Conventional Fixtures - Strand SL Coolbeams

[MircleWorker]

Has anybody ever had to replace the lamp sockets on these fixtures?
I cannot get the backs apart.
Strand used steel screws into the Aluminium housing and basicly the screws have rusted, I'm thinking from the heat, and I can't get them out.
I can deal with the hundreds of lock washers, but I keep breaking the screws off or striping them.

I'm wondering if I'm going about this the right way?

[Woodj32177]

If they have steel screws into an aluminum housing, you may just be out of luck. Due to Galvanic Corrosion
On larger screws you usually can brute force them out, but smaller stuff will often break or strip as you are finding...
Perhaps give it a try while the fixtures are hot?
Good Luck!

[MircleWorker]

By the time I get to them they have cooled down. I've tried torching them to heat them up with no luck. I'm sitting on a graveyard of 18 SL fixtures.

[venuetech]

You could try heating the housing then applying a penetrating oil such as wd40 or Kroil onto the hot screw. I would give the screw a few gentle taps with a small hammer as it cooled

and keep in mind that it will be the last screw that will give you the most trouble

[MPowers]

Contact your dealer or the manufacturer and see what they recommend.

[lightingguy1]

Contact your dealer or the manufacturer and see what they recommend.

I hope your joking.

--

For anyone who hasn't learned yet, I REALLY hate SL instruments.

[kiwitechgirl]

I hope your joking.

--

For anyone who hasn't learned yet, I REALLY hate SL instruments.

Wait until you do get the lamp holder out, or open up the side of the instrument, to discover that the reflectors are all cracked. I worked in a venue with 30 SLs, and when we opened them up (at just over a year old) for routine cleaning/maintenance/PAT, we discovered 24 out of the 30 had cracked reflectors. Strand then assured us that cracks up to 30mm were "acceptable" and the instruments would continue to operate normally, but they didn't seem to have an answer when I said "so what do I do with the reflectors which have fallen apart in my hand due to the cracks going right the way through them?". We did get a few replacement reflectors, but certainly not 24 replacements. I don't work there any more but I suspect the units are still up in the air with cracked reflectors.

[avkid]

You could try heating the housing then applying a penetrating oil such as wd40 or Kroil onto the hot screw. I would give the screw a few gentle taps with a small hammer as it cooled

WD40 is a garbage lubricant, soak them in PB Blaster.

[DrPinto]

WD40 is a garbage lubricant, soak them in PB Blaster.

Don't diss WD-40! That's great stuff!

There are a few ways to remove the stuck screws: cold, heat, penetrating oil, drilling and retapping. I suggest you do a Google search for stuck bolts on outboard motors. Outboards often have the same issues of steel fasteners frozen into aluminum parts (with salt thrown in). There are lots of articles out there that may give you some ideas like this one:

Fire and Ice: How to free stuck nuts and bolts and fasteners on a marine engine.

In the future I would coat the threads of the screws with Permatex Copper Anti-Seize. That's what is used on automotive spark plugs and oxygen sensors. It will stand up to the heat of the instrument and prevent seizing.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ubricant_b.htm

[MircleWorker]

OH, I have cracked reflectors!

[DrPinto]

OH, I have cracked reflectors!

You can always make derekleffew style butt-fugly table lamps out of them!

[chausman]

You can always make derekleffew style butt-fugly table lamps out of them!

You make fun of them now, but you all know you secretly want to do the same thing...

[DrPinto]

You make fun of them now, but you all know you secretly want to do the same thing...

I so do want one!

[MNicolai]

You can always make derekleffew style butt-fugly table lamps out of them!

But good luck getting it UL listed once you've built it. :P

[MircleWorker]

What's UL Listing?.........Just Kidding. No Seriously, What is it?

[MircleWorker]

Very Clever! It won't look the same as your ETC Model. Another thing is using them to drive nails.

[Aman121]

We have a few of these our school bought used for next to nothing. They are a big upgrade from the old Colortran lights we have, but one reflector has already shattered. I wonder how much longer the others are going to survive.

[derekleffew]

...I wonder how much longer the others are going to survive.

I wonder how long replacement SL reflectors will be available, or even if they are at present. Does anyone know if the reflector for SPX or new Leko Lite will work in an SL?

