Control/Dimming - Outdoor Oceanside Friendly Dimmer Rack/Pack

[RedGreenBlue132]

Here's the rundown, the stage that I work is outside, by the ocean. The current dimmer racks we use are 3 Lightronics RE-121. From being used every day of the week for 5 months in the salty air and humidity, they do not work correctly, if at all and it's becoming a major issue. I need to find a replacement for these that can withstand these outdoor conditions. Getting a permanent indoor installation is possible but highly unlikely, so 'll have to stick with a "touring" style rig, it needs to support 3 phase cam-loks and socopex (although we need a replacement for the socos if possible, the pins are corroding.) I would assume some kind of fanless, sealed dimmer rack, if they have that. I know there's another outdoor stage that's had and solved this problem. Thanks in advance!

[cdub260]

My primary venue is an amphitheater located about a quarter mile from the ocean. I too have the salt air to contend with, but Southern California is nowhere near as humid as your part of the country, so that's not as much of a concern for me. Our lighting system consists of a pair of ETC Sensor 96 racks plus an ETC Unison 24 rack installed in our stage building. I also have an ETC Sensor 12 portable rack that I put at the back of the amphitheater when I need additional circuits there and a pair of Leviton portable 20 amp dimmers for those times when I need a circuit in an odd location.

While the bulk of my systems are permanently installed inside the stage building, my portable systems, more often than not, are installed outdoors. I do what I can to protect this equipment from the elements. The portable ETC rack is always installed under our spot tower, which basically puts a the equivalent of a roof over it, protecting it from direct exposure to moisture. For my little Leviton dimmers, I've built hats for them, just a piece of painted plywood that I C-clamp to the pipe directly above the dimmer, again providing a degree of protection from direct exposure to the elements. Fortunately we almost never have wind driven rain here during our show's season.

Regular maintenance of the equipment is every bit as important as protecting it from the elements. Ideally I do a full tear down, cleaning and inspection of every piece of equipment in my inventory once a year. So far this has been enough to keep my portable dimming equipment in peak condition. Based on your description, it sounds like your environmental issues are a bit more severe than mine. Basically, this means you need to do more frequent maintenance, at least of your dimming systems.

If there are any outdoor rated dimmer racks available, I've certainly never heard of them. Granted, this may be because I've never looked.

[STEVETERRY]

Here's the rundown, the stage that I work is outside, by the ocean. The current dimmer racks we use are 3 Lightronics RE-121. From being used every day of the week for 5 months in the salty air and humidity, they do not work correctly, if at all and it's becoming a major issue. I need to find a replacement for these that can withstand these outdoor conditions. Getting a permanent indoor installation is possible but highly unlikely, so 'll have to stick with a "touring" style rig, it needs to support 3 phase cam-loks and socopex (although we need a replacement for the socos if possible, the pins are corroding.) I would assume some kind of fanless, sealed dimmer rack, if they have that. I know there's another outdoor stage that's had and solved this problem. Thanks in advance!

I do not know of any listed dimmer rack or dimmer pack that is rated anything other than NEMA 1 (indoor) use.

I suggest you explore building a climate controlled room for whatever dimmers you install, or you may end up with the same problem again in short order!

ST

[JD]

It is kind of like asking, "What oil should I use if I have sand in my crankcase?" Salt water is VERY destructive. Fresh water is not that good a conductor. Salt water is a pretty good conductor! Whatever does not get damaged by the contaminates, gets eaten away by electrolysis. As Steve said, you pretty much have to build a small environmentally controlled room. Air flow should be via exchange (air conditioner) as compared to venting or fan. Although there is some electronics that can be sealed, anything that needs air to move (Dimmers, power amps) will have a very brief lifespan.

[headcrab]

Does anyone make water-cooled dimmers?

[FMEng]

I agree with JD. The best course of action would be a small, tight room with redundant, closed loop HVAC. A pair of Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim" split HVAC systems would be ideal. Size their BTU rating so that each one handles the full heat load of the dimmers plus the solar load of the room. I would estimate about $6,000 per HVAC unit, installed.

Failing that idea, I would go through the rack and replace all trim pots, all DIP switches, and all fans. I would also give every connectorized connection and card edge connector a bath of DeoxIT D followed by a spritz of DeoxIT Shield-S. Preventing oxidation on connections will go a long way toward reliability. Do the application at the beginning of each season and half way through if needed.

I would include the use of the protectant in the contract for the new rack as well, so that it gets applied during installation. Do not underestimate what the magic spray can do. I have had a few pieces of broadcast equipment that wouldn't operate reliably without this treatment at intervals.

