|Martin TW1's is being discussed in the ControlBooth Lighting and Electrics forum; Anyone have any experience with the Martin TW1's? Looking at the fixture to possibly be an option for our main ...|
fresnel lensed moving head wash unit, with CMY color mixing at at around $7,000, The ETC, if say you go with a 25-50 zoom, is a conventional, non-color changing ellipisoidal at about $450.
Light output might be about the same, depending on the zoom setting, but pretty much everything else is so vastly different that I'm totally unclear as to why you would want to compare the two.
I'm thinking some additional input as to intended use other then "key or back light" would be useful, including intended control, budget, type venue, etc.. would be helpful.
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Um, they're both tungsten?
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stage. We are in process of design/build of a new Auditorium. Wanted to see what options are out there to give us more flexibility with position, zoom, color control/correction for video. It would be nice to be able to front light and back light the stage with the same fixtures to minimize fixture cost and create some cool looks starting from a small zoomed spot to a wide zoomed spot on a soloist/band members.
Our current control surface is Jands Byron with S3 potentially upgrading in new room to L5. Room is a 1600-1800 seat auditorium with 80 ft. stage, sloped seating, 27' catwalk trim height off stage. Key light catwalk 25-35 degree from stage. Approx 40-50' throw distance.
I haven't worked a lot with them, but they're fantastic units with very high-quality optics. The biggest reason to get a TW1 is to give you the options of dimming a tungsten source both with and without the amber drift, and these do that wonderfully. They also seemed very quiet, although I wasn't in a venue where that was critical. We used them alongside Source Fours (not in the same systems obviously) and they blended beautifully and didn't stick out like an arc source does. It may not be as identical as a Revolution, but you don't want those. We used them at around a 50' throw and they worked fine.
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For FOH I'd suggest the Vari-Lite VL1000 or ETC Source 4 Revolution, mostly to gain shutter control over potential light spill. Both are incandescent lamp, moving fixtures. The Revo can interchange modules for shutters, iris, and gobo's and uses a Wybron color scroller (32 colors ?). The VL does much the same without the interchange modules, [EDIT] does CMY mixing. Both are moving light alternative to conventional ellipsoidals and are priced about the same and somewhat less expensive then a TW1 (+$5,000). Another options would be a SeaChanger on City Theatrical AutoYokes, maybe with a DMX drop-in iris (but no DMX shutter control).
For the back light, either same or TW1's, somewhat budget dependent. As well, look at the VariLite 550 series, incandescent wash units.
As well, if your budget allows, before venturing into large numbers of movers, I'd first update the control to gain good functionality and ease of use for all those movers. I'm partial to the Ion series from ETC, but there are other options from GrandMA and Martin as well, depending on your taste in control systems.
Last edited by SteveB; May 14th, 2012 at 01:08 AM.
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I agree....when we retro-fitted, we went with 20 VL1000AS (the Arc version) for all of our front light (60'x30' stage). Pan, Tilt, 5 gobos, Shutters, CMY, and Frost. Didn't need all of the other bells and whistles that fixtures had. But the key for us was the framing shutters and VARIABLE frost. The Revolution only has a SNAP frost.
We went with Arcs because we now have a 100% moving light rig so we kept the color temperature the same. If you're doing front/back and have a mostly 3200K rig, go for the incandescent model (either built in dimmer or external dimmer).
Personally I hate the revolutions the whole design was outdated before it was even released. Personally when I am designing shows for video I go with a HMI lamp. The color temp more white but then I color correct it when I have no color (though for spots I don't color correct or do very little) I like having the power of the lamp to punch through on heavily saturated colors. I get the best feel for the proper color temps by watching how it looks on the tv monitor. There may be some tweaking required for the live audience also. Also if you like arc sources you could go with a msd arc lamp they have a warmer color temp than their msr counterparts that appear more blue.
Every time I've worked TV, I generally see a mixture of VL1000, 3500 and Source 4 Lekos. Surprisingly Ive seen the 3500 doing more for front light stuff- like shuttering out people, and the VL1000 for back light.
When I worked one of the CNN debates, I asked the LD about it and was told that the 3500 are really good for TV, just need alot of adjusting to make it perfect when it comes to color temperture. But the 1000 are perfect. Alot better than dealing with the S4 adjustments. Whether it be trying to fix hotspots or lamp blows. Etc.
And I was talking to one of the lighting guys for Beach Boys- because they just did a PBS special here, about how they work with the color temperatures due to light changes. Since it was an outdoor show from 8PM(still sunny) to 10:30(Dark). But they said that they varied the CTO on the 3500 the whole show to make it work in situations like that.
I've played with the Mac TW1 once and thought it was a neat fixture. But the three that I did play with did not look the same on camera. One was a bit more brown than the other and the cyan flags just didn't look the same. I don't know if these were lamp problems or interior issues. But that is just my experience with them.
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New question - still based on the TW1. I am currently touring with about 20 TW1s in my rig, and I am being told the 115v lamp for the external dimmer is being discontinued and that the only lamp I'll be able to get is the 80v lamp for the internal dimmer. Does anyone know anything about this?