Make-shift Lighting Ladder

[EBB]

So before hand, I have already suggested not to do this. But he wants another opinion to see if I have good enough reason not to do this... So here we go.

A client I am dealing with wants to make a few ladders out of spare pipe he normally cheese boroughs. His thoughts are to hang two 8' vertical pipes with 3 rungs holding 50 pounds each. And the rigging involved would be 1/4" aircraft cable. one point on each side of the very top rung of the ladder. All of this cheese boroughed together with three moving heads on the 3 rungs. It should also be noted that hardware is old and a mixture of rusted or chinese.

[Van]

Well, if they are not rated cheeseburgers then there goes any accountability right there. The biggest issue I see however, is how well a cable-rigged Light tree is going to support movers. That's a rather dynamic rigging solution for something that you want held extremely static.

[gafftapegreenia]

What size movers?

And Van is right, the sway is not going to make you happy, and I'm guessing you don't have the money for a Lightlock if your hardware is Chinese.

[Footer]

Take the pipe to a welding shop and have them weld it up using some angle iron for the verticals. The whole ladder can then be hung on two points or hung off a truss. Pretty easy to build and will last forever. Your going to have to cut the pipe anyway, might as well just do it right the first time. I have built these for several places I have worked at.

[danTt]

The concern here is much more about the sketchy cheeseboroughed pipe assembly rather than the 1/4 wire rope. Hanging three movers from a welded ladder would certainly be doable, although you'd probably still want to stiffen it off to something as the movement of the head would cause the whole ladder to sway. When you take into consideration that cheeseboroughs (even quality american ones) are not rated for vertical loads (from what I've heard at least... maybe i'm wrong?) It's certainly not something I'd reccommend.

That being said, two pieces of 1/4" wire rope are more than enough to support 3 50 pound moving lights, though I'd rig from the bottom of the ladder rather than the top.

[ship]

Rope ladders for climbing this is not - that’s something nobody should do on their own.

Lighting ladders I make for shows at times though. Making them by way of my responsibility and liability though is dependant on my acceptance of doing so. Very important - you don’t make rigging that you don’t feel safe in doing. “Sorry, I don’t think I’m qualified to make this.”

Second, I provide the materials - what kind of a budget this specifier has I don’t care about, I provide new materials or at very least that which I have inspected to be sufficient. Requested wire rope ladder in 8' span between cables, three lights per bar if I understand it correctly would be a bit of a stretch for me. That assuming I understand this properly. 8' vertical pipes is confusing in if height of ladder and not listed the width of the ladder, or was it height of the ladder with unknown width or bars? 8' bars verses 8' height would play a factor and while I would think it 8' height - be very clear about project. Suspect again it's 8' length of run and not width, but with rigging there is definate specifications I would be very clear about before even deciding anything I would build. This even at times a drawing in at times my drill holes might become too close to the fixtures. Where am I to drill the pipe in leaving space sufficient for the fixture? Stuff like handles sticking out etc. If told to do something, I also want to know how I am to be doing it before I decide to do it or raise a problem.

Third, I don’t do 1/4" wire rope. As per policy I set in the person responsible for making such lighting ladders, while I can make them I have chosen not to be liable for the possible added load to them on the next use. 1/4" wire rope might seem as if overkill, but it also says something that can be used for heavier weight. That plus 1/4" wire rope don’t roll well.

Overall, in “He wants” is a question of he the designer in asking, or account rep. in not believing your against it, but also not trusting your opinion or boss you work for sort of asking your opinion but not. That’s a serious problem in if asked for a second opinion in something you don’t want to make. Both says they don’t trust your experience and yet they trust you to make it properly, and says that in doing your job and not feeling safe to do what is requested you are to do so anyway.

Sure, probably it’s a safe lighting ladder once modified into something I would do overall and I would do it once specified and modified to what I feel a comfort level in doing. Not the point in having a lot of training and experience. That I said no, and trust in if I say no, it is no; I am not going to do it and you will not fire me over just one account or project. Than we figure out another better and safer solution that works for the project.

