Surge protector, UPS, or ?

[JLNorthGA]

I typically use surge protection on my PCs (except maybe my laptop).

That being said, we are finalizing the light booth electrical for our little playhouse.

I was definitely going to use a surge protector for the console and monitors. Should I use a UPS instead? I can get a 550 VA UPS for about $70. It will easily supply power for the monitors and console for over an hour. It will provide surge protection as an added benefit. A decent surge protector costs $15-20. I can easily find something else on which to spend $50 if I can get buy with just a surge protector.

[chausman]

I would get the UPS. If your having issues with power, the last thing you want is to loose control while your console reboots. Especially if you are in an area where power is less reliable. To me its a justifiable cost.

[Gern]

Should I use a UPS?

While I've never seen any UPS on an Ion at the ETC training classes, I would never run a console with out one.
I might have spent too much on my APC SC1500's($350), but I wanted rack mount units, and for all I could comprehend, SC1500 will do fine. The SC1500's are not a true sine wave but will be OK. ETC approved it; APC said if my console didn't like the mod. sine wave, the console would shut down immediately on loss of mains input. I have heard it kick into service at least 12 times in the past year, and the Ion hasn't skipped a beat or shut down.
Now, I caught Steve Terry's mention of, what was it, "snake oil', in the makings of some UPS's in another thread? Maybe the only difference are bells & whistles I don't care about.
I'd sure like a clear schooling on the subject, not just the sales pitches.
I do not need or want the 'extras' like, connecting to my computer for monitoring and such.
I notice GMA's going out from PRG with APC Back-UPS 450, so I'd guess they offer the necessary protection.
I really wanted a clean rack mount unit I didn't have to spend time fabricating into a case. The next nicer APC rack mount is a true sine wave unit going for over $700.
Unless I missed something, this SC1500 also makes it so that I don't need to buy a separate Furman type conditioner as well.

[Chris15]

To me, the question is relatively simple...
Does the equipment I am considering protecting take more than one second between when it gets power and it's operational. if yes, UPS it. If no, then maybe UPS is not needed.

There is something to be said for the fact that most UPSes will beep loudly when they go to battery if there is risk of the device beng accidentally unplugged

[derekleffew]

...Now, I caught Steve Terry's mention of, what was it, "snake oil', in the makings of some UPS's in another thread? ...

Sad to say, but one of the reasons many surge protection systems are very expensive is the high percentage of snake oil mixed into the product. ...

-----

...I notice GMA's going out from PRG with APC Back-UPS 450, so I'd guess they offer the necessary protection. ...

Particularly interesting when one considers that most GMA s have a built-in UPS.

In a power loss event, the UPS provides time to save to disk, and prevents what is often a long boot-up time on many devices. Most electricians I know put one at FOH for the console, and another at dimmer beach for opto-splitter s and/or networking devices.

UPS=good; surge protector=not so much.

[SteveB]

Yes, UPS the consoles. Better then watching a painful boot while the rest of the theater awaits.

OTOH, if it's a more modern dimmer rack, sometimes the CEM's can take as along as the console to come back......

And as to snake oil, I've had repeated conversations with tech. support over the years as to related (or not) issues and am always reminded to change the batteries on the UPS's every year. I'm certain that APS makes ALL their income from replacement batteries, just like ink cartridges have kept HP afloat.

Someday someone will fill me in on WHY every year on the batteries.

[DaveySimps]

We have a UPS on our digital sound boards and light boards. They have saved us several times when we experienced quick loses of power and brief brownouts. It gives you plenty of time to save a show and shut down properly, as has been mentioned.

It is worth spending a little more money for a better unit. In our smaller space we originally went with some more cost effective units, but they only lasted a couple of years or so before the UPS batteries failed. Out existing ones even came with a USB connection and simple software that monitors the power constantly so we have data to look to if we suspect any power issues. It is a nice added feature.

~Dave

[cbrandt]

I've heard road guys swear up and down that a ups connected to the console during programming would mess things up, but were fine with it for playback. Anyone have info to confirm this? I've never experienced any problem during programming with a ups that I couldn't attribute to my own mistakes ::.

[DaveySimps]

Electrically speaking, I cannot see where this makes sense. They provide constant power. Most models have a lot more capacitance and filtering and provide a power source better than a standard outlet. If there were ever to be an issue that occurs, it would be when it switches to the battery power, and I think this would have to be better than loosing power all together.

~Dave

[cbrandt]

I've also never understood why or what it could possibly hurt. Sounds to me like something someone misheard, and took as gospel. I'd never trade the UPS for some unnoticeable difference in programming.

Maybe a sound guy had a particularly good joke on his new lighting guy.

