well as my AHJ) would demand a UL listed, ETL, or other Listed, by NRTL, listing.

[jfetter]

On a side note, Lets speak hypothetically here.
Say somehow this fixture starts a fire that causes property damage.
When the fire marshal figures out that this fixture caused the fire, and it is not UL or CE listed, YOU are going to be the one responsible for the damages.

Why do you assume it's not UL listed?

Certificates: CE standard, UL standard & GB7000.

[shiben]

I don't "want it to", it's simply logical. I do not agree they are blatant rip-off's just yet. I still say making a product look LIKE another is one thing but making it exactly the same is not logical at all. In fact, it raises their cost to do so, a blatant rip-off (IMO) would be similar on the outside only. Likewise, if you were trying to sell based on the "look", you would assume a fly-by-night vendor, not one who actually builds a good product. I'm sorry but in what world is building a GOOD or equally functioning copy of the original and then selling it at 40% MSRP profitable, even in China? Nothing with China is as simple as we want to make it, of this I know first hand, all the pieces aren't in this puzzle yet IMO...

Jack

Its really easy to sell a product at a profit if you didnt have to design it. I would imagine that about half of all the cost of a product is R&D and testing and certification, all things you dont need to do if your ripping off a product. Generally speaking, building things is easy and inexpensive.

[shiben]

Why do you assume it's not UL listed?

Certificates: CE standard, UL standard & GB7000.

I can print that on anything I slap together. Check the UL listings to find out if that product actually is.

[jfetter]

No such thing as a "CE listing." The MS Lighting fixture DOES have a CE mark...

If WIKI doesn't know about it, it must be so... :-\

1. CE Marking on a product is a manufacturer's declaration that the product complies with the essential requirements of the relevant European health, safety and environmental protection legislation, in practice by many of the so-called Product Directives.* *Product Directives contains the "essential requirements" and/or "performance levels" and "Harmonized Standards" to which the products must conform. Harmonized Standards are the technical specifications (European Standards or Harmonization Documents) which are established by several European standards agencies (CEN, CENELEC, etc).CEN stands for European Committee for Standardization.
   CENELEC stands for European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization.

1. CE Marking on a product indicates to governmental officials that the product may be legally placed on the market in their country.
2. CE Marking on a product ensures the free movement of the product within the EFTA & European Union (EU) single market (total 28 countries), and
3. CE Marking on a product permits the withdrawal of the non-conforming products by customs and enforcement/vigilance authorities.

[jfetter]

I can print that on anything I slap together. Check the UL listings to find out if that product actually is.

My Philips toaster has no UL listing mark.
My GE Microwave has no UL listing mark.

Guess what...
My Chauvet MINspot has no UL listing mark...

:-O

[jfetter]

Not taking a shot @ Chauvet BTW, MINSpot is an excellent product! Just illustrating a point...

Jack

[shiben]

My Philips toaster has no UL listing mark.
My GE Microwave has no UL listing mark.

Guess what...
My Chauvet MINspot has no UL listing mark...

:-O

Ok, but is it actually UL Listed? The point remains, I can put CE or whatever on pretty much anything I cobble together with my welding gear, and I can even include a piece of paper that says its UL listed and CE certified or what have you, Or say just about anything else I want about it. None of that makes it true/worthwhile.

[Woodj32177]

Ok, So the chauvet fixture doesn't bear a CE mark, or UL, but it does bear a ETL mark.
This link explains that this testing encompasses several different standards including UL.

I guess I should have spoken more clearly, Even if they marked it as CE or ETL, I am very sure they have not gone through any testing. This lack of testing also saves them money, as ETL or UL testing costs a fair amount of money.
Especially when the testing agency makes you go back to the drawing board to rework something to make it acceptable.

I guess it looks like there is no way we are going to convince you, since the actual manufacturer came on this thread and told you it was fake....
If you won't believe them, I am not sure who you would believe.

