Two Scene console advice

[Sayen]

I'm trying to help a church get into basic stage lighting. The budget sounds like under $1000 for control, but they haven't specified a number. They want to be able to light regular services, some drama (?!?), and possibly concerts. I'm pretty well versed in programmable consoles from the Express/ion up to GrandMA, and I've done the software route, but I've never really paid attention to the 2-Scene market, at least not in recent years.

Software is certainly an option, but most of the operation is done by untrained individuals who are not always the most computer savvy. I haven't ruled out ideas like MagicQ, but I'm not so sure I want to help with the support end.

I'm very familiar with the Leprechaun series of consoles, and I like them. I've had one for shop work for years and it's taken plenty of abuse. I was browsing Ebay, and wondered if anyone might have any other suggestions. Reading online specs and manuals for DJ gear is painful. Why, oh why, can't they just list maximum channels?

So:
- budget of under $1k
- easy for a novice to learn
- simple control of conventional and LED PARs
- I'd like 100+ channels, but the more the merrier. 98 channel Leprechaun works great

I saw several Chauvet consoles, and Beherenger. I'm very familiar with both of those companies, so I'm a little hesitant. Any experience with their boards? How about Lightronics?

[avkid]

Do not even think about that Behringer.
The most frustrating piece of garbage ever.......

[ship]

Ah’ back to the 1979' TTI 24 channel light board with independent mode for each channel in making magic on stage... Them were the days in somewhat not just cross fade but sort of a three channel light board that if you switched to independent mode while the fades were matched up - almost no noticable flicker in that change. Literally at times a pencil to adjust channels for a quick scene change and a sneaking up during the scene, but a style of art.

For me, a big selling point would in any two scene pre-set, that ability to go independent mode. Don’t have to use it, but it makes for growth in design this feature. Or perhaps more modern the memory feature of more modern two scene pre-sets with some programmable presets that I am less familiar with but I think would do similar if not better. Again don’t have to use the features in being normal mode, but better for growth.

As for what language any light board speaks, believe converters are very inexpensive these days and that should be less a problem to solve but one to look at in solving before say buying an analogue board that is trying to speak to DMX dimmers. Important point perhaps.

Remember back in college - like 92' we had a Leprecon two scene pre-set that was able to slave the Vision to it in setting up cues. Made it easier in designing cues.

Hope it helps or starts a good discussion in what to get for this application.

[LavaASU]

DO NOT buy the behringer... it is a POS that will cause major issues... seriously... don't.

I have one (tremors uncontrollably).

PS. you can play with ours if you'd like to know why not to buy one...

[avkid]

Ah’ back to the 1979' TTI 24 channel light board with independent mode for each channel in making magic on stage...

We've got one of those in the warehouse, I rehabbed it a few years back.

[BGW]

What about used boards?

While very antiquated, I'm going to have the recommend the Teatronics Producer II+ in a 48/96 variety. It's the only good (actually, I'd call it great) board in your price range. You shouldn't have to spend very much to get one- they're loads cheaper than an ETC Express, but they're nearly indestructable and surprisingly flexible for such an old board. DMX/AMX/Analog all in the same board, and Doug Fleenor helped design it. Very easy to learn and program due to their simplicity- they're perfect for busking a high number of conventionals/LEDs. Sure, there are many more modern boards floating around, but they're either terrible quality or out of your desired price range. There's nothing jazzy about a Producer, but it'll never let you down. It'll still be working perfectly in 20 years.

[bigtim]

Chauvet boards (at least the few I've been unfortunate to work with) are not worth the time to plug in. I've worked on a Lightronics TL2448 extensively and at $1500 +/-, it's not much (and only controls 48 channels). As for software based systems, I've never used MagicQ, but have a LOT of experience with the BlueLite Mini X1. At $399, they would have plenty left in the budget for more equipment! The Mini controls a DMX universe (conventionals, LED's, scrollers, movers - anything that is DMX). That's not enough? The full X1 controls 4 universes and is $999. Record up to a million cues, set up chases, ballyhoos, run over 1100 sequences from your Iphone or Android smart phone (simultaneously with the cue stack) and a lot more. The software is free and can be loaded on as many machines (laptops, netbooks, etc.) as you wish. Shows can be saved on thumb drives, emailed, whatever. At the 2 community theaters I work in, I have everyone from teenagers to an 82 year old man writing and running shows. Support is free and outstanding. Full disclosure - I was so impressed that I recently became a dealer and immediately sold 5 to local high schools that have very limited budgets, but still want to put on quality shows. I don't pretend to be an LD and for those guys this might not be the best answer, but that's not the question here. You can't go wrong with this system, period. PM me if you have any questions or look at the website BlueLite X1 Show Controller :: Innovate Show Controls

[Sayen]

Used is definitely an option, so I'm cruising the used lighting sites, including Ebay/Craigslist. Thanks for the responses regarding DJ-type gear. I'm surprised there aren't more quality 2-scene consoles still on the market, considering the price range and usability of the little guys.

Bigtim- that's awesome feedback for BlueLite X1. I demo'd the software about a year ago a really liked it for the simple interface, but I don't think I've run across anyone else who uses it to get field to see how they like it. I'll look at it again, but I might need to get in touch with you with some questions.

[BillESC]

Will this church require more than 24/48 channels of control? Or more than 24 submasters?

