Favorite Edison Plug

[Nelson]

Here is a question for everyone: What is your favorite 5-15 Edison connector for 12/3 SO cable?

My favorite has always been the hard-to-find Bryant 5266N (male) and 5269N (female) connectors. They seem to be well-made connectors that can actually handle full-size 12/3 SO cable. However, I just ordered more connectors and guess what -- they're MADE IN CHINA now! They were always US-made in the past. Worse, they are not the same connector at all that they used to be. They are made of thin plastic and don't seem to handle 12/3 SO very well at all. I'm very disappointed in the new Bryant plugs, so I'm looking for something different.

I've tried the Hubbell Vari-Size plugs that are common, but I've never liked the strain relief at all for 12/3 SO cable. I've made sure I bought the extra-large cord grip style and I'm still not as happy with them as I was the Bryant plugs.

[gafftapegreenia]

Activating the ship signal.

[bishopthomas]

I've been using a leviton connector. They're available at Home Depot for those last minute cabling needs.

[BGW]

These are FANTASTIC plugs. http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/Produ...minisite=10251

I also like Ericson plugs- they'll never fail. But good luck finding them locally. Perma-Grip Medium Industrial Plugs and Connectors - EZ Cord Grip Nut on Ericson Mfg

Arrow-Hart makes good plugs as well.

Anything's better than the old-style Eagle plugs. They last pretty well but they're terrible to get on the cables and they are some of the most vulnerable to getting the cable pulled out of the clamp.

[derekleffew]

Edison Plugs for SOOW Cables

Activating the ship signal.

new Edison Plugs

[ship]

Bat Signal recieved but a search on the website will have revealed earlier topics on this conversation for preferences.

Leviton #5266-CB for 12ga and especially 12/3 SO cable I buy a few hundred of per year. Plus it's all black. The Hubbell industry standard mostly (Like Rosco being an industry standard for gel), don't properly fit 12ga cable and especially not SO grade.

This especially when peple dogmatically screw down the cord grip as tight as they can get it to a closed condition. Ever cut away at the cord grip on a 12/3 SJOOW cable at a cord grip when a "Manufacturer/supplier" does a Hubbell cord grip? Cord grip it too tensioned and the cord grip grips the cable all right in screw tension, but the rubber insulation about the cord grip is forced out of the way in doing so. What was once like 1/16" worth of insulation about conductors, and another on the outer jacket is now like 1/64" worth of insulation on outer jacket and insulation between conductors. A bit tight in a way that I have seen by way of flexing the cable at the plug there has been shorts. Copper conductors cutting thru insulation at the cord grip due flexing of the cable at the cord grip. For a Leviton above plug on 12/3 SJOOW cable for instance, I specify 1/16" gap between cord grip top and bottom assembly for proper cord grip. A fully screwed down Hubbell one, that's a problem in the making. You want just ever so much a bit of wiggle to your cord grip, a cut away of your tensioning at that point of tensioning on what you do will best show whats' gripped too much or not enough overall.

Often it's not the plug, it's the person installing it fault. Also the rattle test is needed overall when pulling cable. Wire expands and contracts and the higher amperage load thru it, the more so it does so. Edison cable, if you shake it's plug/connectors and they rattle, it's a clear indication that something inside it is loose and should not be used until fixed. Above, expansion and contraction, perhaps this plug was once tensioned properly but with use, thrown about the stage or in the back of a truck, conductors have settled more, and or with expansion and contraction with current running thru it, the conductors have settled. You now have loose wire inside a plug. The higher the amperage load, the more chance you will see this - 60A stage pin plugs yearly have to be inspected for instance. A 30A plug after it's first use certainly is often loose no matter over tightening in torque to compensate. Beyond the cord grip, often it would seem to someone fixing failed cable that the person installing the plug didn't tension it enough as often the case with a loose ground wire, but also often there was other reasons why especially a new cable might not seem to be tensioned sufficiently at the terminal. Short of pulling all new made cable and redoing all the tension, or pre-testing for each cable under load for a while.. no simple fixes.

Not totally satified with the Leviton and indeed for 14ga or smaller cable, Hubble might be your brand of choice in better for the amperage rating cord grip designed for smaller cables. There is lots of reasons to choose a plug based on cord grip type, this much less ability of that plug head to fit insulation into it's surrounds. Than there is the pulling thru truss concept. Love the yellow and black Pass and Seymore plug most in style and cord grip and options. Square backed don't help if pulling it thru a bunch of stuff though.

