Lighting Proposal

[derekleffew]

Be carefull about leaning too heavy on the power savings, Charc. I believe STEVETERRY wrote an article recently about a specific instance, (NYCB?), where the savings were not nearly what was imagined, primarily due to the fact that theatre fixtures do not run at full, and seldom for the entire 2-3 hour performance. Of course, you'll be long gone when/if the administration figures this out.

[SteveB]

Be carefull about leaning too heavy on the power savings, Charc. I believe STEVETERRY wrote an article recently about a specific instance, (NYCB?), where the savings were not nearly what was imagined, primarily due to the fact that theatre fixtures do not run at full, and seldom for the entire 2-3 hour performance. Of course, you'll be long gone when/if the administration figures this out.

Very true especially when a calculation is made of XX,XXX wattage load currently, versus YY,YYY with 575's ASSUMING it's running 24/7, which no theatrical load - even a movie or TV shoot, ever typically runs.

Still, any savings can help make a case for either new lamp types, or new fixtures when simply changing lamp types isn't practical or advised given other cost factors, such as very old fixtures costing you in higher maintenance and labor.

BTW, any link to Steves article ?.

Steve B.

[derekleffew]

I can't recall where I read it. STEVETERRY?

[Charc]

This is true. Perhaps I'll stress the point less. The reason why I really wanted to stress the point was none of my proposal will make sense to these parents, all very liberal. But if I present big numbers about energy savings... well... that's the real selling point.

[soundlight]

This is true. Perhaps I'll stress the point less. The reason why I really wanted to stress the point was none of my proposal will make sense to these parents, all very liberal. But if I present big numbers about energy savings... well... that's the real selling point.

After you calculate it, play it up. It works on 'em. This really might be the thing that gets them on board if they're all liberal.

[Logos]

What I did once was calculate per hour savings at 80% of load. When the new bills started coming in I turned out to be pretty close.

[Bob]

Don't forget about irises!?! Or even smaller circular gobos, they are most likely cheaper than even lens tubes. And can save your butt, when you don't have right focal length left, for that last minute special you need to add...

Another note about prices... ALWAYS over estimate the cost a little, I had an energy proposal take 18 months to work it's way through the red tape, but once it was approved, I got everything that was spec'd including spare lamps.

[Grog12]

Don't forget about irises!?! Or even smaller circular gobos, they are most likely cheaper than even lens tubes. And can save your butt, when you don't have right focal length left, for that last minute special you need to add...
Another note about prices... ALWAYS over estimate the cost a little, I had an energy proposal take 18 months to work it's way through the red tape, but once it was approved, I got everything that was spec'd including spare lamps.

***shiver*** And have a dim special!!!!....WOOT!!!!

[gafftaper]

Gaff, PM received, I'll look into it, but I noticed one of the dealers mentioned didn't ship complete instruments. I'd hoped to get gel-frame, safety, lamp, c-clamp, included with the unit. It might breakdown in a package deal, I'll call for details.

You can get anything you want Charc if you're willing to pay for it. I've got 133 instruments coming. I chose to pay $3.10 per connector and install them myself vs. pay around $10 each to have them installed by the dealer. $917 saved buys a lot. I can teach a student some electrical wiring skills and getting their labor for free. I saved another thousand bucks or so by ordering the the instruments in two pieces and assembling them myself. The company will gladly come do a plot for you and hang the lights. But it'll cost you.

[Charc]

You can get anything you want Charc if you're willing to pay for it. I've got 133 instruments coming. I chose to pay $3.10 per connector and install them myself vs. pay around $10 each to have them installed by the dealer. $917 saved buys a lot. I can teach a student some electrical wiring skills and getting their labor for free. I saved another thousand bucks or so by ordering the the instruments in two pieces and assembling them myself. The company will gladly come do a plot for you and hang the lights. But it'll cost you.

Any package I spec will have connectors installed. IMHO, it's the way to go. I've seen the work of the powers above me. It's not better than mine, and we all know mine is &#$@-tastic. It's worth the money to me knowing that these will have solid electrical connections.

[lighttechie5948]

Scrollers???

They would be better because "it would save time for techs to pick out/order insert gel" - Sales Pitch

DMX Toys?? It really isn't that complicated for someone to understand. One channel for intensity and one for color.

[gafftaper]

Scrollers???
They would be better because "it would save time for techs to pick out/order insert gel" - Sales Pitch
DMX Toys?? It really isn't that complicated for someone to understand. One channel for intensity and one for color.