As for the toaster and microwave, I would hold them to a different level, as they are not intended to be used in a public performance space.

[jfetter]

I had a long reply but why bother, I think it's safe to say the argument is dead. There is little point in continuing as a head-to-head comparison doesn't seem to mean anything. Sadly, proving intellectual property (something I DO respect and searched both filed and issued patents to no avail) is hard to show. Either way, this argument seems to be drawing anger so let's just let it die...

Jack

[Woodj32177]

I agree, very dead, since convincing you seems to be impossible.
I would make one final point however, If somebody stole my lighting design, and recreated it in every way shape and form, I would be pretty pissed off. And in my opinion, rightfully so.
Even though I don't have a patent for my design. (I know patents are not issued for lighting design but it is a hypothetical to make a point)
The fact that the fixture looks like the other is enough to tell us that they at the very least trying to steal market share from the chauvet fixture.

[Jeffhtg]

I don't "want it to", it's simply logical. I do not agree they are blatant rip-off's just yet. I still say making a product look LIKE another is one thing but making it exactly the same is not logical at all. In fact, it raises their cost to do so, a blatant rip-off (IMO) would be similar on the outside only. Likewise, if you were trying to sell based on the "look", you would assume a fly-by-night vendor, not one who actually builds a good product. I'm sorry but in what world is building a GOOD or equally functioning copy of the original and then selling it at 40% MSRP profitable, even in China? Nothing with China is as simple as we want to make it, of this I know first hand, all the pieces aren't in this puzzle yet IMO...

Jack

Wow. Way to get off OP topic

Anyways since I posted this I have picked up some prototype fixtures from a US company that is bringing in a product like this. It is interesting how the process works.. because basically companies like chauvet, elation, adj, and others buy a pre made product.. some have it modified to be cheaper or better.. but molds cost alot of money. So body styles are the same BECAUSE they don't wanna drop 20g extra for their own mold.

Either way.. The lighting world is about to get a whole new group of fixtures that are starting to get into PRO level performance for 1/4 the price. I met a guy just this week that brings in containers of lights for private commercial use.... he gets many that dont work out of the box - but they become spare parts and everything works out in the long run for him.

I'm not saying its right. I'm just saying things are changing. I've got my bowl of popcorn

[jfetter]

..It is interesting how the process works.. because basically companies like chauvet, elation, adj, and others buy a pre made product.. some have it modified to be cheaper or better..

Yes, this point was missed by many. Some don't want to believe a company could find an existing product from a reputable Chinese company that does OEM/ODM on a regular basis, tweak it with perhaps a quick change gobo wheel and easy access door and then re-sell it in another market (i.e. country) but this happens every day. In fact, this has been going on for decades across thousands of products.

The emotional aspect is where the argument occurs, perhaps the price differential or superior mentality (or other factor) forces human logic to simply refuse to believe the products could ever be similar, yet alone virtualy identical. The ethics issue, well that means the Chinese company should not re-sell the modified version (in an ODM situation absolutely) because that version is absolutely an original, owned by the company that paid to have it designed and/or manufacturered.

So the Chinese company still sells (legally and morally) the base product (they designed!) to many other companies, perhaps eventually being sold along side the "sister" product. Surprised, you shouldn't be, you see it every day in Best Buy, Target and Wallmart and you name it. So without the legal/moral issue, you still do have differences, the question is how different and does it affect performance/reliabilty/durability/service etc and if so, how much and is your situation one in which this is or is not acceptable, this is where the discussion should go IMO...

Jack

[Woodj32177]

Jack,
The Senior Product Manager from Chauvet came on this board and told you that you are wrong. I assume you must think he is lying.

I agree that companies buy fixtures from other companies on a regular basis. However those deals always include a provision that prevents them from selling them in the same market, under the threat of heavy monetary penalty. Plus obviously losing that business partner.

