Control/Dimming - Help identifying an old Console

[mozsey]

Hey all, about a year ago I designed a dance show for a local dance studio. The console I worked with was an old console, but I don't know how old. The most I remember about it is that it was analog, I'm gussing using the AMX192 protocol but I'm not certain. It required a key to turn on, yes an actual physical key. I think it was a 48 channel two scene preset. As far as I remember, it was always in two scene. 96 faders total. You could control timing through a potentiometer and it could go up to 5 minutes I think. The lower 48 faders could also be used as submasters, with 6 independent submasters to the side. If I'm not mistaken, everything to patch the board was to the side of the unit, an add on.

I wish I had snapped a picture of it, but I didn't. I hope that was enough info.

-Aaron

[derekleffew]

Any other identifying characteristics you can think of? It sounds like a 48 ch. two-scene preset console from any number of manufacturers: Strand-Century, Kliegl Bros., Colortran, Electro Controls, EDI, TTI, LMI, Teatronics, and so on.

If forced to guess, I would say some variety of Strand-Century Mantrix:

Strand Century MANTRIX 2S

[jstandfast]

I'm with you there. The version the OP was referring to is the Mantrix 2s.

[Van]

Dang, Derek beat me to it again !

The clincher was the Potentiometer. It was actually a four scene preset as there was a "hold" button. You would set all the levels, press the hold button, then you could clear all the levels. The hold button stored levels until you brought up the A or B master to full on it's respective scene. I like to regale young-uns with stories of doing a show that had 156 cues in just under 90 minutes of run time. I had a guy who stood beside me and just read off levels.
Thank God for that fade timer !

[MPowers]

.........I like to regale young-uns with stories of doing a show that had 156 cues in just under 90 minutes of run time. I had a guy who stood beside me and just read off levels. Thank God for that fade timer !

Van, that's just a pebble in the lake. Long, Long ago, In a galaxy far, far away I learned to light shows where it took a stage hand for every 14 to 28 dimmers (not channels, dimmers), patching was with 2.5" x 6" full or half stage plugs into open porcelain sockets on the bank above the dimmer handles. Our LD learned from Jean and helped teach Theron. A musical with only 300 cues was rare. Later in my life I designed "MAME" with a 120 dimmer, ten scene preset, 600 circuit patch panel system. That's 1200 individual sliders and 600 patch cords with 360 sockets to plug into, if you want to count. The show had 382 cues, 83 of which happened in the "open a new Window" sequence. For those of you not familiar with the show, that sequence starts in Mame's home, a window unit flies in and transports Mame and young Patrick to a "new Wave" school, a 50's modern dance studio, a speakeasy, a police paddy wagon, ...... a total of 86 light cues in about 8 minutes of time. Two girls on the preset panels, two guys on the patch panel, and the guy at the main console praying the others had finished their work by the time he had to move the sub masters for the next cue. At least it was a step up from the Piano Board era.

[mozsey]

Any other identifying characteristics you can think of? It sounds like a 48 ch. two-scene preset console from any number of manufacturers: Strand-Century, Kliegl Bros., Colortran, Electro Controls, EDI, TTI, LMI, Teatronics, and so on.

If forced to guess, I would say some variety of Strand-Century Mantrix:

Strand Century MANTRIX 2S

Yes, that's it! the Mantrix! I kept searching for matrix, so I guess I was on the right page. Thank you.

[Les]

If you want one, there's one on eBay right now .

Excuse me, there are five on eBay right now.

[mozsey]

Haha, no. I didn't want one. I was talking to one of the gals in the show, and remembered that I hated doing a dance show with that console. I almost went out and rented an Express!

[Les]

You sure? There's one for $9.99 buy-it-now. If you have a hammer around, you could definitely relieve some anger and pent up frustrations.

[mozsey]

Oh dear, that is pretty tempting....But I still think 10 dollars is a little much for that board

[mozsey]

Well Les, quick question I hope you read it, is there a converter that will let me use this on a DMX based system. I guess I could always use one to teach the underlings before they get to the ION or smartfade.

[chausman]

Well Les, quick question I hope you read it, is there a converter that will let me use this on a DMX based system. I guess I could always use one to teach the underlings before they get to the ION or smartfade.

I don't even know what protocol it uses to search for a converter... From the manual, it must be something proprietary. To be honest, I think trying to teach on that, then move to other concepts on the other console may be more confusing then anything. It's one thing to teach basic lighting design with something small like that, and trying to teach how the system works, and the console "thinks" with something completely different.

[mozsey]

I don't even know what protocol it uses to search for a converter... From the manual, it must be something proprietary. To be honest, I think trying to teach on that, then move to other concepts on the other console may be more confusing then anything. It's one thing to teach basic lighting design with something small like that, and trying to teach how the system works, and the console "thinks" with something completely different.

Well it would be more of a, "this is how you bring a slider up, this is how you make a look using faders." and the moving on from that to how to save on digital boards.

[derekleffew]

I don't even know what protocol it uses to search for a converter... From the manual, it must be something proprietary. ...

Well, you're sort of correct. From its introduction in 1979 to 1986, it used the proprietary CD80 protocol, which later became AMX192.

