Is it just me, or is the c-clamp on this 360Q bent?

[BGW]

I was just perusing the 'bay, and I saw this add. Doesn't the clamp look bent? Sketch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altman-360Q-...item3a7138aadb

[zmb]

Looks bent to me too, especially more in the second photo.

[derekleffew]

Nope, not bent--it was cast that way. Next to impossible to bend without breaking a cast iron c-clamp. I think I have a similar clamp; will look for it. I don't remember the manufacturer, but it wasn't Altman.

[BGW]

Hmm, interesting. Thanks. I know cast iron is very brittle but you can see how I would think that the clamp was somehow bent..

[chausman]

I remember seeing a clamp you posted that was bent like that on here before, Derek. I thought it was weird, but I've seen it before. Was it Kliegel (sp?) Bros.?


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[BGW]

Will I get banned if I admit I like 360Qs? Colortran 5/50s, too, except for the field adjustment. Altman 3.5Qs, 365s and 366s- oh my. I love old and oddball fixtures.


*Edit: with some of those fixtures, I guess that means I like destroying gobos, too. Yikes!

[chausman]

No. In fact, I'll gladly trade a theater full of old strands and altmans for some source 4s.


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[derekleffew]

I remember seeing a clamp you posted that was bent like that on here before, Derek. I thought it was weird, but I've seen it before. Was it Kliegel (sp?) Bros.?

Give the man a cigar!

Hard to see in this picture, but the Kliegl clamp does have a slight convex, or is it concave?, curve along its spine. Just not as severe as the one on the 360Q in the picture.

[Les]

Will I get banned if I admit I like 360Qs? Colortran 5/50s, too, except for the field adjustment. Altman 3.5Qs, 365s and 366s- oh my. I love old and oddball fixtures.

Nah, I like my 360Q's too -- mostly for their simplicity and user serviceability. Would I choose to hang a show using Source Fours over them? You betcha, but the 360Q's definitely aren't a nightmare compared to some fixtures I've seen. I don't know why, but I also like the shape of the 360Q. Just a really neat looking instrument. Come to think of it, the main gripe I've ever had with 360Q's is the fact that I can't rotate the barrel and they're difficult to bench focus in the air. If used within reasonable throw distances, even their output isn't much of a hindrance. Imaging could be sharper, but I usually have Source Fours or Shakespeares for pattern projection.

3.5Q's are also hard to beat for their size vs output. Source Four Jr is great also, but kind of weird looking.

5/50's are great instruments too (which is actually kind of surprising). They represent a great value.

See? Nothing wrong with liking those "underdog" instruments!

No. In fact, I'll gladly trade a theater full of old strands and altmans for some source 4s.

Er.. Who wouldn't?!

I like working with Source Fours... But I prefer working ON Altmans. Weird, huh?

[techieman33]

No. In fact, I'll gladly trade a theater full of old strands and altmans for some source 4s.


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Er.. Who wouldn't?!

I like working with Source Fours... But I prefer working ON Altmans. Weird, huh?

I wouldn't, I like my strand 2206 zooms 1000x better than the s4 zooms. They're easier to focus, and the 15-40 range works much better for what we use them for. I guess I would swap out some of fixed beam strands for source 4's if I could get pacific's, pheonix's, or the new leko lites.

[mstaylor]

I work with a company that has a bunch of Leos. I would prefer a 360q over them anytime. I am going to start a thread in the lighting section about them.

[zmb]

So what advantages did the bent c-clamps have? Was it reduced weight or a larger range of batten size that could be used with it?

[gafftaper]

Wow, I haven't seen one of those bent c-clamps in 20 years. My guess is they were designed to be easier to initially hang on the pipe.

And guys it's good to like 360Q's. As much as the ETC crew would like us all to upgrade, we don't all have the money to do it. There are still millions of old 360Qs out there hanging around in smaller community theaters, churches, schools, and even the larger theaters have them in rehearsal halls and small second stages. Keeping them in good operating condition and learning to design with them, is an important task for you to master as you are starting out in the business.

