Hanging Sidelight

[rochem]

For the first time in anyone's memory, I am going to be using extensive sidelight for a show at my school. After finally convincing my TD that sidelight can actually be beneficial, I now need to figure out a way to hang them. Booms are out of the question because they take up valuable space in the wings, and we need all the space we can get for this large of a show. I have just started building a couple floor mounts from the thread this summer for the shins, but I am going to have to rig some sort of ladder mechanism for everything else. I know Altman makes hanging ladders, but at ~$300 per unit, those are well outside of our price range. A couple weeks ago when I was working at a local roadhouse, I saw that the show had hung a pipe hanging down from an electric and used that as a sidelight ladder, but I didn't get a chance to see how they did it (probably a cheeseburger).

How do you usually set up your sidelight ladders? We have no grid or anything, so they would need to attach to battens and be as lightweight as possible to avoid overloading the lineset. Anyone have any ideas?

[derekleffew]

Perhaps a combination of Vertical Extension Tubes (or use 1/2"-13 threaded rod) and Safer Sidearms™, or (standard sidearms)?



Just cheeseboroughing a vertical pipe to your electric will cause it to hang funny, you really need to keep the centers of gravity inline. Either the City Theatrical Pipe end tail down for $210:
,
or this Kee Klamp:


Alternatively, a lighting ladder can be constructed from Kee Klamps, Cheeseboroughs, Rota-Locks, threaded fittings, or welded; but these get heavy quickly. Also bear in mind that a pipe-end ladder will prevent lowering the pipe to the deck, and thus the arbor to the loading bridge; and will therefore complicate counterweight loading/unloading issues. One place I worked had ladders fashioned of Unistrut, which I didn't enjoy, but seemed to function satisfactorily.

Edit: Slightly controversial hi-jack. Make sure to safety your fixtures to the permanent structure, not to the hanging device. The controversy comes when discussing whether it's acceptable to safety all the fixtures together, or must each be "home run" to the fixed mounting position?

[Wolf]

One type of sidelight is achieved by hanging the fixture as far off stage as possible on the electric. This is probably not the desired affect but it is an option.

and slightly off topic but, what did you discus with your TD so he would allow you to do this?

[rochem]

I am including high sides in the design as well, and these will be used throughout the show as part of a wash. But I really want some light from lower angles to create a couple interesting looks on stage for a number of key scenes.

My TD is really good at sound for the theatre, pretty good at general construction and such, but not so knowledgeable about lighting. He can run the board, but only the very basic things, and he is firmly set into the idea that you should use McCandless to the letter, R02 and R60 in all lights, and then hang specials using 6" fresnels over the stage. So it took me a while to convey to him that having a light coming from a very low angle from the side in a specific scene would help to add to the tension and such. It wasn't so much not being allowed, as him not seeing why I would want to put lights there. We haven't started talking about how were going to rig it or anything yet, just established that it is at least worth a try. If it turns out to be way too expensive or time-consuming, then he'll most likely just say that it's not worth the trouble. So I need to come up with some possible solutions, then relay those to him to see what he thinks.

[bhallerm]

Michael,

I'm a new high school TD that's learning lighting at a rapid pace, so take this with a grain of salt. We did some side light in our fall production to create a sunrise look. You mentioned that space is a premium, but could you put up light trees? The bases we have are pretty inconspicuous and hold up a 7' pipe. We hung 3 fresnels on each one plus dimmers. Like I said, I'm no lighting guru so forgive me if I'm stating or missing anything obvious.

BJH

[Raktor]

I would post how to do it, but all my terms are Australian.

Big pipe, clamped to end of electrics bars, lights clamped to big pipe.

I'm sure you can understand that

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by bhallerm

... You mentioned that space is a premium, but could you put up light trees? The bases we have are pretty inconspicuous and hold up a 7' pipe. ...

bhallerm, rochem stated:

Originally Posted by rochem

... Booms are out of the question because they take up valuable space in the wings, and we need all the space we can get for this large of a show.

The terms "tree" and "boom" are synonymous, although in some circles, the term tree is frowned upon: I once had an LD correct me "It's called a boom; dogs p!ss on trees!" Sort of like bulb and lamp.

The most common means of support is a fifty pound boom base, approximately 24" in diameter,
.

Although, if floor space is at a premium, a four inch floor flange
may be lagged into the the stage deck, with the top of the boom tied off to the grid .
It is recommended that any boom over 12' tall, or one with many fixtures at the top, be tied off regardless of the base used.

Originally Posted by rochem

... I have just started building a couple floor mounts from the thread this summer for the shins, but I am going to have to rig some sort of ladder mechanism for everything else. ...

Upon closer inspection of the original post, if one has room for a shin fixture, one has room for a boom, unless the shin is to be a rover, easily able to be removed and repositioned. The "airspace rights" of a shinkicker is the same as for a boom, unless one has some sort of odd cantilever scenic piece.

[Sayen]

Originally Posted by derekleffew

The terms "tree" and "boom" are synonymous, although in some circles, the term tree is frowned upon: I once had an LD correct me "It's called a boom; dogs p!ss on trees!" Sort of like bulb and lamp.

This has always bothered me, since boom can then mean the trees, or a box boom on the sides of the space. I prefer tree since it is a more specific designation, but I know that's not standard.

[bhallerm]

...and this is why I joined this forum. We have those exact bases, but the ones we use most are 50 lb. flat ones. They are only about an inch or two thick and dang near blend in to the stage when there is no pole or lights on it.

BJH

[rochem]

Originally Posted by derekleffew

The terms "tree" and "boom" are synonymous, although in some circles, the term tree is frowned upon: I once had an LD correct me "It's called a boom; dogs p!ss on trees!" Sort of like bulb and lamp.

I generally refer to anything floor-mounted as a boom, and anything hanging from above as a ladder. In my theatre, the box booms are generally called trees since they only go to about 8 feet above our stage level (an almost perfectly flat angle). I've generally only heard "tree" used when referring to a fixed position, such as box booms or a Portal Boom on the inside of the proscenium.

Originally Posted by derekleffew

Upon closer inspection of the original post, if one has room for a shin fixture, one has room for a boom, unless the shin is to be a rover, easily able to be removed and repositioned. The "airspace rights" of a shinkicker is the same as for a boom, unless one has some sort of odd cantilever scenic piece.

Having booms (floor-mounted) would be fine for 95% of the show, but there's some large set pieces which have to come on and off. In theory, if we were able to easily move the boom out of the way for a scene change then move it back, this would be best. However, booms are by necessity very heavy, and it would be more trouble than its worth. We could get booms with casters, but I would think that it would be very hard to get your focus back exactly how it was before, since the wheels can move around. As the shins will be pretty light, we will have large white taped boxes on the deck where they go, and just remove them quickly before they need to be gone, then replace them.

Originally Posted by derekleffew

Edit: Slightly controversial hi-jack. Make sure to safety your fixtures to the permanent structure, not to the hanging device. The controversy comes when discussing whether it's acceptable to safety all the fixtures together, or must each be "home run" to the fixed mounting position?

I don't know what the rated strength of a safety cable is, but they are at least strong enough to hold a ~100 lb moving light if it were to fall, correct? So in theory, it should also easily support at least 5 Source Fours, at ~16 lbs each. I dont want to hijack this thread, but it might make a good poll.