[scotteckers]

I can't help but thinking about those saltwater dimmers from the 1890s...

[jglodeklights]

First, about my theater. It is a barn from the 1880's (or even earlier) that was converted in the 1930's to a 500 seat theater with a steel cage structure around the stage to support a hemp fly system. We are 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean. The dimmers are somewhat fortunate in that they are located in the third coolest room in the building, but it is also the third most damp (the orchestra pit and prop shop located at basement level are the first and second respectively). Our season runs May through September, so we see inside temperatures between 45 and 95 degrees, and humidity between 10 and 100%.

Our dimmers of choice are ETC Sensor portable and touring racks; specifically a Sensor 3 SR48 touring rack and one each of the Sensor SR12 and SR6 portable racks. They hold up well for our season, but we get different ones every year as we rent them (although we did just purchase the SR48 new this year). As others have said, you will really want to create a climate controlled room which wouldn't need to be very large with how many dimmers you need. Even in dimmer packs without fans, you'll have issues over time if they are exposed to salt water air for extended periods of time (or always).

The other option to investigate is shifting to LED equipment. I don't know your stage or budget so I don't know if that is fiscally feasible or will be bright enough in the price range you are looking at, but there are several options in weather rated fixtures out there.

[gafftaper]

I was thinking the same thing, it might be best to switch to outdoor LED fixtures and give up on the dimmers entirely. At this point the LED wash lights are excellent and rapidly becoming reasonably priced, the LED ellipsoidal is still very new and expensive. Perhaps plan to make the switch to LED in two phases, buy some wash lights now and a couple of cheap dimmers to baby through for a year or two until you can afford some LED ellipsoidals.

[meatpopsicle]

I do not know of any listed dimmer rack or dimmer pack that is rated anything other than NEMA 1 (indoor) use.

I suggest you explore building a climate controlled room for whatever dimmers you install, or you may end up with the same problem again in short order!

ST

While a closed atmosphere system would be best I can't help but think that you'll get good service by building a small shed and equiping it with an inexpensive (3-400.00) air-conditioner. While not completely free of the salt air it would go a long way towards protecting your racks. A de-humidifier might also work though it and the air-conditioner would play tug-o-war with the heat loads. Here on Boardwalk Empire we are right next to the East River and our racks are contained in a shipping container (not air tight) and cooled with 220v household air conditioners. The air conditioners work when the racks do.

[STEVETERRY]

Does anyone make water-cooled dimmers?

Actually, the word would be "made", not "make". Some time back, a company in Germany made a professional water-cooled dimmer rack.

Suffice it to say, it was a science experiment that was not repeated.

ST

[STEVETERRY]

While a closed atmosphere system would be best I can't help but think that you'll get good service by building a small shed and equiping it with an inexpensive (3-400.00) air-conditioner. While not completely free of the salt air it would go a long way towards protecting your racks. A de-humidifier might also work though it and the air-conditioner would play tug-o-war with the heat loads. Here on Boardwalk Empire we are right next to the East River and our racks are contained in a shipping container (not air tight) and cooled with 220v household air conditioners. The air conditioners work when the racks do.

Clever!

ST

[headcrab]

Actually, the word would be "made", not "make". Some time back, a company in Germany made a professional water-cooled dimmer rack.

Suffice it to say, it was a science experiment that was not repeated.

ST

Why not? Of course it would be a niche product, but there might be situations where liquid cooling would be easier than air cooling.

[RedGreenBlue132]

I was thinking the same thing, it might be best to switch to outdoor LED fixtures and give up on the dimmers entirely. At this point the LED wash lights are excellent and rapidly becoming reasonably priced, the LED ellipsoidal is still very new and expensive. Perhaps plan to make the switch to LED in two phases, buy some wash lights now and a couple of cheap dimmers to baby through for a year or two until you can afford some LED ellipsoidals.

we're considering it, problem with this is that the fixtures themselves will be left outside for 7 months 24/7 and if a hurricane hits we're out of luck.

we are not aloud to build anything because the stage is owned by the city. the only solution I can see is frequent cleaning and maintenance of the dimmers. So far i'm looking at the ETC smart packs, they have a humidity tolerance of 95% and they I don't think they will suck in as much of the ocean air as the lightronics re-121. does anyone see a problem with those?

[Les]

It sounds almost like you need something like the EcoDome by High-End (discontinued?) or one of these products from Tempest Lighting to put your dimmers in:

Tempest Lighting, Inc. - Products

The enclosure will more than likely cost more than the dimmers.