I am sure that chauvet has sold many more of that fixture than MS lighting has. If Chauvet caught an OEM selling one of their fixtures rebranded, there is 0% chance they ever would use them again for another fixture. That is a much larger loss of sales than they ever could bring in selling the same fixture on the side.

There would be no benefit for any OEM manufacturer selling the same product for cheaper in the same market as the company buying the OEM product.

Once again, IT MAKES NO SENSE for a OEM to sell to the same market that their client is selling to.

You are blatantly wrong and made an poor ethical choice and are now trying justify it.
Good luck with that and your knock off fixtures.

[bishopthomas]

I have knock off fixtures. I don't really give a **** what you or others think. They make me money. They look good and my clients are happy. For me, that's the only thing that matters. I'm getting a good deal and am able to pass that along to my clients. The ones that need higher end fixtures I bring those and charge accordingly.

[Pie4Weebl]

I have knock off fixtures. I don't really give a **** what you or others think. They make me money. They look good and my clients are happy. For me, that's the only thing that matters. I'm getting a good deal and am able to pass that along to my clients. The ones that need higher end fixtures I bring those and charge accordingly.

congrats, you're now on the same level as the guy on the corner selling burned copies of DVDs for $5.

[jfetter]

Jack,
The Senior Product Manager from Chauvet came on this board and told you that you are wrong. I assume you must think he is lying.

I agree that companies buy fixtures from other companies on a regular basis. However those deals always include a provision that prevents them from selling them in the same market, under the threat of heavy monetary penalty. Plus obviously losing that business partner.

I am sure that chauvet has sold many more of that fixture than MS lighting has. If Chauvet caught an OEM selling one of their fixtures rebranded, there is 0% chance they ever would use them again for another fixture. That is a much larger loss of sales than they ever could bring in selling the same fixture on the side.

There would be no benefit for any OEM manufacturer selling the same product for cheaper in the same market as the company buying the OEM product.

Once again, IT MAKES NO SENSE for a OEM to sell to the same market that their client is selling to.

You are blatantly wrong and made an poor ethical choice and are now trying justify it.
Good luck with that and your knock off fixtures.

Joshua,

I don't know what you do for a living but in my field I have a professional resume I'd put up against any. The one thing I've learned in my long career is to learn to communicate, not insult as that immediately leads to escalation and the ears just close. I haven't said anything rude so it would be nice to see you do the same.

Two points; first, what the Chauvet PM said was the only thing he could say, think about it. Second, if you read carefully you would have seen the speculation on my part is that this is the root fixture, a very similar fixture in almost every way that I then presumed was what they started with and entered an OEM or ODM (likely an ODM deal) to have it produced.

This is no way makes the original Chinese fixture illegal, unethical or immoral to purchase and use. You need to separate out emotion IMO and go on facts. Now if Chauvet says they designed it from the ground up and anything and everything that looks and functions like it are in fact IP, then I absolutely agree with you!

Jack

[DuckJordan]

Joshua,

I don't know what you do for a living but in my field I have a professional resume I'd put up against any. The one thing I've learned in my long career is to learn to communicate, not insult as that immediately leads to escalation and the ears just close. I haven't said anything rude so it would be nice to see you do the same.

Two points; first, what the Chauvet PM said was the only thing he could say, think about it. Second, if you read carefully you would have seen the speculation on my part is that this is the root fixture, a very similar fixture in almost every way that I then presumed was what they started with and entered an OEM or ODM (likely an ODM deal) to have it produced.

This is no way makes the original Chinese fixture illegal, unethical or immoral to purchase and use. You need to separate out emotion IMO and go on facts. Now if Chauvet says they designed it from the ground up and anything and everything that looks and functions like it are in fact IP, then I absolutely agree with you!

Jack

I don't understand why you bring up emotion, and only respond to the arguments that didn't give you facts. It proves our point that instead of being a discussion its turned into a one way speech. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I have read your points, and understand why you feel the way you do. Do I believe you're correct? No, I don't but at least I include the discussion into my post. You speak of closed ears but I find your ears just as closed as many of the other viewers of this thread.