[jglodeklights]

*Points at Self* -> Agrees with gafftaper. Utilization of output differences between different instruments in the same family, meaning ERS, PAR, Fresnel and what have you, makes you a more versatile designer. It allows you to better understand light; the way it can be shaped and how it comes to be from an instrument. I purposely kept a few old 360 6x9, 6x12 and 6x22's around a theater I worked at so that I could use them for No Color specials. As they were from an older generation of the fixtures, without newer optics installed, the color rendering was especially Plus Green which makes for a very nice amber at lower intensities. Still have yet to find a gel I like that can come out just as nicely regarding color with a newer ERS.

[Les]

...the color rendering was especially Plus Green which makes for a very nice amber at lower intensities. Still have yet to find a gel I like that can come out just as nicely regarding color with a newer ERS.

This is starting to sound like an analog vs digital thread, but in a good way . "Sometimes you just can't get that analog warmth with digital!"

[gafftaper]

Plus new guys starting out are likely to find themselves working in smaller, older, lower budget productions which only have old gear or a mix of old and new gear. A designer fresh out of school who only knows how to use the latest gear is going to have a very hard time finding work.

For all you guys eager to go to pick a college that allows you a lot of access to designing with LED's and movers, the truth is you are far more likely to work with 360Q's on a regular basis than any of the latest sexy toys. If I were you I would make sure my college program has a meat rack somewhere full of 360Q's, 3.5" Box zooms, and a few ancient scoops and fresnels. Because when you first get out of college, that's the gear you will likely be using to try to make a name for yourself as a technician.

[shiben]

Give the man a cigar!
.

According to the poster at my gas station, that would make whoever did guilty of some crime or the other.

[shiben]

Plus new guys starting out are likely to find themselves working in smaller, older, lower budget productions which only have old gear or a mix of old and new gear. A designer fresh out of school who only knows how to use the latest gear is going to have a very hard time finding work.

For all you guys eager to go to pick a college that allows you a lot of access to designing with LED's and movers, the truth is you are far more likely to work with 360Q's on a regular basis than any of the latest sexy toys. If I were you I would make sure my college program has a meat rack somewhere full of 360Q's, 3.5" Box zooms, and a few ancient scoops and fresnels. Because when you first get out of college, that's the gear you will likely be using to try to make a name for yourself as a technician.

Plus, they have that nice, "analogue warmth" going on...

[derekleffew]

According to the poster at my gas station, that would make whoever did guilty of some crime or the other.

I meant one of these.


Do they still sell those?

[shiben]

I meant one of these.


Do they still sell those?

Dont think so. They make kids smoke, didnt you know.

[gafftapegreenia]

They still make "candy cigarettes". Course, they can't call em cigarettes anymore.
Candy Cigarettes 1 pack - OldTimeCandy.com

[JD]

Back on the original topic: I think this was over-thought!
I suspect it was just a sloppy dump from the mold box while it was still cherry and soft. Probably a lot of them floating around that way and probably happened quite often. Ever see a simple foundry in operation? Not a pretty sight.

[ccm1495]

I have a clamp that looks exactly like that. It is on a used source four. The source 4 came with an atman clamp used from a rental house. The other ones that we bought from that same rental place did not have "bent".

[DjHammers]

My school's ERS inventory is about 45% Source Four, 5% Altman Shakespeare, and 50% 360Q.

Our 360Qs are great, we have a large assortment of them of different vintages, ranging from 1996 6x12s to 1985 6x9s. My only qualm with the 360Qs is that they leak a considerably higher amount of light out the back compared to a Source Four or Shakespeare

[gafftapegreenia]

Back on the original topic: I think this was over-thought!
I suspect it was just a sloppy dump from the mold box while it was still cherry and soft. Probably a lot of them floating around that way and probably happened quite often. Ever see a simple foundry in operation? Not a pretty sight.