Eagle style metal body type connectors while can be rated for the purpose are fine - them screws catch on everything and often strip out in cord grip. Than you add a nylock nut and still while best and easiest to form a cord grip for, still they hang up on everything and given above people want to see an all plastic plug - this no matter how insulated, the metal bodied Edison plug is still frouned upon for use no matter the grade.

Here is a question, and while I have the receptacle, don't have the plug. (Saw one but didn't buy it in pre-museum and now lost years later.) What year would a ceramic "Crows Foot" plug date to? What would be it's use?

[IEGPR]

I have never liked metal connectors of any brand. Also every plug from home depot or any gen home repair store has poven to be less then up to spec in my eyes. Maybe because I work for a school dristirct and we buy form a commercial suply house. I have had the best luck with Hubbell products.

[Nelson]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I will check out the links that everyone provided. I'm still a little surprised that Hubbell doesn't make a better connector for this application.

[ship]

Spoken with vendor reps from both Leviton and Hubbell on these problems over the years.

Really I don't prefer the Leviton for thinner cables, and if of help in Hubbell better overall for them smaller somewhat.

One might for the metal style outer shell say "Eagle" style plug for them with it per common brand/term.

The commercial grade of Hubbel and Leviton plug are differnt than the metal shell further in an inner plastic isolating ring. Of that ring, Hubbell isn't designed for 12ga cable as a difference in plug head. This beyond both in problems in cord grip. For cord grip, this moring helped my guys install 67x Leviton L6-15 plugs on PowerCon whips. (hate the powercon.)

This once all factory supplied powercon plugs/whips were taken apart and tensioned properly in terminal. Remember, it's you as the end result in wiring up plugs thus be suspicious of what others wire. Above factory Powercons were at least half turn too lose.


For this size even metric cable the Hubbell will have been fine. Cable whip roughly like the metric size of a 14 or 12 gauge wire inside a SJE or SJT jacket.

Overall what I most hate is Pozi-drive in general, and the "it's a philips and slotted screw" Than it's a philips and slotted plus square drive screw. More metal from a screw you remove as told to vendors of plugs in asking, the easier to strip out, but perhaps that is the concept in selling more plugs. Not easier on the jobsite over selling more plugs with easier to strip out terminals and screws. Pozi-Drive, think that's mostly a manufacturer money savings in stripping out less phillips type drivers on the maker production line. That or a French' thing. Can't see any other advantave of such a drive system. Way too many job offers over the years from suppliers at this point to other than be suspisious of the how and why.

No it's not easier or better to be both Philips and slotted. And Leviton verses Hubbel, neither better overall and or othere brands. For certain wirings others a better but overall in working, the Leviton is most what I use.

[BGW]

I hear ya, Ship. I've rounded off so many of those dang screws...

I would love it if they made plugs with Torx screws. They grip very well if you're using the proper driver, and it keeps inexperienced nincompoops from taking plugs apart/putting them on with reversed connections.

[venuetech]

Super-Safeway by Molex
Or Woodhead as they were once known

[Nelson]

I don't know about Torx in this application. My luck I'd need to make an emergency repair and wouldn't have the proper bit handy. I always carry a Philips and flat, but don't always have a Torx.

I don't mind PoziDriv screws. I usually have PoziDriv bits, and the Philips that I always carry seems to fit fine in PoziDriv screws without trouble. You just can't use a Philips bit that is a size too small in a PoziDriv head.

So, just so I'm clear, what is the biggest trouble with metal-shell plugs? I'm not trying to advocate for them, just curious what the trouble is with them. I do realize that they generally won't fit 12/3 SO, but otherwise, what trouble do they have?

While we are on the subject, what about old rubber plugs like what I would call the "Rodale style"? I still have some of them in service on smaller cables. They still work fine, but I don't know how they would hold up to theater use (I use them at home).

[gafftapegreenia]

Not sure what my "favorite" is but I"m rather fond of the Pass & Seymour / legrand line. I think they have a rather versatile strain relief on this model in particular: MaxGrip M3 Plug, Yellow, PS5965Y

And for some reason another one I'm fond of is the old Eagle style solid yellow plug. I've seen so many of these that have clearly been used and abused but are still going. http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...4409_4509.html

How come no one uses/makes a straight bladed device that uses crimp terminals? Union Connector STOPPED making pressure plate terminals for their 2P&G connectors because of all the problems with them loosening over time. Why do we still tolerate direct termination in straight bladed NEMA devices?

[gafftapegreenia]

I don't know about Torx in this application. My luck I'd need to make an emergency repair and wouldn't have the proper bit handy. I always carry a Philips and flat, but don't always have a Torx.

