An annoying setup, because the lighting guy is lazy

[snarefire]

All right back ground leaving out pertinent details. I currently work for a rental atmospheric lighting company who has hit the slow time in the year. I just picked up a job doing a graduation party for a friend at a local community center. The design is 10 par 220w uplights, with purple gels, 5 on each wall, 3 dj lights for the dance floor, and 4 ellipsoidal lights to project graduation gobos one on each wall.

So i go into the center to the room to check out the equipment on site and see what i can use. There is an ETC Express 24/48 board, sweet! there are 40 dimmers unused, and there are something like 30 Altman 1kl6 (****ty lights i know) as well as 30 some odd old cans of some sort. So i sit down at the board, and start running channels up, only to notice i am not getting any lights on stage or off stage. Check that patch 1-1 patch......ok i can live with that.... black out button disabled......grand master is all the way up..... so whats the issue. There is no dmx cable connecting the dmx out to the data input on the wall, grab one of my personal ones, plug it in. Still no change, all right, ask the clients how they usually change the lights. They walk me to a bank of dimmer switches back stage with 12 sliders on them and show me which one does what. I turn it off, and try the board again.....no change, i turn it on try the board again no change...... So i tried patching a dimmer i knew was working with a light i knew was working...to a channel and running the intensity full up....still no change. Now i am completely lost....does anyone have any ideas as to what i am missing? Seriously i went through everything i could think of.

[cpf]

What kind of "dimmer switches" are these?

[JChenault]

It almost sounds like some kind of architectural / stage managers console with a few sliders for EZ control for lectures and such. There may be some kind of 'Take Control' switch located near the 12 slider panel ( in addition to the on/off switch).

Is the 12 slider panel and ETC panel, or someone else? Whose dimmers do they have? Any chance you could ask for a system diagram?

I guess another possibility is that the output DMX on the express console is fried. If you have some DMX device you might try attaching directly to the board and seeing if it is outputting signal. I believe that on the express there are actually two outputs that are usually set up as 1-512 in port 1, and 513 to 1024 in port 2. This can be changed so that you can put 1-512 in both port one and port two. (It might be possible that you were connecting to the wrong port as well - or the ports could just be configured wierdly)

Note - I am really grasping at straws here. Good luck.

[gafftapegreenia]

The dimmers are on, right?

[snarefire]

The dimmers on on when i run up the architectural dimmer panel. The panel itself looks to be just a random panel that one might come across in a commercial building.The panel is located stage right wing, about 5 feet in from the proscenium, and on the the panel it self it has an on/off switch and about 12 "sliders" and that is it. I have cycled the outlets on the back of the board between the 2 dmx outputs with no luck. I would ask for a system diagram, but the contracted lighting designer is uncoperative, and generally refuses to allow any other lighting tech to work with his equipment, even though he is only ever present for a large scale production. Anything involving parties, religious services, recitals and the like he does not bother to show up for. It just bothers the hell out of me for someone to design a system, and than leave no clues, or instructions on how to operate the bypass, given that the designer is never present.

[chausman]

Can you take pictures of the architectural panels? We could at least get some idea of what is installed.

[StNic54]

Hate to ask this, but did you try running a dmx cable directly to the dimmers from the console, if its available? Also, you should search out the room for a take control button, for sure. You surely should trace the DMX path, though, to make sure the console is even talking to the dimmers.

[snarefire]

I plan on just moving the console back stage to where the dimmers are and running the chord from there and seeing what i come up with. Will post pictures of the set up of the board, the dimmers, and the panel tomorow night when i am in the building again. Has anyone ever worked with a setup like this before?

[Amiers]

The guy is most likely acting that way because it gives him job security, on a side note go into Setup > Output Config (2) and check to make sure that he hasn't zero'd out the ports. Even if the patch is still there if nothing is configured for the outputs you wont have control. I would think that while the 12 slider is turn on the board wont be able to take control maybe try to turn it off and run the board without the panel on.

[snarefire]

SO i didn't get a chance to move the board back stage last night, or take a look at the dimmers. The dimmers themselves i traced back from the race ways, to a steel box which is secured shut with several 1/2" bolts, so i didnt have the chance or time to open it up. I did how ever take pictures of the panels.This is the first lighting job i have done idependently so i attached a separate photo of the finished product. To the left and up of this panel is a switch on the wall, of the type where you inserrt a key into it, much like lighting in schools and such, so i am not sure, but i might have found the switch, switch.

[Musicman56]

Is there anyone else you can talk to besides this LD? Maybe there's someone who might just know something in the venue. I would hope that someone else knows the system besides him, but since its a community center, he might be the only one.

I would try and locate the other end of the dmx input that goes into the wall. Since there was nothing in the input, there might not be anything in the output that goes to the rack. I know that some racks have an LEDs that will show you if the physical dimmer is receiving both power and signal. If this is the case, I would put dimmer 1 at x% and see if the physical dimmer responds. Then you can decide where to go from there. Maybe the dimmer rack isn't configured properly? From what it sounds like, it goes into hard wiring from the dimmers to the raceways. I think it would be less likely for there to be a problem in the actual wiring. If you're still having problems, if you can, you could try using a tool like a gam checker to see if the power is actually making it to the circuit. However, it sounds like an issue with the racks and the board to me. As far as opening up that silver box, I would be extremely careful. Check with the venue first. And if you think you absolutely need to, make sure the power is off before you do open it.

Those are my 2 cents. Hope they were of use.

[Lightingman48]

Are there parked channels or dimmers? I have one group that uses my venue and will park the step lights at full during a performance and then park them at 00 instead of releasing them afterwords. Gets annoying when you don't notice the "parked channel" indicator.

[snarefire]

Checked for parked channels and parked dimmers - nope none found. Unfortunately no chance to check for the other end of the dmx path as the dimmers are well secured in a steel cabinet which of course no one has the key for. I am curious if the key slot on the wall could be this mysterious take over switch.

Also general advice and critiscism on the lighting setup are welcome. I know the instrument covers are missing.

[iLightTheStage]

Checked for parked channels and parked dimmers - nope none found. Unfortunately no chance to check for the other end of the dmx path as the dimmers are well secured in a steel cabinet which of course no one has the key for. I am curious if the key slot on the wall could be this mysterious take over switch.

Also general advice and critiscism on the lighting setup are welcome. I know the instrument covers are missing.

Did you have any wash light for the main part of the room?

I can slightly understand the LD not wanting to give out too much info if it is his venue and he doesn't make any money when outside people are brought in. But he really shouldn't be such a control freak either.
I wouldn't be surprised if he does do something to prevent people from being able to control anything via DMX. Did you check the output settings like someone else suggested? The direct routing of the DMX from the board to the dimmers is probably your best bet for gaining control since this would bypass the wall control (in general theory). Otherwise a "take control" switch, which would most likely be that key-panel you found, is your next best bet.