[phenry]

Sorry for jumping in so late, I am at USITT right now so I have not been on CB.
I don’t have any good tips for getting the screws out that have not already been covered above. If the screws have seized up, then it is not easy/impossible to get them out without sacrificing something, either the screw or some plastic.
Not to tell you what you have already been told, but yes, small cracks are considered ok and not out of spec on reflectors.
Reflectors are still available. With the exception of I think one bad batch a hand full or two years ago, they should last just like any other glass reflector in any other instrument. They are the same reflector that is used in the new Leko.

[SPSmall]

Hey there,

I have 80 SL's in my house, and I know this thread is older. I am almost positive that the screws on the top of the socket, that go through the porcelain are fused somehow with the heat sink at the base. I say this because when you spend your 75 USD to buy it, it comes with the heat sink attached. You remove the socket by taking the three long screws out of the back of the cap, pulling all the plastic parts off. You will then expose a single screw that will detach the heat sink and base inside. My SL's are 10 years old, and I am needing 20 bases at this point, likely more, because they are just wearing out. The only person I know of that was more supportive of Strand, was / is Bobby, but this really disappoints me in Strand.

I am not happy with the price of replacement buying them from strand, and wondering if anyone else found a source for the base, or if they (strand) built a custom base for this fixture and is the only source for replacement.


Sean Patrick Small

[MNicolai]

It's been a few years but at a venue I used to work at, they had a large SL inventory and after 6 years, they had Strand freight-ship two palettes worth of new lamp caps (w/ the new heatsinks), and then we sent the old caps back to Strand. I don't know how the logistics of that all worked out though on who paid for what.

I know at least two local TD's now with large Strand inventories with deteriorating SL/6" Fresnel fixtures. The cost to repair all of the fixtures that had either died or were near death became so great that instead of repairing them, they took the money they would've spent on repairs and put it towards buying new Source Fours. They then cannibalized their deteriorating fixtures and used them as spare parts for fixing their other Strand fixtures in the years to come.

[derekleffew]

SPSmall, are you perhaps confusing the TP22 socket
Bender & Wirth Socket, TP-22, G9.5, Porcelain Base, 41" Leads
or
Socket, G9.5, Osram, 36" Leads
with the TP220:

OS TP 220 12" #69040 | OSRAM SYLVANIA | Sockets ?

Back in the 1980s, Strand-Century freely replaced 20-30 of the TP-22 sockets for my 2200-series black Lekolights, due to contacts pitting/arc-ing. I'm not sure any manufacturer would do that today, as it's more of a user issue.

[SPSmall]

I do not think it is a TP22 but could be wrong. We thought it may have been a TP220 base with an additional heat sink attached to it, then decided it was not, but take a look and see what you think.

Here is an image:


And another view


Thanks
Sean Patrick Small

[ship]

If Philips type screw, ensure your screwdriver is not worn and lots of pressure and strength in turning has been done on a non-moving part. And with than the same in attempting chemicals like even liquid wrench in letting it sit a while than trying. Amazing what a lot of pressure and a good tip will do especially if on the second try with a penetrating oil. Have a "Sword in the stone" competition for who can combine the most turning force with downward pressure - I'm not near a big guy, but often call my guys wimps where experience comes to play. Thats a diffent thing than football strength - this ability to apply pressure and turn a screw than just be bulk mass. Proper pressure, proper tip, often able to do wonders if not too bad in stripped out to save.

Even saw some diamond coated power bit tips in McMaster Carr and other types for this purpose recently that would mount on cordless impact drivers well. Never tried it - for me normally unless someone made the driver hole useless, a good and fresh Klien screw driver will last a long time in removing screws with the proper pressure and if needed penetrating oils in waiting to try again. Otherwise I normally Dremmel or extractor bit them.

Next step that I often use on stripped stainless steel mounting screws to Versa Tube aluminum mounting brackets is a cutoff wheel on a Dremmel tool in making it now a slotted screw.