If someone want’s something made so bad.. help yourself and here are the materials even - by the way here is also the go’/no-go’ gauge and the last time the tools I have were calibrated. Perhaps better off fired in your next interview with a new company in expiation of why you were removed - right or wrong overall you took a stand in something you felt safe in rigging in doing or not. To the best of your knowledge, this for you was not safe and I did not do it. Simple enough.

Accessories such as Cheaseborough Eyes, shackles etc. can be provided by you or not, your primary job is in making this ladder and not how it’s hung. What attaches to the top thimble is not unless supplied by you really your problem in client being the rigger of your product.

(Side note if Kupo brand half Cheaseborough with silver/chrome eye bolt... it’s been noted that the eyebolts in use were not load rated for that of the Cheaseborough and their specifications were incorrect. Kupo will replace such wrong eyebolts for free.) Bought hundreds of them over the years and switched to swivel versions from TMB since than. Still though since noting that defined problem, I have replaced I think all my inventory for the load rated eye bolts from the Kupo brand in working fine as long as someone doesn’t mess with the set screw to retain it’s lack of swivel so as to make it at the angle they want. Swivel eye type cheaseboroughs are a much better idea overall in finding many examples of people (can’t even call them tech people) messing with what was factory spec. in setting a fixed chease borough thus screwing up liability.

Overall, you can specify the ladder alone and supply it to the user that wants to use their own gear to rig it. I would prefer this if making a ladder in even if the Production Manager or show crew chief pulled from stock the various other rigging materials, or bought them as I might... just made the ladder, how it got rigged wasn’t my responsibility.

Might seem cavalier and or me not helping so much, but to the extent of my concerns in asked to make this ladder, and I found problems in how it was rigged, I would not certify anything else but the ladder and present specifations persay for clamp type beyond that in not provided.

Don’t know if it helps, or not but help find the solution in options of someone else making it or to what specifications you are comfortable with doing it, if you feel sure not safe at this point. Goal is to get the production done safely and nobody is against anyone else in making art safely. Only a question of at times in being the person doing so a road block or better idea. This experience comes with ability and training. At some point no is fine enough, at other times, ok but let’s do it this way. If not, probably better off elsewhere in not compormizing your standards. These to date of your training level to the extent that you are expected to do stuff you don’t feel comfortable with doing.

[Pie4Weebl]

All sizes | LCD Soundsystem - David Scott Stone, Nancy Whang, James Murphy, Tyler Pope, Matt Thornley and Pat Mahoney | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

In 2010 LCD Soundsystem rolled around the country with a pipe and wire system that worked very nicely.

I've seen it done with moving lights as well, the bottom of the ladders were secured to the deck, and the fixtures didn't go too crazy, worked fine.

[EBB]

Thank you all for your views. I went back and looked at something and told them the following reasons why I personally wouldn't touch the project they wanted.

1: I looked over the pipes and a number of them were schedule 40 pipes that had several dents and a few had punctures in.
2: I didn't trust half of the rigging supplies. a mixture of chinese shackles and cheese boroughs make me way too uncomfortable to fly this over the heads of anyone.
3: The 1/4 aircraft cable- though it may be fine for something stationary doesn't feel "good enough" for something with movers(studio colors to be specific) for all the wiggling. I'd rather be safe than sued.

I'm not a professional when it comes to rigging. I just know enough to get me in trouble. And as Ship said before- which thank you for saying because I was thinking it the whole time I was writing the original post. If they want it done bad enough, they have the idea to do it whether my opinion matters or not. I've done my work and said my business and have cut my strings on that project. Making it clear in writing that I wanted nothing to do with it. I'm sure if it was holding up something stationary that wasn't moving like lekos or LED's, then I'd probably give it a second thought and go ahead with it. But to have 150lbs of movable weight. I just don't feel good about it and the equipment just doesn't seem like something I want to have my finger prints on at all.

[len]

I think you made the right decision.

[traxman25]

Good Choice. To me it's the 150lbs on cheese boroughs more than the movement. Add the movement into it and definite no go. I could very easily see a slightly rusty pipe sliding out of a cheese borough with the slight vibration of the whole thing swaying.