[jfetter]

I don't understand why you bring up emotion, and only respond to the arguments that didn't give you facts. It proves our point that instead of being a discussion its turned into a one way speech. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I have read your points, and understand why you feel the way you do. Do I believe you're correct? No, I don't but at least I include the discussion into my post. You speak of closed ears but I find your ears just as closed as many of the other viewers of this thread.

I didn't accuse him of anything except being rude? Tell me then, what facts do you bring (or consider) that I am missing or ignoring?

Two of the "facts" you cited in your post are complete assumptions on your part, one of them is opinion and the other no one is arguing?

Jack

[Pie4Weebl]

To get back to the bigger picture, will those lights even be powerful enough for your space?

Jack, going by your location I'm gonna guess this is your space:


From what I recall trim there is high enough where anything less than 700 watts just isn't gonna cut it.

[Ford]

Two points; first, what the Chauvet PM said was the only thing he could say, think about it. Second, if you read carefully you would have seen the speculation on my part is that this is the root fixture, a very similar fixture in almost every way that I then presumed was what they started with and entered an OEM or ODM (likely an ODM deal) to have it produced.

Jack

Hey Jack,
To be clear, this is not the same root unit. this is not produced by our factory, it is a copy of a 3 yr old fixture. It is a copy. If you do not see it as an issue, I will not be able to change your mind. If you have noticed the SOPA mesage at the top of the threads today, you'll understand that this is the sort of thing that feeds the attempt to put legistlation like this together.

As to what else I could have said... If I'd wanted to, I could have not responded at all. I have not, and will not say anything untrue. You can ask Derek, or any of the other lighting professionals that I have worked with over the last 20 years, and I don't think they'll have much to say against my character.

I appreciate you looking for the best deal you can, but respectully disagree that these will work out well for you in the long run. I also disagree that MS lighting (which deals exclusively in knock-offs of other people's products) is a reputable company.

Again, I respect that you think that you have found a deal. Please do report back about how these hold up, and how MS lighting handles service issues, and where you get spare parts, and who you can get on the phone when you have an issue. I suspect that after a few months of regular use, you may find that these fixtures are not the deal that you believe them to be.

As to the IP issues... There is not much that we can do about it. There are literally 100s of companies making knock-offs of our COLORado fixtures (none with dimming, or sustained brightness, or consistent colors, etc....but they look the same, and have the same DMX channel layout), and if you scour the internet more closely, you'll find other copies of our units, as well as fixtures from every other major lighting manufacturer. However, if you would like to continue to see new fixtures, someone has to innovate.
We are continuing to do so, and always pushing ahead. I have a team of 12 people working in my Product Development department in the US. I have a QC department with almost 20 employees (again working under me in the US). In fact, if you go to our website, you'll see that we're looking for another Product Manager right now. I would encourage anyone who thinks they are qualified to apply (you will have to move to Florida, but it's 75 degrees and sunny today). If, as a consumer, you want to wait a year or longer, and then buy a copy of a fixture that may or may not work as well as our original, and not have anything at the cutting edge of technology... I cannot convince you otherwise.

Good luck,

[jfetter]

Thanks for the reply Ford, very professional of you to reply and I know you could have said nothing, I respect that you did. You didn't come out and say precisely what I wanted to hear, that "the MS Lighting fixture is an unathorized copy and considered Chauvet's IP". Yes you said much of that but not directly and not together, there's no room for interpretation with that statement. As for the SOPA statement, would you rather folks just use any product from any source or attempt to find out the real story as I am? Just because I am not agreeing immediately doesn't mean I don't agree with some or all.

I was also never totally convinced it had to be from the same factory either just as I am not convincved MS Lighting actually makes it anymore. LEDID seems to be the top tier, my assumption is they actually produce it or most of the sub assemblies, I've come across this same fixture on no less than 8 to 10 different Chinese sites. One important point, these lights were not purchased for anything other than my living room, where they sit along side a dozen other toys, they are not really suited for anything much more than club, maybe small shed use (but no 60W LED is IMO)...