Good tip - them installing screws, than removing them, inspect their tools power or hand for what condition they are in and periodically if a large project- stripped tipps, improper use "drill that screw in", needs attention and something any crew chief should hear about by way of sound from across the room in immediatly corrrecting. Instruction and replacement or it will cost you later. Bits should be replaced for free by any shop you work for, hand tools one should have - debatable if used for company purposes but normal I think to replace or sell at discount at least. Replace warn tips with supervision to ensure you know how to use the tool properly, but it saves money in the long run and is a work expense. Inspected two 6" philips Power bit tips today - showed wear on them, instructed what wear there was and how they were only good a little while longer in watching both use and the bit. It was a sampling of bits used. Had to remove six thoroughly stripped stainless steel M4-.5x16mm flat head screws off Versa Tube brackets today. Good percentage out of like 600 but still not good enough in watching for the people "drilling that screw out" or on verses using a tool properly, or in a crew chief inspecting the bit used so it cannot strip out a screw easily. And for the training of difference between trying hard and drilling out that Philips screw to the extent it was useless.. Again with training and re-training from drywall screws to these rusted screws, training and techinques but mostly the stop if not coming and checking the bit too. Than better methods. Supervision and training before the person that just made a Philips screw into a countersunk hole - that than moves onto the next screw with the same tip and technique. Funny with like a dozen or more cordless screw drivers doing the project, provided a lot of batteries, not one request for a new tip. Training thing.

Either in extractacting going to remove the screw, or break it off in getting the part off and now being able to use Vise Grips to get the screw out. Always re-tap any holes you are having problems with, than go stainless steel screw as a replacement where possible in aluminum. Granted this above is a mounting bracket I can get a Dremmel flexible wand with cutoff blade into. Unless they sell a right angle version, such a grinding wheel wouldn't be useful for inside a lamp cap. Assuming not a stainless, black oxide but normal grade of steel screw or otherwise it did rust in the hole, there is various forms of screw extractors on the market that can remove the screw - often again with penetrating oil about the area in penetrating. Even TICN coated left twist (run your drill in reverse) drill bits with a 118 degree angle will at times work - especially on a Philips bit that was stripped and had a center punch stamped in it's center. Concept is you either remove enough material from the head even with a countersink bit that your part is removed and you have enough of the screw to Vise grip out, or you remove so much material from the screw that it comes out or is displaced in re-tapping perhaps even for a larger screw. (Steel bits of a screw left behind in an aluminum or other material hole will often cause problems in re- tapping, but at times is the only way to do it.) Remove most of the stuck screws ... At times you are off center, or go off center and your extractor works towards the softer cast part. Don't always work in not working out.

Lots of types of extractor on the market and ways of doing it. Tried many of them, aluminum is hard to remove stuff from in general. Frequently drilling all the way thru the casting will help in say tapping all the way thru the material by way of pushing it out instead of trying to remove it. Just as often... it's toast, don't forget if a larger tapped hole won't work, the good old fashoned Helicoil screw insert for a fix next. Often just takes some time and the proper tools. One situation is also different from another in what will work in trying if budget a lot of them as opposed to the amount of replacement cost. A balance in figuring out what will work.

Sorry, never seen a SL series fixture, know and have an example of the series before where if you didn't tighten the lens train knob and picked a fixture up, it might send the lens train forward with sufficient force that it would eject the lens. Anyone with a spare parts SL Fixture that wants to send it my way for the museum... Love some copies and to learn from them. Also looking for a S-4 575w series fixture, sold them all off before the museum started. Sorry, no trades unless wanted a few steel Altman PAR Can or 1KAL 6-30 series that in the next day or so are going out the door in donation to store front theaters. Storage building is being cleaned out. Sufficiently needy source has already been found in donation plus or minus one or two in trade.

SL reflectors from what I read are probably not much better than ETC reflectors - and probably more easy to get out short of a hammer. Just as often see a crack in the outer glass but they often are fine unless seen on the reflector side. Hard to get out - I'm about the only one in the shop that can get them out even given lots of training and custom tools to make it easier. Getting them back in... that's all luck in getting it aligned just right while pushing and it not going off in any way. At one point I was making a jig for doing so. Never finished it but would be a useful thing to make.

[derekleffew]

I do not think it is a TP22 but could be wrong. We thought it may have been a TP220 base with an additional heat sink attached to it, then decided it was not, but take a look and see what you think.