Have to completely disagree. Do you realize what it's like out there in a typical high school. The are very few schools that have people who even understand basics like don't touch the lamp with your bare fingers. Lighting design is point all the lights at the stage and turn them on. Program a console is an unknown... I stunned the people at a local high school who were using their Express as a two scene preset. I taught them how to program a submaster and they were AMAZED. They weren't sure why they would ever need to program cues. I'm telling you, the vast majority of high school theater would have no idea what to do with a scroller.

If you go back a year or so when Charc first found us he had discovered an I-cue in the back of a store room at his school. Someone had purchased a few years ago but it got shoved in a corner because no one knew what it was or how to use. it. No, unless it's a full performing arts center with a real T.D. the school should focus completely on conventionals.

[Kelite]

Sorry to be so late to the party!


<Okay, point taken on the EA, I'll take the hit on Gel. Does it noticeably consume gel faster?>

When gel gets consumed too quickly, remember that you may add a couple GelMisers to the S4 PARs and not worry about changing out the gel every time you turn around.

Just a thought-

[gafftaper]

Hey Keith, I only see the small picture of Gel Miser on your home page that loads randomly if you're lucky. Does it have it's own page yet?

[Kelite]

Hey Keith, I only see the small picture of Gel Miser on your home page that loads randomly if you're lucky. Does it have it's own page yet?

The Gel Miser will have it's very own page Jan. 1st

It's been a busy last quarter here at Apollo, with the new website, new catalogs, Gel Kits and the like. Sorry not to have this informational cutsheet immediately available to you.

Here is a link for those not wishing to refresh the page until it comes up- http://www.internetapollo.com/App_Su...e/GelMiser.jpg

[gafftaper]

The Gel Miser will have it's very own page Jan. 1st
It's been a busy last quarter here at Apollo, with the new website, new catalogs, Gel Kits and the like. Sorry not to have this informational cutsheet immediately available to you.
Here is a link for those not wishing to refresh the page until it comes up- http://www.internetapollo.com/App_Su...e/GelMiser.jpg

Thanks Keith... now stop reading the booth and get back to stuffing those boxes!

[Charc]

Update:

The proposal was handed to my Dept Head awhile ago, who evidently did nothing with it. However, today she brought up wireless intercoms, and told me to (as per usual) "figure it out". So I called BMI, talked with a sales guy, talked about the Telex 300: 2 base stations, 8 transceivers, 8 headsets, and confirmed they could "sharpen up the price" (When he said that I really wanted to ask if he was using a donut or EDLT .).

So I crunched those numbers last period, handed that in, looking to be about 13,500 to implement such a system... I told her before I did the research that it was gonna come with a price tag, she said perhaps we could sell the rest of the candy left over from the musical and "make it happen"...

After giving her the numbers she said she was going to run it by the <removed> committee... this afternoon, our one shot at any extra funding for the next 3-5 years.

Lights or intercom? Personally, I think it's moronic to go for the intercom. We won't get it, the people with the money won't care if she just rolls up randomly, without knowing anything, presenting some figures so that we can more effectively communicate. That's in opposition to a well thought out proposal for lighting with clear benefits tailored to the audience that will read them.

[gafftapegreenia]

The peeps in charge always like the cool flashy things.

[Charc]

The peeps in charge always like the cool flashy things.

What if I write an FX cue? Does it count as cool and flashy then?

[gafftaper]

Why wireless? I'm really NOT a fan of wireless. It's so much more expensive and even the best ones have their issues. You also have batteries to deal with... don't want them going dead mid show. In most cases the ASM is the only person who REALLY needs wireless and they can get by with a more reliable signal and no dead batteries by just giving them a longer cord.

Call your friend at BMI back and ask how much the same system would cost wired. You could use the other half the money for lights. Also I would encourage you to check out Production Intercom. I've got the the BP .15 belt packs, they are awesome metal case, and half the size of the plastic Clear Com packs.

[SteveB]

We purchased a Telex / RTS dual channels system about 15 years ago, it's been extraordinarily reliable and very convenient in use. 2 channels over 3 pin audio cable. The belt packs are expensive, but very durable. Only issue we've found is that the headset connection is reversed in it's wiring from Clear-Com typical, as well as being a male connector on the headset cable, vs. female with CC, thus adapters are required if you want to use headsets from a CC system.

The RTS is very common in the TV world, as the belt packs are easily configurable for a lot of different functions.