[derekleffew]

...I'm surprised there aren't more quality 2-scene consoles still on the market, considering the price range and usability of the little guys. ...

I thought we settled this nearly four years ago: To scene, or not too scene; alas poor Express... .
As soon as one moves from ~24 dimmers, some form of memory control is required, particularly with LEDs and definitely with automated lights. Thus it is difficult to find, at any price, a true two-scene preset, >24 channel console (two rows of 24 channels, X bank and Y bank). All those handles are expensive, and considering ease-of-use/repeatability, just not practical in today's applications.

[AhClem]

I just wanted to update the contact link bigtim provided for the BlueLite X1 information

Light In Motion has taken over from Innovate as the manufacturer of the BlueLite X1 products, but we still maintain the Innovate site so earlier customers have a sense of continuity and don't feel abandoned.

Feel free to contact me and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have either about our products or anythng else I can help with.

Craig Spredeman

(818) 945-4642

[gafftapegreenia]

I thought we settled this nearly four years ago: To scene, or not too scene; alas poor Express... .
As soon as one moves from ~24 dimmers, some form of memory control is required, particularly with LEDs and definitely with automated lights. Thus it is difficult to find, at any price, a true two-scene preset, >24 channel console (two rows of 24 channels, X bank and Y bank). All those handles are expensive, and considering ease-of-use/repeatability, just not practical in today's applications.

Even the most basic Leprecon's, the 612 and 624 have a 50 scene cue stack. In Atlanta (from what I've seen) it seems that once a setup leaves the Leprecon level of control it goes straight to Hog's. Even for a dozen LED pars and a few lekos.

I would stay away from an DJ board. The whole reason to buy a 2 scene board is for their simple robustness. DJ boards don't have that.

Companies to look at: Leprecon, Lightronics, and Leviton's. While the NSI boards aren't my favorite, they are cheap.

[JChenault]

If you are considering a software solution that is easy to use, may I suggest you take a look at Gam Plexus. GAM Products Inc

( Shameless commercial plug since I am one of the developers )

It has proven to be a very intuitive product. Once the rig is set up, I have had non lighting designers figure it out just by playing with it - it's that simple.

One feature that I think you will really like is what we call 'Club Buttons'. This lets you lay out a number of virtual buttons on a screen, and associate each button with a change in the look ( like "PreServiceCongregation" "Choir Singing" "Pulpit Light" ) This makes it very easy to run your services without a trained operator. You can set things up so that the operator just turns on the computer. Clicks on the Plexus icon, and is presented with the buttons to use for the service. They just click on the button for whatever look you have set up.

It is certainly withing your price range ( assuming you have a computer available you can use ). Retail price for the software plus a USB to DMX dongle for single universe is under $1000. You are not going to find anything as easy to learn, and as powerful for the price.

Here is a video that DvsDave shot of me at LDI doing a demo. I don't think we got to the Club buttons however. Plexus Software Controller

You can download the software from the GAM site to see just how easy and powerful it is. Take a look, and if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message.

[Sayen]

Thank you all for the responses. I remember that 2-Scene thread...just not sure I agree (yet) for smaller venues. There's a big price jump still from something like a Leprechaun to a decent programmable board - but I do agree with the ultimate outcome. What would be ideal would be something like an Element - easy to run, lots of subs, easy to back up the show when working with volunteers, but on a church's budget they aren't cheap. I'm researching several of the things listed as I have time - very cool feedback, and I appreciate it.

Will this church require more than 24/48 channels of control? Or more than 24 submasters?

I think they will, eventually. Right now they want to get off the ground, so I'm trying to give them a two level solution. Cheap and quality for the short term, something along the lines of a Leprechaun 24/48, with the intent that in the not too distant future they'll want to fund raise towards a better console. They have a bank of 10 donated Chauvet LEDs - I didn't catch the model, but from the floor they look like Colorados - and doubling up on addressing a 2-Scene console works as a solution, as would a software model. Their stage isn't huge, so short term giving them a simple wash and a few color options would be a huge step up from their current method of using just the overhead section of fluorescent house lights. This is a retrofitted cafetorium, by the way.

It's very much like working in a school. Under $1000 is almost like pocket change, and very easy to spend. As soon as your number goes over $1000 it takes some special act of a committee just to get extra funding sometimes.

[derekleffew]

...something like a Leprechaun ...

BTW, it's Leprecon®. No one ever said Michiganites were good spelllers.

[bigtim]

I'd be glad to let you know more about my experience with BlueLite. FYI, I'm running various conventionals and a few LEDs - which is exactly what your friends at the church are looking for - with absolutely no problems. It's stable, software updates are always free as is very responsive and competent technical support. And my apologies, I included the old website. The Light in Motion site is Lightin Motion Show Control - Home for the BlueLite X1

[gafftapegreenia]

BTW, it's Leprecon®. No one ever said Michiganites were good spelllers.

I've always heard Michigander, followed by Michiganian.

[BillESC]

NSI's MC-7024 can be had brand new from the factory for under a grand. It's a 24/48 two scene board with a 24 submaster memory and two user programmable user chases. The one we have in our rental department is probably 30 years old and works as well as the day we got it.

[Sayen]

BTW, it's Leprecon®. No one ever said Michiganites were good spelllers.

Ah! That would explain some of the trouble doing searches for it!

Plenty here to research this week - thank you everyone who replied.