Here is one protocol converter: Theatrical Lighting AMX to DMX Protocol Converter and Auto Sequence Control Device, N0501-3 : Lighting Control Networking . They are rare because few want to use an older console with newer dimmers. Normally the consoles expire long before dimmers. On the other hand, the Mantrix had many desirable features which even today's "modern" two-scene preset boards lack.

And it's not all that different from a SmartFade, just simpler and easier to use.

[mozsey]

Well, you're sort of correct. From its introduction in 1979 to 1986, it used the proprietary CD80 protocol, which later became AMX192.

Here is one protocol converter: Theatrical Lighting AMX to DMX Protocol Converter and Auto Sequence Control Device, N0501-3 : Lighting Control Networking . They are rare because few want to use an older console with newer dimmers. Normally the consoles expire long before dimmers. On the other hand, the Mantrix had many desirable features which even today's "modern" two-scene preset boards lack.

And it's not all that different from a SmartFade, just simpler and easier to use.

So it would be an okay idea to use this to teach?

[Les]

I think for basic things, yes, but do keep in mind that there's no guarantee the board in question even works at all. I appears that it at least needs some fader caps and possibly a new fader (potentiometer). Lack of these parts wouldn't render the unit unusable, but it's certainly a gamble if you're also going to fork over the money for a converter to even test it. That said, really old (but good condition) boards pop up on eBay fairly regularly. Not many for $9.99, though.

[church]

I think for basic things, yes, but do keep in mind that there's no guarantee the board in question even works at all. I appears that it at least needs some fader caps and possibly a new fader (potentiometer). Lack of these parts wouldn't render the unit unusable, but it's certainly a gamble if you're also going to fork over the money for a converter to even test it. That said, really old (but good condition) boards pop up on eBay fairly regularly. Not many for $9.99, though.

I just cleaned out some spare parts for a mantrix. I think I have a working Lightboard M on the shelves.

BTW I like boards with an ignition key One thing with the older boards without an opearting system at least when you turn the key they start up real quick - especially if you give them some "choke" on a cold morning.

[church]

reading this thread makes me feel old. We should have a poll on who has run shows on the different generations of boards/dimmers:

resistance
saturated reactance
SCR/analogue control multipreset
and so on

[derekleffew]

reading this thread makes me feel old. We should have a poll on who has run shows on the different generations of boards/dimmers:

resistance
saturated reactance
SCR/analogue control multipreset
and so on

Well, we had this thread: Your first Memory Lighting Console which degenerated somewhat into "I memorized my cues, so it must have been a memory board." See also the collaborative article: Memory Lighting Control Systems, History - ControlBooth .

[venuetech]

Key number was 2001 (think HAL 9k) and the mantrix had everything but an X and Y

[Les]

BTW I like boards with an ignition key One thing with the older boards without an opearting system at least when you turn the key they start up real quick - especially if you give them some "choke" on a cold morning.

I do too, but it's a real pain when one needs a jump.

[Van]

So it would be an okay idea to use this to teach?

I think every kid should learn to run a show on a manual board..... but then I think everyone should learn to operate a Carbon arc spotlight as well.......

[techieman33]

It's just the control board that's $10, it's not the whole console. We still have 2 of the Mantrix 2s in use pretty regularly. One sits down in our 36 dimmer black box and the other sits on our main stage and is used for school time theater, speaking events, etc when there is no reason to have someone sitting at the pearl at FOH.

[derekleffew]

...We still have 2 of the Mantrix 2s in use pretty regularly. ...

What AMX-DMX protocol converter do you use with them?

[techieman33]

We use the DMX2AMX converter from Doug Fleenor, and wow it's gone up in price a lot.

Doug Fleenor Design - DMX512 to AMX192 Converter

[derekleffew]

We use the DMX2AMX converter from Doug Fleenor, and wow it's gone up in price a lot.

Doug Fleenor Design - DMX512 to AMX192 Converter

But that's going the wrong way to get from a Mantrix to (any DMX512 dimmer). Perhaps they had/have an AMX2DMX converter that was less pricey?

[techieman33]

But that's going the wrong way to get from a Mantrix to (any DMX512 dimmer). Perhaps they had/have an AMX2DMX converter that was less pricey?

Wow, total brain fart. We don't convert the mantrix since our CD80's are still AMX, the converter is for the pearl.

[MPowers]

reading this thread makes me feel old. We should have a poll on who has run shows on the different generations of boards/dimmers:resistance, saturated reactance, SCR/analogue control multipreset and so on

Cool poll, hope some one does it. for me: If you count my mother's March of Dimes presentations in the early 50's, I started on Salt water dimmers, graduated to Piano Boards, Davis slider dimers, and one of the "great" Davis slider patch panels, the early Kliegl SCR two scene (console was a metal desk enclosed about 48" wide, 36" high and 30 " front to back, with a major patch panel and dimmer rack that served two performance spaces, then the great Century Edkotrons with home made cross faders, to a Skirpan 120 dimmer/ten scene preset to a Kliegl performer to an Electro Controls (don't remember the exact model, probably intential memory loss) to a strand Light Pallete II, to moving out of lighting to motion control and engineering and rigging.