[STEVETERRY]

Why not? Of course it would be a niche product, but there might be situations where liquid cooling would be easier than air cooling.

On the surface, perhaps yes. And, amazingly...they even made such a product.

After serious reflection, no way on God's green earth would this be even a halfway good idea.



ST

[headcrab]

I'm missing something...
What's wrong with it?

Siemens makes water cooled VFDs. http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/intern...edbrochure.pdf

[chausman]

I'm missing something...
What's wrong with it?

Siemens makes water cooled VFDs. http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/intern...edbrochure.pdf

I'm going to take a guess.

On the surface, perhaps yes. And, amazingly...they even made such a product.

After serious reflection, no way on God's green earth would this be even a halfway good idea.



ST

[FMEng]

While a closed atmosphere system would be best I can't help but think that you'll get good service by building a small shed and equiping it with an inexpensive (3-400.00) air-conditioner. While not completely free of the salt air it would go a long way towards protecting your racks. A de-humidifier might also work though it and the air-conditioner would play tug-o-war with the heat loads. Here on Boardwalk Empire we are right next to the East River and our racks are contained in a shipping container (not air tight) and cooled with 220v household air conditioners. The air conditioners work when the racks do.

The problem with window air conditioners is that they are not closed loop. They pull in outside air and they don't filter effectively. They would keep the dimmers cool enough, (provided they are big enough) but heat isn't the cause of the problems. The only way dimmer reliability will improve is to prevent oxidation and corrosion from environmental factors. If the environment cannot be kept clean and dry, then chemical protectants are the only solution. I know of what I speak as I have to keep broadcast transmitters on the air in rather hostile places, including the coast.

If you are going to throw any money at this, then I suggest doing it so that it actually works. That means building a proper room or shed and doing the math to calculate how much waste heat the dimmers produce, and converting that to cooling Tons. Then have your friendly HVAC person calculate the solar heat load of the space and add the two together.

Don't discount the idea of trying the Caig products, if you are up to some electronic surgery. They are highly effective, and not expensive compared to replacing dimmers.

[FMEng]

I'm missing something...
What's wrong with it?

Ask any broadcast engineer who has run big UHF TV transmitters. Most of them are water cooled. Many of them have failed spectaculary at some point. One leaky hose clamp or rotted bit of rubber rubber mixed with several thousand volts of beam supply and the result is fireworks. Those guys spend hours of time and buy lots of parts doing preventative maintenance on the things to keep them leak free and running. Without lots of tender, loving care, a water cooled dimmer would be a failure waiting to happen.

[cpf]

I'd think liquid cooling a modular dimming rack would be quite a challenge. Short of immersing the entire thing in mineral oil and hoping for the best, each major heat producing component (or heatsink attacked thereto) in each module would have to have its own heat exchange block, plus all the tubing, disconnects, etc... Can't imagine it ending well at all.

[RedGreenBlue132]

Can I coat the inside connections with some kind of thick gel or epoxy to keep it from corroding?


side note: the enclosures from Tempest are awesome, but I don't see anything for dimmers, but this might help with the fixtures. Thanks, Les.

[gafftaper]

Is there a reason you can't use a portable rack and just maintain it well? Spend some money to set the rest of your system up so it's really easy to just roll in the rack plug in and go. When the show is over just disconnect and throw it on a truck or roll it into a dressingroom. Yeah, it's a little hassle but you should get years of reliable use as long as you give it a good annual cleaning.

[RedGreenBlue132]

Is there a reason you can't use a portable rack and just maintain it well? Spend some money to set the rest of your system up so it's really easy to just roll in the rack plug in and go. When the show is over just disconnect and throw it on a truck or roll it into a dressingroom. Yeah, it's a little hassle but you should get years of reliable use as long as you give it a good annual cleaning.

This is EXACTLY what we've been doing. I've realized real issue here is this, I work for an entertainment subcontractor, and our contractor owns the equipment and they maintain it whenever they want, if at all, and when they do they send it to a SOUND company for maintenance and they don't do a very good job. So basically we need to get our own equipment to do the job , and we need something that will be reliable and work decent out doors that we can maintain ourselves when we need to.

[MarshallPope]

You said that you are not allowed to actually build a shed to contain your dimmers. Would you be able to get a small uhaul-type trailer and install whatever climate control system you need in it?

[JD]

You said that you are not allowed to actually build a shed to contain your dimmers. Would you be able to get a small uhaul-type trailer and install whatever climate control system you need in it?