I'd say that's a Bender & Wirth socket, as I linked to above:
Bender & Wirth Socket, TP-22, G9.5, Porcelain Base, 41" Leads .
It looks like it sits higher than a "normal" TP22/G9.5 (or maybe the lamp's base ends up in the same place, just the area where the mounting holes are is thicker), even without the ~1/8" milled aluminum? mounting plate below it.

Item #2 on this, nearly useless, document:
http://www.strandlighting.com/client...sc_07Feb12.pdf , excerpt below:


-----

From http://www.vincentlighting.com/shop/parts.php :

STRAND SL SOCKET CAP ASSEMBLY
This is to replace a bad socket on a Strand SL ellipsoidal, you need to replace the whole cap.

At that price, I'd tell them to stick it where the HPL don't shine.
.

[LightStud]

Hey there,

I have 80 SL's in my house, and I know this thread is older. I am almost positive that the screws on the top of the socket, that go through the porcelain are fused somehow with the heat sink at the base. I say this because when you spend your 75 USD to buy it, it comes with the heat sink attached. You remove the socket by taking the three long screws out of the back of the cap, pulling all the plastic parts off. You will then expose a single screw that will detach the heat sink and base inside. My SL's are 10 years old, and I am needing 20 bases at this point, likely more, because they are just wearing out. The only person I know of that was more supportive of Strand, was / is Bobby, but this really disappoints me in Strand.

I am not happy with the price of replacement buying them from strand, and wondering if anyone else found a source for the base, or if they (strand) built a custom base for this fixture and is the only source for replacement.


Sean Patrick Small

So Strand-Selecon / your dealer is charging $75 for a $20 B&W socket, two 10¢ screws, and a 95¢ piece of aluminum. All permanently attached, either intentionally by design or due to the fusing of dissimilar metals during heating cooling cycles. Imagine my surprise. Some might say you should be thanking your lucky stars the parts are available AT ANY PRICE. Ungrateful consumer.

Here's what I would do: take one apart by whatever non-destructive method possible. Break the (needing replacement anyway) socket if you have to. Take the little piece of aluminum to a local machine shop and see how much to duplicate a hundred or more of them. Tell them it must withstand 350–500°C (lamp's pinch seal temperature), discuss using other alloys that won't seize the screws; or just consider the piece disposable every time you change a socket.

PS, I wouldn't call the little aluminum piece a heat sink, I think it's just more of a mounting plate. No fins or vanes. Probably doesn't help much with socket cooling either.

[derekleffew]

I notice I was negligent in addressing some issues...

But good luck getting it UL listed once you've built it. :P

It was built with UL Listed parts.

What's UL Listing?.........Just Kidding. No Seriously, What is it?

See wiki links above, and also Listed, by NRTL.
.

[MNicolai]

I notice I was negligent in addressing some issues...
It was built with UL Listed parts.


See wiki links above, and also Listed, by NRTL.
.

UL listed parts, a UL listed assembly does not necessarily make.

[SPSmall]

Not ungrateful. And the reason I referred to it as a heat sink, is because Strand / Selecon refers to it as such.

Cheers

[ship]

No fight here, more a question of not ungrateful in better perhaps asking why the screws rusted to the heat sink/plate described. Not sure steel can rust to aluminum but they can rust and corrode for both in general. Why they are doing so is a big question not to apologize for being ungrateful for asking about, more for the vendor rep. to explain about this problem, what caused it, how to solve it and how they will fix it.

Your post raises a question of something you have seen as a problem.

[DELO72]

My thought is-- the Best person to ask would be Pete Borchetta- the Philips Strand Product Manager.

I always say-- if you have a question about a fixture (or lamp, or...) GO To the Manufacturer. Sing along with me everyone, "Go straight to the source and ask the horse, he'll give you an answer that you'll endorse..."

Pete Borchetta

Product Marketing Manager

Philips Strand Lighting

Philips Selecon

214-647-7990 office

[derekleffew]

I had the opportunity today to look closely at a Strand SL Coolbeam lamp cap.


(The picture is also a textbook example of a socket needing replacement.)

It appears this one, which I suspect is a later version than SPSmall's, uses a TP22H socket (probably a Bender & Wirth), surrounded by a custom aluminum heat sink, all on top of the little mounting plate piece.

Personally, I've become fond of having the heatsink integral to the lamp's base ala HPL, but maybe that's just me. Just seems like that's the best way to keep the pinch seal and contacts' temperature as low as possible.

