Gear Pricing

[theatre4jc]

At my church we may be starting a new service that will require more of a concert feel than what our room can currently handle with the gear in it...so that means maybe new toys! But at this stage I've been asked to get pricing and make some preliminary designs for the room, but I don't want to get my dealer too excited because it could always be cut. So I thought I would ask to see if anyone knew some rough MSRP or actual street prices for the following fixtures that are either on my possibilities list and a couple fixtures I've been told I had to get the prices for:

Vari-Lite VL880
Vari-Lite VL3000 Spot
Vari-Lite VL3500
Vari-Lite VL3500 Wash
Vari-Lite VL2500 Spot
Vari-Lite VLX
Martin Mac Viper
Martin Mac III Profile
Martin Mac 101
Martin Mac 301
Martin Aura
Coemar Infintiy Profile XL
Clay Paky Sharpy
Robe Robin 600 LED Wash

These are all fixtures that will do the designs I have in mind, plus a couple others I have the info for already. Any help would be great!

[StNic54]

Most of these fixtures are going to range from $6-12k a piece MSRP, with dealers being able to work with you as they are able. The Sharpy's are going to be pricey for a very specific, air effects unit. I'm not sure that they would be a good start for a church, and they are known to melt things (still, an awesome fixture). The VLX is a great fixture with a wide spread and clean quality. I'm sure the Mac301 is a low-priced alternative, and it's a quick moving wash unit with a good spread. The 3500 is going to cost simply because it's got the shutters in it - are shutters necessary for your church right away? We're awaiting a shipment of Vipers (they are churning them out at Martin as quick as possible) - if you choose Martin units, the Vipers will be a better bet since they have lower power consumption and have been designed to be the final discharge unit for Martin. I say this without having used the unit, though....

Honestly, you can simply google each fixture + "MSRP" and you'll at least get ball park used prices and some real values as well, but many sales reps won't post prices online due to the nature of the business. Don't sweat the dealer's excitement levels - it's all a part of the game, giving quotes for fixtures, and not always getting the sale.
You've got some great resources in Atl and you can always contact any of the vendors directly and just ask. Maybe some vendors on this site will privately message you with some help, but I can say that you aren't looking at the bargain-basement fixtures, that's for sure. Good luck!

[theatre4jc]

Thanks for all that! I guess I should also state that this will be in a 7,500 seat venue with a 40' height to the bottom of the cats over the stage. that already has 6 VL3500s in the room. It just doesn't have the amount of eye candy and show that we will be going for with this service. I know I'll be spending a good chunk of change, I am only needing ballparks for the guys with the money to have heart attacks to. I've got used prices on all but the Vipers, which I saw in a demo and they look pretty sweet. Must say I'm jealous you are getting some. It's near the top of my list for what I may actually get.

[techieman33]

Google shopping will usually get you decent results, with most sites listed selling at MSRP.

[Pie4Weebl]

Talk to you dealer and work on coming up with a few packages.

Don't forget, you'll need power and data distribution for these new lights as well!

[avkid]

What kind of electrical service is in place?

[CBR372]

If it is eye-candy that you are looking for, the sharpies are awesome. Really low power consumption (189w) and they look great in the air. I played with a couple of them (Chrome Plated!) in relatively small space (70'x60' blackbox) and they are very quick and super bright. As well the VLX adds a lot more functionality with a very large range of colors for that eye-candy.

[soundlight]

Your best bet would really be to call up a couple companies who sell the fixtures and ask for prices. The more you buy, the better a deal they'll be willing to cut. MSRP means nothing with these kinds of fixtures - with any kind of significant quantity you'll be hundreds or thousands (depending on the fixture & quantity) below listed MSRP. Besides, a lot of these items are POA from the manufacturer - so it comes down to the more you buy the cheaper it is. Don't worry about getting your dealer fired up about a sale - tell them what's up and just get some numbers. And make sure to get from more than one dealer, always a good idea to compare when getting a package this big.

I'd also look at the brand new 1500 watt VLs - the VL 3015, 3515, and 3015LT (the 3015LT in particular). I haven't seen 'em yet, but the 3015 and 3515 are just 1500 watt versions of the 3000 and 3500 spots. The 3015LT is a behemoth fixture designed to compete with the MACIII. Pretty sweet effects package in that one. As for the 2500 spots, they're being phased out - don't even consider. Go for the VL770 or the VL880 which is on your list - great fixtures. The 2500s gotten much more expensive since they're being phased out, which is odd to me. The VL880s are phenomenal little fixtures - we had all 3 new little VL spots in for a demo and they are sweet. Much better than the 2500 Spot in my opinion for a lot of reasons - not the least of which is the lack of those annoying square/oblong/whatever gobos. Great gobo selection, great color mixing, and the generally phenomenal VL optical train.

As for the Auras - we got some of those in a few months ago and they're stellar fixtures. They can get really beamy down at the 11 degree end which is great, and they do great flood at the wide end of the zoom (though there is some significant intensity loss, obviously). They are beamier than the 101s though, which surprised me, because the 101s are already pretty beamy. Make sure to get a demo and ensure that the intensity will cut it in your venue - I don't think you'll have a problem with that though.

As for the Sharpys - just make sure that you won't be having them on the deck in places where you could toast people or things. Elevate them enough to avoid that. I've heard some pretty bad stories about people almost setting sets or instruments on fire. One guy told me that he left one pointing at a grand piano cover for a few minutes and someone started yelling at him and he saw the piano cover start to smoke. As is listed directly on the fixture, minimum 40' throw. And if you leave them in one place for too long without the prism engaged, you'll have a dozen pissed off patrons coming up to you at the console in the middle of the show and telling you to stop pointing the lasers in their eyes (yes, apparently that actually happened when someone pointed Sharpys in to the audience and left them static for too long - but it is a story from the sound guy at the gig, so he might have been exaggerating when he said 12 people).

[gafftaper]

If all the usual factors run in your favor, you may get your discount up into the 15%-20% off MSRP range. But unfortunately, you don't know which products have slim profit margins and which have lots of room until you get real bids. If everything in the package has a thin profit margin, you'll probably end up with a bid around 10% under MSRP. So that's where I start, Google MSRP's and then take off 10%. You'll have a solid but conservative estimate. You can go to your superiors and say, it will be under $100,000 and be confident that you are correct. When it comes in at 95,000 you will make everyone happy that you saved even more money.

P.S. Don't forget sales tax and shipping costs in your budget estimates.

[theatre4jc]

Thanks guys, some nice advice. I had not heard that about the Sharpy's being a fire hazard. Our cloud is 60' high so we should be good there but I may stray away from them just because it's pretty intense for a church effect, when I could do and LED and have safer eye candy, that can also give, more limited, beam effects. Luckily power isn't an issue, the place was built with disconnects on every CAT (6 total), which are all currently 80amps, but are all rated to be re-breakered to 200amps each! And then on stage I have a 400amp and 2 200amp disconnects. I will build a couple small PDUs to fit the rig, but we have a master electrician on staff, so that will be done properly. I'm leaning towards the VL880 or Martin Viper for in the air. I'm a certified VL tech so that makes me lean a tiny bit more to the VL880 side, but I saw a demo of the Viper and liked it a lot...but I've seen the VL880 in my space from a tour and it worked great from my throw height...we shall see what the budget says...

[avkid]

1200 amps 3 phase just in the catwalks?
(I may hate you a little now)