[TimMiller]

There are also other ups systems out there such as tripplite and cyber power. I bought a cyber power ups for my computer and one nice feature besides the true sinewave out put and the estimated run time va used, input and output voltages is that you can set it on silence so you do not get the loud beep. It also records all power events on its event monitor. I also like how all the ups functions are available through the front panel. I got a 1350va for around 150 on sale. I seem to have issues with apc, they are more expensive than other brands and they do not live as long. I moved away from them when I had one short out a battery bank and blow up the batteries inside of our server rack. Had a tripplite in there for about 6 years and it's still going fine on original batteries.

[DaveySimps]

I've also never understood why or what it could possibly hurt. Sounds to me like something someone misheard, and took as gospel. I'd never trade the UPS for some unnoticeable difference in programming.

Maybe a sound guy had a particularly good joke on his new lighting guy.

No that this EVER happens in our industry.

~Dave

[MNicolai]

This is less a reply to the OP and more a general statement to any sound/lighting console manufacturers out there, like STEVETERRY and bharrell.

I'm a big fan of what ETC has put in my full-size Congo. It has a built-in ride-thru option. Depending on how long the console has been on and how well charged the battery is, the console can survive a brownout for 5-30 seconds. It's on the lower end of that when the console is turned off immediately after use, and on the upper end of that when it's been left on for a couple weeks at a time.

No need for an external UPS unless I need to go several minutes without power or need to keep the displays online, but displays will come back on right away with the power and more than 15 seconds downtime and I have no expectation of getting the show going right away again anyway.

It is surprising to me that I have not seen this option built into other sound and lighting consoles. It's not in my Congo Jr., not in my LS9, not in an M7, I'm pretty certain it's not in our Light Palette VL, and I know it's not in the two shiny new DiGiCo SD9's were about to drop some serious dough on.

[chausman]

OTOH, if it's a more modern dimmer rack, sometimes the CEM's can take as along as the console to come back......

I wonder if there is the possibility of putting the CEM on a UPS? Certainly not something to try without ETC's approval.

[Woodj32177]

I typically use surge protection on my PCs (except maybe my laptop).

That being said, we are finalizing the light booth electrical for our little playhouse.

I was definitely going to use a surge protector for the console and monitors. Should I use a UPS instead? I can get a 550 VA UPS for about $70. It will easily supply power for the monitors and console for over an hour. It will provide surge protection as an added benefit. A decent surge protector costs $15-20. I can easily find something else on which to spend $50 if I can get buy with just a surge protector.

My Desks always have a UPS along with them.
However, I almost never plug the monitors into the battery backup side.
Often times my shows are loud enough that the beeping noise that happens on mains loss is not loud enough to be heard over the show.
However the monitors shutting off usually will be noticed.

[BobHealey]

We have a UPS on our digital sound boards and light boards. They have saved us several times when we experienced quick loses of power and brief brownouts. It gives you plenty of time to save a show and shut down properly, as has been mentioned.

It is worth spending a little more money for a better unit. In our smaller space we originally went with some more cost effective units, but they only lasted a couple of years or so before the UPS batteries failed. Out existing ones even came with a USB connection and simple software that monitors the power constantly so we have data to look to if we suspect any power issues. It is a nice added feature.

~Dave

You UPS batteries should last a lot more than a year unless they're constantly being run down to zero. In the data center I run for my day job, I swap batteries every 5 years, since that is the upper end of the expected life of my battery modules according to APC. I've had some units go as long as seven years (inherited from other departments) before the batteries failed. Almost all my units are APC Smartups from 1000VA to 5000VA. Not sure why your batteries are failing so quickly.

[JD]

As for the beeping sound, nothing that a skilled tech, 5 minutes and a soldering iron can't fix.

Most UPSs do put out stepped square wave, however, PC power supplies are fine with that. (In most cases, the same type of power supply that is in the board.)

Never heard of "Don't use a UPS during programing." One would think that is the exact time you would need it! Still, these urban legends usually have some grain of fact. Could be there was once a board that had problems with the stepped waveform... (fill in your own story.) I always use them.

My only reservation has to do with the fact that MOVs have a lifespan. Usually the batteries on the cheap (UPSs) ones go after 3 to 5 years and I change out the whole unit. Old MOVs sometimes flame out. High quality MOVs have a large surface area and are usually encased in sand, thus a better lifespan. Cheap MOVs look like a disk capacitor. The wafer gets slightly damaged every time there is a surge. This damage accumulates over time.

[starksk]

I wonder if there is the possibility of putting the CEM on a UPS? Certainly not something to try without ETC's approval.