Jack

[DuckJordan]

To be clear this is just to clear up some confusion jfetter is creating, Finding the same Chinese fixture on multiple chinese websites is like me walking into any large store such as walmart finding a bottle of nock off dawn, and then going to target, and finding their nock of dawn, and then going to Kmart and finding their nock of dawn. The point of the matter is its all the same stuff just rebranded. The difference between dawn and a lighting fixture is, the patent and IP rights have been made publicly available, So creating another dish cleaning product with the same properties as dawn and the same color with similar to almost exact bottle looks is legal.

Your argument of since you didn't say This but instead said this proves nothing. You'd be shocked since your opinion says that "they are not really suited for anything much more than club, maybe small shed use (but no 60W LED is IMO)..." there are several <60 watt LED units that come through on professional A level tours, such as wizard of oz, White Christmas, and other shows similar. Not a single show has come through with the Chinese copies although we have two in our building right now that are needing to be serviced (we don't carry or support these fixtures) but we have to figure out why they aren't working properly for another city facility.

So for anyone who reads this thread for future purpose, a majority of us do realize that chinese fixtures ,while not all, are generally knock offs. I would also like to point out these are generally below the quality control of the fixtures they were ripped off from. You also will have to find someone else (other than the manufacture or dealer) service any of the fixtures since the support ends after you get them. If you are planning on buying automated lighting fixtures, at least go with a company who will stand behind their product and offer service to the fixtures after the purchase.

[Ford]

Hey Jack,
Just for the sake of clarification: Anything from MS Lighting, and anything from LEDID that resembles a Chauvet fixture is an unathorized copy, and these units are direct infringers on Chauvet's IP.



In fact, I'll warrant that the 8 to 10 different fixtures you've seen like this are all made by different companies, all trying to sell a few lights.

I found my first trip to Asia both enlightening, and terrifying. Factories in the manufacturing centers of China are like family stores in the US. There are thousands of them, and more popping up every day. Once one person copies a mold, it is available from every mold maker in China (that may be a slight, but not large exaggeration). Then the only way to tell if a fixture is authentic is to turn it on. I've seen fixtures offered by a "factory" smaller than my garage, that literally had our name stamped in the mold. Walking a tradeshow in Asia is terrifying if you get too uptight about your IP. It only really bothers me when they sell to the US, and someone says something like "It's the same light", or "it comes from the same factory".

Funny story (ok, not that funny, but informative): Shortly after I was hired at Chauvet, and soon after we came out with the Intimidator XYZ (a unit that could not possibly be copied by accident, and was quite difficult to develop), I traveled to Asia for the first time, and walked a HUGE tradeshow. There, in the back, in a 10'x10' booth was a mom & pop factory with a direct copy...I thought "Already?? Ugh..", It looked IDENTICAL to our XYZ. The factory boss' daughter spoke broken english, and they were more than happy to explain to us that they manufactured the light for Chauvet, and that they could easily produce an order of 500 units per shipment... They were all smiles, and sunshine, but we played along, and asked them to turn it on...then the unit's head spun down, we heard motors torquing out, it tipped over, and began twitching. They continued to smile at us, and pretend that there was nothing wrong, as if we would be remotely interested in a unit that could not even turn on. They were completely unabashed. They expected that we would likewise be completely at ease passing this POS off to our customers.
I learned a valuable lesson that day: What I do, what my team does, matters. The hours of product reviews, tweaking software, pushing suppliers for better parts, all of it... matters. Chauvet may not have the resources of some of the larger entertainment manufacturers, but we work hard to provide the best value that we can in our products. We offer different products, target to different sectors of the market, because we want to offer a product to almost anyone who wants it. This can seem flawed, if someone shoots our SlimPar against a product from PixelRange, but when you put our similar product up against our competition, we always provide value, and quality relative to that market sector. If I had just seen a photo of that XYZ knock-off, it would have looked like the same unit. It was when I saw what it did (or didn't do), and I saw how the factory owners responded, that I understood how important our positions at Chauvet are.