Highly recommended

http://www.rtstw.com/product.php?id=9000673821

Steve Bailey
Brooklyn College

[TimMiller]

I usually like using wired. Then a couple of wireless units for maily just setup and rehersal, so the electrican can talk to the ld, and the electrican can go running around the building fixing things so the ld can keep on programming. With our company we went with 4 telex units. They seem to go through batteries quickly sometimes. You also have to make sure they dont walk off on you. But for the booth and backstage that should be wired. We occasionally give the stage manager wireless so she or he can go run around and take care of a problem while being on com.

[Lightingguy32]

Have to completely disagree. Do you realize what it's like out there in a typical high school. The are very few schools that have people who even understand basics like don't touch the lamp with your bare fingers. Lighting design is point all the lights at the stage and turn them on. Program a console is an unknown... I stunned the people at a local high school who were using their Express as a two scene preset. I taught them how to program a submaster and they were AMAZED. They weren't sure why they would ever need to program cues. I'm telling you, the vast majority of high school theater would have no idea what to do with a scroller.
If you go back a year or so when Charc first found us he had discovered an I-cue in the back of a store room at his school. Someone had purchased a few years ago but it got shoved in a corner because no one knew what it was or how to use. it. No, unless it's a full performing arts center with a real T.D. the school should focus completely on conventionals.

Not to be a big fish in a little pond, but gafftaper, I am a high schooler who has known how to program both ETC and Strand lighting desks, focus lights, do designs, and change lamps properly (a matter of fact I am the only one left in my high school tech club with that sort of training) since 7th grade, I started tech theater in 5th

[icewolf08]

Not to be a big fish in a little pond, but gafftaper, I am a high schooler who has known how to program both ETC and Strand lighting desks, focus lights, do designs, and change lamps properly (a matter of fact I am the only one left in my high school tech club with that sort of training) since 7th grade, I started tech theater in 5th

See, but the thing is Lightingguy32, that you just admitted that you are the last one currently with any training. Which is very similar to many HS theatres. Usually tech goes in waves, you have a few years with a good crew, then there is a lull, and then a good crew again. Sometimes that good crew consists of only one person.

While it is really fun for the people who know what they are doing and appreciate having high tech gear to have it, it isn't always the best investment for HS theatre. Sure, updating to new fixtures from 360Qs and 1KLs, Parellipsepheres and such is good, but Gafftaper is right, thing like I-Cues and MLs will sit in a closet until someone who knows what they are stumbles on them.

Many high school theatres, even the ones with students who know what they are doing, don't take the time to keep up with basic maintenance. It usually takes a pyrotechnics show for them to realize that the wiring in a fixture or connector may be bad. Gear collects a lot of dust, and fixtures get cleaned when the principal wants to give a talk in the auditorium and there is just not enough light coming out of them.

I realize that not all high school theatres are like this, and probably most the the high schools represented by CB members don't fall into the extremes of what I have been describing. Everyone wants cool gear, but it is more important in a HS situation to have good working conventional gear.

[DarSax]

^ Yes, definitely. ^

If you remember from my incessant ramblings on it a year or so ago, my high school puts on a yearly ridiculousness show with 20+ moving lights, a ridiculous board (hog2, maxxyz, light jockey).

AND YET

In a couple years, it seems that a lot of the tech talent is going to be gone from the school, and they're going to be left with a lot of shoddy equipment and people who won't know how to use the toys.

It's possible that with high-end DMX equipment, you could encourage students to step up to the plate and learn how to use it, but you can't depend on it. Suddenly, you're left with a $3,000 paperweight and a principal who wants more light and isn't going to get it.


--
Also, the service part is very important. The situation of the lights in my high school is deplorable. I knew that when I was in high school, and wanted to fix it, but simply did not have the time to service them. And if we had owned DMX equipment, that would have doubled, tripled, service time that I already didn't have.

[Lightingguy32]

Well put it this year, ever since I stepped in our high school auditorium, I have spent each year checking the connectors on all fixtures (old ones) and making sure the new ones (all of the older units are inventory, our new ones were put in last year during a "renovation") stay up to par and are benched properly (strain reliefs, electric contacts, socket quality, clean optics... etc).

[Charc]

Well put it this year, ever since I stepped in our high school auditorium, I have spent each year checking the connectors on all fixtures (old ones) and making sure the new ones (all of the older units are inventory, our new ones were put in last year during a "renovation") stay up to par and are benched properly (strain reliefs, electric contacts, socket quality, clean optics... etc).

And you have time in the day to do homework?

I get swamped over here.

[Lightingguy32]

yup, have time to do homework.