I don't mind PoziDriv screws. I usually have PoziDriv bits, and the Philips that I always carry seems to fit fine in PoziDriv screws without trouble. You just can't use a Philips bit that is a size too small in a PoziDriv head.

So, just so I'm clear, what is the biggest trouble with metal-shell plugs? I'm not trying to advocate for them, just curious what the trouble is with them. I do realize that they generally won't fit 12/3 SO, but otherwise, what trouble do they have?

While we are on the subject, what about old rubber plugs like what I would call the "Rodale style"? I still have some of them in service on smaller cables. They still work fine, but I don't know how they would hold up to theater use (I use them at home).

If you are carrying Pozi bits, why not carry Torx bits?

My biggest problem with the metal shell style (especially Leviton's) is that the strain relief screws strip out their threads far far far to easily.

[BGW]

How come no one uses/makes a straight bladed device that uses crimp terminals? Union Connector STOPPED making pressure plate terminals for their 2P&G connectors because of all the problems with them loosening over time. Why do we still tolerate direct termination in straight bladed NEMA devices?

I always thought it was because straight bladed NEMA devices have solid prongs, whereas the pins on a stage pin plug are a little wiggly. A good NEMA plug will never have the pressure plates loosen because the strain relief/clamp will keep the wires from shifting and the prongs never move.

Nelson, good point. I like metal shelled plugs- I just don't like trying to fit them onto large cables. Most of them don't have enough room for beefy wire connections, and I've found that the clamps don't always grip like they should.

[Nelson]

I carry Torx bits in the same case as my Pozi bits, I just don't always have that case with me. However, I can make a good #2 Philips work in a PoziDriv head whereas I can't make a Philips work in a Torx head.

It seems like Union or Rosco or similar company would make an Edison plug especially for stage use that addresses all the issues we are talking about, such as strain relief, crimp terminals, and so on.

[ship]

This is a form of the “Valiece” type plug as called. Huge not a fan of it unless I have to fit a smaller plug into a hole in tubing. Most brands make them and why I don’t like them is primarily how put together in that hinge. Hinge breaks during tensioning of the screw terminals and is just plain hard on the hand if assembling a lot of them.

That plus the same problem with the metal shelled “Eagle” type plug - more famous for brand name on style, no insulation between conductors. The more commercial/industrial versions of the Leviton/Hubbell etc. brand have a plastic hole the insulation of the wire fits into which makes sure that an stripped conductor won’t short to another conductor. Those with exposed clamps don’t have this.

Granted and in a huge way - way too many “skilled techintions” simply don’t follow the instructions either provided with the plug or even molded for proper strip length. This by way of say 1/4" worth of stripped wire shoved into a terminal requiring around ½" of stripped wire, or in improper strip length of the outer jacket in cord grip now gripping down on conductors instead of outer jacket. Many ways this fails beyond that including over clamped cable. Beyond that, the utility knife outer jacket brand of tech people that cut a bit too deep and leave cuts in the inner conductors but don’t think moisture might be a problem afterwards. Best of all “skilled labor” is them converting say a Bates stage pin plug to Edison or 208v in doing a favor for those that are to re-convert. Cord grip clamping onto conductors the least of the problem, ferrules stuck into a terminal - that don’t clamp properly and get stuck. That with the above 1/4" strip length problem of the terminal not just clamping copper or ferrule, it’s also gripping insulation in a often failed problem of non-sufficient tension on the wire. If changing a plug on a show site... do your job in properly terminating the plug, don’t do me favors in probably having to throw out a perfectly good plug with ferrule stuck in it and clamped on conductors anyway in me starting over no matter the case.

Beyond this is an expansion/contraction issue of stranded wire. The crimped or ferrule stage pin cable don’t have that problem mostly - though screw terminals need lock washers and overall in a plug sense, proper tension is required onto the conductor. With load and especially full load or length of cable in voltage drop on a plug, becomes some heating and settling of the stranded conductors within that plug. Always do a rattle test on any plug about to be used. If you hear something like a screw inside loose, open it up and there probably is a screw loose. Possibly from someone that didn’t tighten it enough, but also possibly that riding around in the back of a truck, or given expansion and contraction, it loosened. Yearly work checks tension on 60A even stage pin cable, 30A twist cable also, right down to the rattle test on all Edison or twist. Cee Form while I don’t like doesn’t much have these problems.