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

[Les]

My school's ERS inventory is about 45% Source Four, 5% Altman Shakespeare, and 50% 360Q.

Our 360Qs are great, we have a large assortment of them of different vintages, ranging from 1996 6x12s to 1985 6x9s. My only qualm with the 360Qs is that they leak a considerably higher amount of light out the back compared to a Source Four or Shakespeare

That is true. To minimize light leak as much as possible, make sure the sheet metal "blast shield" (AKA cap gasket) is installed between the housing and lamp cap.

[DjHammers]

That is assuming we have any to install on our 360Qs that are not so endowed... but I'd assume that Altman could supply us with a couple, as they are still manufacturing the 360Q.

[Les]

That is assuming we have any to install on our 360Qs that are not so endowed... but I'd assume that Altman could supply us with a couple, as they are still manufacturing the 360Q.

Yeah, they just float between the lamp cap and bell housing (the studs on the lamp cap protrude through the holes in the shield) so they're easily lost. Any theatrical dealer could get you some (Barbizon, Production Advantage, Norcostco, BMI, etc).

Altman Light Shield, for 360Q Cap

[DjHammers]

I'm actually in very close proximity to the Altman headquarters in yonkers. The Tech director and I will be heading down there soon to pick up some rental equipment for Pirates of Penzance and a couple extra shakespeare lens pins, so i'm sure I can shoehorn some light shields in.

[BGW]

HAHAHAHA I was looking at the 366 spec sheet ( http://mail.altmanltg.com/publicsynergy/docs/BDBinDoc.asp?Id={13288CE3-BF28-49D1-9D94-5629AC87079B} ), and I kid you not, this is how they describe it:

"A compact, lightweight ellipsoidal spotlight which produces a high intensity sharp or soft edged beam"

I think the 366 is neat. However, I don't think it can be called compact or lightweight under any circumstances- even compared with other fixtures of the day. The only way their description could be true is if they were comparing the 366 to a Super Trouper.

For size reference is the picture below. I'm sure everyone already knows, but from left to right the fixtures are as follows (All fixtures by Altman except the one mentioned): 3.5Q, 360Q, 365, (Hub) "366", 366. The yoke of the Altman 366 is at waist height. The lens tubes are all fully retracted except for the Altman 366, which is fully extended to show just how massive the fixtures can be.

[gafftaper]

Does the 366 come standard with a 400 year old can of Pepsi or is that a bonus?

[josh88]

Does the 366 come standard with a 400 year old can of Pepsi or is that a bonus?

Why else would people buy them except to get a finely aged, fruitfally aromatic pepsi? Much like a fine wine. Though I had assumed Pepsi was selling throwbacks again


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[gafftapegreenia]

Gaff brother thats just the current Pepsi Throwback can. Made with actual sugar.

[BGW]

You guys are funny. Yeah, it's throwback- I put it in the picture for scale. But hey, if it'll find the old radial fixtures a new home, I'll throw in a whole case of that stuff for every fixture you take...

[chausman]

You guys are funny. Yeah, it's throwback- I put it in the picture for scale. But hey, if it'll find the old radial fixtures a new home, I'll throw in a whole case of that stuff for every fixture you take...

I have to ask, even though this got moved to an on topic forum, why do so many people use soda cans for scale?

[BGW]

I have to ask, even though this got moved to an on topic forum, why do so many people use soda cans for scale?

Product placement. I'm endorsed by Pepsi. Talking about ancient fixtures and the sight of the old-school can can really make people want to go to the store and buy old formula soda.


Kidding. I don't really know. For me, it was convenient to grab and I figured everyone knows exactly how large a soda can is.

[shiben]

I have to ask, even though this got moved to an on topic forum, why do so many people use soda cans for scale?

When was the last time you were in the US and saw a pepsi can that wasnt a half size that was a different size than standard. Also, you intuitively know the size of a soda can, having held thousands of them in your life. Im in favor of a more "theater appropriate" scaling method and using a keg, but those are less common...