Sensor Classic and Sensor+ Racks would require you to put the entire rack on a UPS or Normal/Emergency power source to prevent the CEM/CEM+ from rebooting. Sensor3 racks, however, have a Ride-Thru or Battery Backup option available to keep the CEM3 alive during a power event. The Ride-Thru option provides approx. 10-15 seconds of power for short fluctuations. The Battery Backup will provide up to 45 minutes of power for a sustained power event.

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[STEVETERRY]

Now, I caught Steve Terry's mention of, what was it, "snake oil', in the makings of some UPS's in another thread? Maybe the only difference are bells & whistles I don't care about.

My snake oil comments were directed only to surge protectors, not UPS's.

ST

[museav]

I think many of the stories about and comments on UPSs, surge protectors, line conditioners, etc. are the result of misunderstanding some of the basics.

A surge protector protects against extreme power surges like lightning hits. They are there to protect the equipment in those extreme situations and not to address undervoltage, overvoltage, voltage sags, brownouts, etc. A surge protector may serve a whole building, a distribution panel, a single circuit or just the connected equipment. A surge protector may also be MOV based, which sacrifices a bit of itself, and thus its ability to protect the next time, every time it provides any protection, or they may be series mode, which can keep right on going without any loss in protection. SurgeX has been using the same demo unit at shows for years and it has taken the equivalent of literally thousands of lightning hits and still works fine, not so for the MOVs used in the same demonstrations (I've seen one take two hits to fail, the rest went on the first).

A line or power conditioner provides 'clean' AC power. There is little standard definition for what such a unit does although there will typically be some filtering and maybe some power regulation, it may even simply shut down if the voltage goes outside some defined conditions.

A UPS provides uninterruptible power, if mains power is lost it automatically switches to run off an internal battery and inverter until the mains power returns. A UPS may or may not incorporate surge protection and/or line conditioning, although very few incorporate series mode rather than MOV surge protection. There are also multiple types of UPS units. The most basic type is offline or standby and these simply run off the AC power until an undervoltage or overvoltage condition is sensed at which point they switch to the battery and inverter. Probably the most common type of UPS is the line interactive type, essentially an offline unit with the addition of a multi-tap transformer, during mild under/over voltage conditions the transformer switches taps and the battery is used only if the incoming power goes outside those for which the transformer can compensate. The downside of both offline and line interactive UPS devices is that as they switch taps or from mains to battery there is a momentary disruption in the output, to which some devices are sensitive and may be the cause for the comments regarding it potentially being problematic during programming Thus the third type of UPS, the online or double conversion type, which essentially always runs off the battery and inverter, providing a very stable output at all times, even if mains power drops. Online/double conversion units usually cost more but with sensitive electronics are often worth the additional cost. As JD noted, a UPS may also output either an approximated or stepped sine wave or true sine wave. Expect to typically pay more for true sine wave output and many computers and general equipment do not necessarily need true sine wave output.

Line/power conditioning is not that common in professional technical power systems, however surge suppression and UPSs are. Before there were UPS units with integrated series mode surge protection I would often use a series mode surge suppression device and a UPS in series.

As far as surge suppression being full of 'snake oil', I think that may be true of some products and approaches, however there can be significant differences between products and how they are applied and I try to always provide critical computer or processor based components with appropriate surge suppression and an online/double conversion UPS.

[JD]

Series type surge suppressors are not as common as the MOV units. We have one on our photocopier. Basically, it contains a series of chokes and capacitors. (Yes, of course I took it apart!) Noise filters look the same, but the values for a surge suppressor are much higher. (Chokes in this one were wound with #10 on a ferrite core.) In addition, it contains a relay. If the steady state voltage goes above a certain point (on this one is was 140 volts) The relay drops out, shutting down the load. As mentioned above, since it is not MOV based, it has a much greater lifespan. They are not cheap, but in some applications, they are worth it. Its pretty easy to identify this type of suppressor as it weighs so much more, and has the distinct "click" of the relay as you plug it in. On this unit, there was also a triac which I suspect was part of a "if all else fails" crowbar circuit. (Brand was NextGen)

[Nelson]

Also, for the beeping, on APC SmartUPS (and possibly other units), the alarm function is defined in software. If you install the Power-whatever-it-is software, you can set the UPS to beep on power loss, beep just before battery exhaustion, or not beep at all. That setting is stored in non-volatile memory, so you don't have to keep the UPS connected to a computer. Just program it once and you are done. I've never installed a UPS somewhere where I needed a beeper to tell me that the power is off, so I just disable the beeper. On older units, I've reprogrammed them with wire cutters as well !

My console is not on a UPS, but after reading through the discussion here, maybe I should get a UPS for it. The dimmers (Leviton iSeries) seem to be good about holding the last look, even after a brief outage, but it still might be a good idea.