Anyway, I've ranted enough. Back to work for me.

[Gern]

Thanks Ford,
I for one appreciate the time you have taken on this subject.

[jfetter]

Your a good dude Ford, I respect anyone professional enough to take some heat and stay professional, it says a lot about you. I'm a fan of this simple statement, "say what you mean and mean what you say", if everyone lived their life this way the world would be much simpler and we could probably do away with lawyers and all the warnings and such we post on products saying "not to insert your tongue in the impeller on a jet ski" and so many equally silly things.

Your statement means enough for me to not purchase these fixtures again, not based on quality or lack of it (I really think this fixture is well made, sad really) but because I don't support theft. I see theft of software on a regular basis, people think beause it's virtual and you really can't hold it, it's not theft but it's all the same in the end, the innovator loses out. I'm glad you took the time to respond, not many others would have and done it so professionally...

Jack

[jfetter]

To be clear this is just to clear up some confusion jfetter is creating...

If you're confused that's fine but do you think other people can't figure things out on their own? I don't think I caused confusion in the slightest, you followed it right?

Asking him to phrase it in a way that couldn't be misintepreted is something I learned from years of subtle word play, sadly it matters and in the end he had no problem clarifying for me. Sorry you are so certain of everything in life and know every Chinese product is a scam, must be good to be so certain about things...

Jack

[DuckJordan]

If you're confused that's fine but do you think other people can't figure things out on their own? I don't think I caused confusion in the slightest, you followed it right?

Asking him to phrase it in a way that couldn't be misintepreted is something I learned from years of subtle word play, sadly it matters and in the end he had no problem clarifying for me. Sorry you are so certain of everything in life and know every Chinese product is a scam, must be good to be so certain about things...

Jack

Now don't put words into my mouth, I never said that all Chinese products are scams, just the majority of what is marketed on the internet sites that claim to have cheap amazing lights. Not to mention the silly spelling mistakes and the obvious copy/paste of information.

[Jeffhtg]

Jack,
The Senior Product Manager from Chauvet came on this board and told you that you are wrong. I assume you must think he is lying.

I agree that companies buy fixtures from other companies on a regular basis. However those deals always include a provision that prevents them from selling them in the same market, under the threat of heavy monetary penalty. Plus obviously losing that business partner.

I am sure that chauvet has sold many more of that fixture than MS lighting has. If Chauvet caught an OEM selling one of their fixtures rebranded, there is 0% chance they ever would use them again for another fixture. That is a much larger loss of sales than they ever could bring in selling the same fixture on the side.

There would be no benefit for any OEM manufacturer selling the same product for cheaper in the same market as the company buying the OEM product.

Once again, IT MAKES NO SENSE for a OEM to sell to the same market that their client is selling to.

You are blatantly wrong and made an poor ethical choice and are now trying justify it.
Good luck with that and your knock off fixtures.

I can't say about this particular fixture or brand. But I can tell you that I have seen first hand that what I said previous is correct. It is common practice for say.. a 1500 watt strobe to be made at one place - or city - because they have several dies and pre-fab products ready to go. I have been there when a major company selects a product, modifies it, has a unit manufactured and approves it. I have been personally offered product that was made for a certain USA company by the plant that made it. I know for a fact I can make 500 of them with my own name printed on the fixture if I choose to do.

China does not operate under the same ethics and legal system as the USA. There are very few if any patents in any of these entry line products. There are very little infringements because almost every product has a basic selection of features. Most importantly USA company X did not Invent said product.. they merely picked the featureset they wanted on their par64 LED and had them made to spec.

I didn't mean to start a big argument here. I am merely excited to see some bigger powered LED low cost fixtures come into our marketplace and I anxiously await reviews.