On stripping of screws... yep, the more options you have for driver bits, the less metal. Told this to both Hubbell and Leviton vendor reps. during visits when asked about it. Worse yet are those screws that are also in addition square drive. Pozi with Philips, yes it will do it but not the correct angle in stripping. Huge thing for where I work was when someone noted that Martin screws were Pozi Drive, that started the proper bit and driver thing for us and at this point necessity to really have a lot of bits in stock. Hint to something I did early on that helps. Paint marker all your Pozi Drive bits orange. Good way to verify having the correct bit when otherwise often looks similar.

Further note on metal shelled plugs - I at least find they strip both in terminal and cord grip easier. Often have to add a Nylock to the cord grip. Beyond that, them screws sticking out and the rectangular nature of the metal shelled plug hangs up on everything such as a loom you are trying to pull it thru. Screws get bent etc. in wigly to take back apart.

Spoken to the vendor reps.... our industry is a small part of the market is what I figure.

[BGW]

Ship, that's a great idea! How come no one makes plugs with nylocks behind the terminals? If you really wanted bombproof, there could be split washers on the top of the terminals (would only work with good plugs that have two-piece clamping terminals) and nylocks below.

[gafftapegreenia]

This has got me thinking. I have seen the least amount of failure in properly terminated ferrule 2P&G plugs. Perhaps that is the way to go.

In terms of a specialized Edison plug, I guess my logic was that if we are a strong enough market to warrant our own special connector (stagepin) why not out own Edison?

Ship, we both share a mutual dislike of combo screws. I suggest you pick up one of these from Ideal, they really do help! Combo Head™ Cushioned-Grip Screwdriver

[Nelson]

I've never had any trouble with screws loosening on the Bryant plugs I used to use all the time, but then again, they don't get very rough treatment. The screws must go into some kind of pinch nut or Nylock nut in the plug body because they are stiff to turn.

Additionally, the new Bryant plugs are more square on the back than the old ones were. The old plugs would never catch, the new ones probably won't be so easy to pull through. Sad that Hubbell had to take a great plug and ruin it.

[venuetech]

I suggest you pick up one of these from Ideal, they really do help! Combo Head™ Cushioned-Grip Screwdriver

they have just the combo bits also
Combo Head™ Screwdriver Bits

[rphilip]

Does any one have an opionion on Cooper vs Hubble/Leviton for the 5266/5269 plugs? The local electical supply house has Cooper for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of Leviton or Hubble.

Also what about Leviton 5256/5259? I've got some of those on 12/3 SJ and they look like they would work on 12/3 SO?

Thank

Philip
Philip

[ship]

Just a thought, if people are using utility knives to strip outer jackets, or even using diagional side cutters in a better way to do so, but they didnt' check as pulling off the outer jacket to see if they nicked conductors, that's bad as a premiss. Metal shell - especially if one I find in the field clamps metal cord grip onto conductors in say trained persay but not caring - that or the reverse, would not want an easily stripped metal cord grip about a stage hand in changing a plug "so as to adapt."

Years ago I made a "illegal" 5-20P to L21-30P three phase adaptor for a show using a three phase AC distro rack that needed another output and didn't have it. I was proper at least in using the 20A Edison for the most part - though grumbling about having to make this adaptor in general given cross phase concerns. It was necessary. Did my proper work, electrician on site removed all the 5-20 plugs and replaced them given a lot of time to do so. Did a fairly good job of it in replacing commercial grad 5-20 with Eagle grade home owner grade plugs he bought at a hardware store in never realizing that the 20A receptacles in the rack were able to properly do the 5-20 plug. Instead what was after a lot of wated time was 5-15 non-commercial grade plugs - but at least he did properly terminate and strain relief them. That meant cutting down some on conductor strip length also as a detail that this idiot but not total one did. So in already doing something that was a bad idea but necessary in over-rule, made it worse just in not attempting to plug in the 20A plug installed. Gee that's different, best waste time and money on installing a new plug. Cannnot imagine how many times I was cursed during this work on changing over a plug that would have worked fine had they tried or had more knowledge or trust. Believe there was two of them that had to on site be re-wired.

Overall, I do love the Eagle style metal shelled plug but do prefer the better designes and they insulate better as long as you don't put imporper strip length into the clamp that don't help when insulation is clamped onto. Eagle style plugs without reading the instructions or experience are certainy easier to use and get bad habits from. Old school Union style pin plugs also reqire some training and even special tools.

Proper training thing, lots of brands of plug out there and many good or fair enough. Instructions for each brand of plug very important to master. Many types of plug, many brands of plug to also master in reading the instructions on before installing as I would recommend as just a simple step most don't take.