The institution won't be repairing or replacing these; they are slowly migrating to Source Four fixtures as funds become available. As stated above, many have found that to be the most economically-prudent approach.

-----

My thought is-- the Best person to ask would be Pete Borchetta- the Philips Strand Product Manager.
...

So drop him a line to tell him he's needed here on ControlBooth. That is, if Philips Strand actually cares about its customers.

[lefhalas]

I work in a theatre with over a hundred SL Coolbeams and I've never had to replace a base. I also have worked in high schools where they have a huge graveyard of dead caps. I guess the lesson is to maintain your equipment.

Sometimes an electrician will drop a base on my work table telling me it is dead. I'll clean it, realign the ONE screw centering the filament, and reseat the lamp. Usually the lamp just isn't seated all the way. This is what I think causes the base to arc and burn out but regular checks keeps this from happening.

[lekobird]

Pete will be at LDI, stop by the Philips' Strand/Vari*lite/Selecon Booth and run both the reflector replacement and socket issue up with him. It's a great place to get questions into the que. personally i would like to go back to the 1490 die cast Leko, it was the workhorse of the lighting world before we got into axial mt lamps. And hey, for what it's worth, Philips Strand cares.... that would be me.

[derekleffew]

I work in a theatre with over a hundred SL Coolbeams and I've never had to replace a base. ...

Socket; the base is part of the lamp.
Are you saying you've NEVER had to replace a TP22 or TP22H socket? If yes, I'd say you haven't been in the industry long enough.

... Sometimes an electrician will drop a base on my work table telling me it is dead. I'll clean it, realign the ONE screw centering the filament, and reseat the lamp. Usually the lamp just isn't seated all the way. This is what I think causes the base to arc and burn out but regular checks keeps this from happening.

Perhaps not fully seating the G9.5 pins is the primary cause, but not the only one. How exactly do you clean the socket's contacts once corrosion and arcing has begun?

If you can't tell, I find offering for sale a luminaire in which the socket cannot be replaced, either intentionally or due to design defect, reprehensible.

[Synchronize]

This whole thread made me chuckle a little bit. I did a bit of consulting with a high school that had a full compliment of SLs over the summer. The person responsible for maintaining the instruments had obviously run into the same problem because half of the instruments were missing the whole burner assembly, presumably thrown in the trash because they couldn't figure out how to get the socket out. Since new burner assemblies cost over $100 each to replace, the school opted to go with new 360Qs instead of repairing the SLs. I'm really glad I only have to deliver new fixtures and not have to deal with the same headache that most of you are.

[Les]

Ironic how they opted for 360Q's being a step or two back. But of course, if given the choice with a limited budget, I'd probably do the same. SL's have good optics and the entire body rotates but those are the only positives. The maintenance issues are atrocious. I shouldn't even call them "maintenance issues" -- things just break on them for no reason. At least the 360Q's will be reliable and repairable for a reasonable price.

[Synchronize]

You're right about budget--more bang for their buck with the 360Qs. If there was more money available I would have pushed the Phoenix. I have a big issue with the quality of the SL, so I don't really consider it a step back. The barrels seize up often and those bloody burner assemblies are a pain to even get in an out of the instrument. I think Strand tried to re-invent the wheel with a lot of the features on the SL, and failed doing it.

[Les]

The barrels seize up often and those bloody burner assemblies are a pain to even get in an out of the instrument. I think Strand tried to re-invent the wheel with a lot of the features on the SL, and failed doing it.

I hate those burner assemblies. A) it isn't always physically possible to change the lamp because they're so stuck (and requires brute force, leading to more damage), and B) sometimes getting them to lock back in can be a hassle which creates safety issues as sometimes people will just give up and leave them unlocked.

The rotating body is great but the locking mechanism isn't great.

The Phoenix looks like a great instrument - especially if you already have an Altman house. If you have an ETC house, you can order the HPL caps, but I think most people will still be loyal to the Source Four if that's the case.

[Synchronize]

The HPL caps are great. The reflectors are slightly different, but the Phoenix and S4 look similar side-by-side. I think the biggest selling point is the enclosed gel frame slot. No light leak. More relevant in black boxes and thrusts, but still, pretty awesome.