[Jeffhtg]

Back on topic.

I will throw in my .02 from a nightclub I visited today. 1 Year old Chauvet Qspot 260's look to be in fairly good working order. Typical club that doesn't clean their stuff. 10 of them - next to another 2 dozen mirrored fixtures they may have been Scan LED 300's. Some of the scanners had some problems - but I could easily attribute any problems to them being dirty as crap. I also could not really tell if the output was there.. because they were dirty as crap.

The important information here is: A nightclub that doesn't clean their lights has a significant rig of these entry line sub $1000 fixtures and they are working a year later. The cheaper stuff - led truss warmers= slim pars, some bars of some sort, and some larger pars almost all had missing leds in them (alot of red's were out). The club was in the process of sending most of the wash stuff back in for repair. I have seen this sort of thing quite a bit.

[jfetter]

...I didn't mean to start a big argument here.

I don't think anyone should appologize for having a respectful conversation, even if not in complete agreement. After all, why come to a place full of people with similar interests if we all think the same, what would anyone learn?

Jack

[Gern]

...why come to a place full of people with similar interests if we all think the same, what would anyone learn? Jack

Well Jack, I respectfully say that there is a lot to be learned. Was that you that said, "say what you mean, mean what you say"?
Certainly, IMHO, just because we have similar interests, we sure as heck do not have the same knowledge, experience, skill sets, or college or university lighting education, the last of which I have none. My degree is in Fire Science. I did put out a small curtain fire from a par64 on stage during my first pro gig. I just spun the par away from the curtain, and slapped the rag with the back of my hand, knocking out the flames. So simple, yet so effective as others literally ran around yelling fire!

As I've posted elsewhere I sure look up to so many of the CB'ers, I have realized my limitations and lack of knowledge and actually had reflextion on my early career to the point of thinking, "what if.." as in what if I'd really applied myself and got some degrees like those I look up to. I don't dwell on it, it passes, and I go on being happy I get to do what I do, and I look forward to getting on set & running consoles.
Yes, It may not be as great a feeling as when I save someones life(over 14 so far), or when I saved someones home from being destroyed by fire(2 confirmed), but my stage work is very rewarding to me and still every day gives me a pleasant buzz.
As most of you lucky people know, there is a cool vibe you get when working on a 'Live' show.

[chausman]

there is a cool vibe you get when working on a 'Live' show.

Well, almost live!

While we all have somewhat the same interests, most of us are here to learn something. This is an educational forum after all. Part of what makes CB so great is that we have support from so many major companies like ETC and Apollo, Elation, Chauvet, and more. We have people from every level of experience. People who have been in the industry forever to people who are working on their first show in high school with their 8 dimmers and little leprechaun board, and everyone in between. Just as great as learning how you can make your show the best, sometimes, is helping someone else do the same thing.

[jfetter]

As most of you lucky people know, there is a cool vibe you get when working on a 'Live' show.

I've had some great moments in life but the feeling at that moment the house lights dim and the crowd senses the show is about to start... nothing like it! It doesn't matter if you're the one on stage or working the show...

[derekleffew]

Non-relevant posts have been moved to http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/o...8-rc-jets.html .

[Reno]

I just purchased 4 x 60W LED Moving Heads, they appear to be the Q-Spot 260 LED but calling them "generic" IMO is unfair as they are in-fact the real thing. I sometimes am surprised folks assume the Chinese can't do something without guidance or someone else's know how, clearly these were designed and built in China and Chauvet just rebrands them for resale. Now having the manual in front of me, it's very clear the products are identical, same design, same dimensions, same features, same DMX channels, same firmware menus and options, you get the point. The main difference is the cost, $420 each (order of 4 units) including shipping from China, that's a big difference...

I also have one of these knock offs. I am having an issue with the LED being very dim. I have tried to reset the unit but no luck. Has anyone else had this issue or know how to resolve it. It is about 60% when it turns on but goes very dim fast.