Not a bad Idea! And when shows aren't running, take it inland a bit. Twist a few Soco's and Cam-locs and you are on your way.

Also, wonder if you could special request ETC to MFP their boards on a special build. That would cut down on trace and component damage, just can't do it on trim pots or connectors. Miller Stevens makes a whole line of conformal coatings. Product Listing | Miller Stephenson

[STEVETERRY]

Not a bad Idea! And when shows aren't running, take it inland a bit. Twist a few Soco's and Cam-locs and you are on your way.

Also, wonder if you could special request ETC to MFP their boards on a special build. That would cut down on trace and component damage, just can't do it on trim pots or connectors. Miller Stevens makes a whole line of conformal coatings. Product Listing | Miller Stephenson

You need to be a bit careful adding conformal coatings post-manufacture. They can totally change the thermal characteristics of the product, negate the listing, and void the warranty. I would say "Don't do it".

As to whether ETC would conformally coat a product as a custom, the answer is likely to be no. We want to help our customers, but this would be a difficult one to do from an economics, time, and compliance point-of-view.

ST

[StNic54]

I would seriously look at the use of LED fixtures as the previous post had said. Using enclosures or building a dimmer room with AC would be quite costly (permits!), and you'd be better off billing it as equipment upgrade/replacement and switch to LED's entirely. I doubt the enclosures for movers are made for the overall heat of multiple dimmer racks, but maybe I'm wrong. I worked by the ocean in South Fla and I have spent many hours fixing and replacing salt-damaged units, and all in all an ip-rated LED goes much further with power consumption with minimal damage. The Source4 LED Ellipsoidals are pushing pretty high for a leko, so you may want to start with wash LED's and see how you feel. Once the last rack is kaput you should have no issues asking for new fixtures to cover the shows. Good luck, and remember: I love jet noise.

[FMEng]

It seems to me that LED instruments would just move the problem from the dimmer to the light. After all, there is a fair amount of electronics inside those lights with mechanical connections like addressing switches and internal connections that can oxidize and fail, too. At least there are methods to make the dimmer rack more reliable. I cannot say the same for the LED light, unless there are some that are completely weather sealed.

As for conformal coatings, I don't think that would solve the problem. The issue is not corrosion of components like semiconductors, resistors, capacitors, etc. The issue is oxidation of mechanical connections like those found in switches, ribbon cable connectors, circuit breakers, card edge sockets, dip sockets, etc. You can't coat those.

[Les]

I see the Source Four LED being mentioned here, but isn't that just a more expensive solution than risking some dimmers? As far as I know, the Source Four LED is rated for indoor use only (same to be said for the dimmer packs, but they can be cheaper and easier to house/remove and store).

[Aman121]

Until you get a proper instillation, I would say your best bet is to keep doing what your doing, and keep up with the maintenance as much as possible. As mentioned before, maybe you could build an impromptu home for the touring rack out of plywood and a few room air conditioners, but long term a more permanent enclosure would be best. Salt is absolutely evil to electronics. When we were on vacation in N.C. I stumbled on a few power amps someone was tossing, I figured what the heck, maybe I can fix them. Took them home and found the insides totally corroded and beyond hope.

[techieman33]

I see the Source Four LED being mentioned here, but isn't that just a more expensive solution than risking some dimmers? As far as I know, the Source Four LED is rated for indoor use only (same to be said for the dimmer packs, but they can be cheaper and easier to house/remove and store).

It's nowhere close to being suited for an outdoor life. It would have all of the problems that any ERS has with being outside in the weather, and then all of the potential electronics problems to throw on top of them. I could see buying some inexpensive IP 65 LED par cans for wash units to help reduced the dimmers that would be needed though.

[Les]

I'm not sure if it was addressed yet, but could you not just have a station with male pigtails hanging down? Have the dimmers in a roadcase and pull it up and patch it in when it's needed, pull it away and store it indoors after each performance. Only works well if you have Edison outputs on your dimmers though. Seems like it would be worth the time - a dimmer exposed to rain or moisture is not covered by any warranty or insurance should it go up in flames and possibly injure someone or cause property damage.

[TimMiller]

Personally I would get a trailer with the dimmers mounted inside soco connection accessible through a panel on the outside same with cam and 2 rv AC units on top. You can find trailers partially completed this way if you keep your eyes open for "toy haulers". If you look really hard you can find some units with large generators on them. A while back I found one that was setup to be a mobile lab complete with a large inside work area all air conditioned, bathroom, and a 75kva MQ genset.