Work and House lights

[renegadeblack]

I am having some similar issues as tech1000 is having, the drama and band teacher turn on our stage lights and I'm assuming that the folks tech1000 are dealing with actually turn off the lights when done, but at my school they don't.

I have plans already for giving them control of lights that is appropriate for them, but I have a problem with the fact that when our dimmer system is out of commission, there are absolutely no lights in the house. It's pitch friggin black.

We have a Colortran Innovator 48/96 board with an i Series 96 rack. It has support for I believe two universes. I am wondering what would happen if I were to get another smaller dimmer system, possibly even a few portables, and plug that into another universe and use just that for just house and work lights. If I were to do that, I could give them access to just that dimmer system, and when the main system is being cleaned or something of the sort, there are still house lights.

I'm thinking just some generic sort of dimmer, I'm not sure what type yet, then run DMX for it to our booth, then for the feed that's coming from the booth, plug it into our Leviton 1000 series that should be waiting for me at school after vacation. From there, plug it into the smaller dimmer system. I'm thinking two Leviton ND 4600's as we have about 6 different channels for house lights and 1 for work. As far as addressing goes, would it be that I set one at 97 and the other at 101? Or would it be completely different setting them on different universes?

No I don't intend to do this myself, just wondering what would be the most cost effective method.

[icewolf08]

The real question is why? How often are you dimmers off? It isn't like you are cleaning them every day, generally one only needs to clean the filters every 400-ish operational hours (depending on how dusty the environment is). If you have lots of down time on your dimming system then it would seem like you have bigger issues. Also, why can't you do your routine maintenance when the space is not in use?

Also you have to consider that your house lights and work lights are probably hardwired into the dimmer racks and probably require a significant amount of power to operate. Putting in portable dimmers for this is probably not a viable option, you would probably need some other dimmer rack. Ultimately this is probably a very costly operation that is very far from anything that could be DIY. This probably falls under the category of renovations which would probably require permission from the district, a bid process, and all that jazz.

[iLightTheStage]

If you are on a separate universe then you don't need to start at 97, you can start at 1 again. However, if you are using two boards to control one dimmer rack, you need to make a way of switching between the boards, because both can't communicate to the rack at the same time. So you either need to physically swap dmx cables, or build a switch (I don't know of a cheap dmx switcher off-hand).

You dont' really need to go into another universe for it because you still have dmx addresses 97-512 available on universe 1, but it is all about what makes things easier and more sense for you.

[waynehoskins]

Yeah, you shouldn't have to do that sort of thing.

Do you have any sort of architectural system?

Back in college the houselights and stage works in our mainstage (used as performance space, rehearsal space, load-in space, and classroom) stayed on pretty much all day, and in the evenings for rehearsals too. no problems there .. but that was 6 scoops and then the houselights.

To solve the pitch-blackness, a ghostlight may be worth looking into. Keeps people from tripping when they're walking from the door to the architectural panel (that you should have) to turn the lights on.

[renegadeblack]

Originally Posted by icewolf08

The real question is why? How often are you dimmers off? It isn't like you are cleaning them every day, generally one only needs to clean the filters every 400-ish operational hours (depending on how dusty the environment is). If you have lots of down time on your dimming system then it would seem like you have bigger issues. Also, why can't you do your routine maintenance when the space is not in use?

Also you have to consider that your house lights and work lights are probably hardwired into the dimmer racks and probably require a significant amount of power to operate. Putting in portable dimmers for this is probably not a viable option, you would probably need some other dimmer rack. Ultimately this is probably a very costly operation that is very far from anything that could be DIY. This probably falls under the category of renovations which would probably require permission from the district, a bid process, and all that jazz.

I don't like having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. There are absolutely no lights in there that aren't controlled by the rack.

As for a switch, I don't believe that I would need one because the Leviton 1000 series has an in and an out. You put an input from your main console, and then there's an output that actually goes to the rack. It's pretty cool, if this thing sees that all of a sudden, there are channels that are up and it looses signal from the board, it will either hold the scene or go to an emergency scene.

Also, is there a DMX out from the i96 rack?

[renegadeblack]

Originally Posted by waynehoskins

Yeah, you shouldn't have to do that sort of thing.

Do you have any sort of architectural system?

Back in college the houselights and stage works in our mainstage (used as performance space, rehearsal space, load-in space, and classroom) stayed on pretty much all day, and in the evenings for rehearsals too. no problems there .. but that was 6 scoops and then the houselights.

To solve the pitch-blackness, a ghostlight may be worth looking into. Keeps people from tripping when they're walking from the door to the architectural panel (that you should have) to turn the lights on.

We have entry buttons by all the doors that turn on lights on the rack that go through a remembrance board that is smashed to bits (scenery).

We have no architectural system whatsoever, all we have is the rack. I like being able to control the lights from the board, I don't think that we would be able to do that with an architectural system though.

[waynehoskins]

A Unison system (ETC's architectural system) will integrate with your main system infrastructure, so you have pushbuttons at some entry doors that turn on dimmers that you can also drive from the board. Your Remembrance system that has been smashed to bits is an equivalent, I believe. I'm tempted to say "This is why we can't have nice things".

As to all the eggs in one basket, in some applications the houselights are in a different, smaller rack than the stage lights, but usually this is a Unison rack or a shorty Sensor rack. Often they're in the same rack. It's not a big deal, because how often do you have to down the rack? If your feeder goes out, it'll go out to a second rack as well.

[renegadeblack]

Originally Posted by waynehoskins

A Unison system (ETC's architectural system) will integrate with your main system infrastructure, so you have pushbuttons at some entry doors that turn on dimmers that you can also drive from the board. Your Remembrance system that has been smashed to bits is an equivalent, I believe. I'm tempted to say "This is why we can't have nice things".

As to all the eggs in one basket, in some applications the houselights are in a different, smaller rack than the stage lights, but usually this is a Unison rack or a shorty Sensor rack. Often they're in the same rack. It's not a big deal, because how often do you have to down the rack? If your feeder goes out, it'll go out to a second rack as well.

The Remembrance system it was understandable (from what I've heard) as to why it happened. A piece of scenery on it's way out the door to the work room hit the Remembrance panel on it's way out which is right next to the door, the scenery went runaway and hit it. Everyone who I've spoken to has said that it's in a rather stupid location, but I couldn't say for sure.

I was looking at the Unison system that you mentioned. Looks interesting.

In terms of it going down, I'm assuming that you mean mains by feeder. The lights are on their own feed, I would put this other system on an entirely diffrerent line. Also, we are off the grid, we have a tri-generation system, some of our lights are on backup battery, I was thinking that this would also enable us to run house and work lights off the backup entirely, though I'm again not sure. I'll suggest a Unison system though, budget season is coming up.

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by renegadeblack

I don't like having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. There are absolutely no lights in there that aren't controlled by the rack.

As for a switch, I don't believe that I would need one because the Leviton 1000 series has an in and an out. You put an input from your main console, and then there's an output that actually goes to the rack. It's pretty cool, if this thing sees that all of a sudden, there are channels that are up and it looses signal from the board, it will either hold the scene or go to an emergency scene.

Originally Posted by renegadeblack

We have entry buttons by all the doors that turn on lights on the rack that go through a remembrance board that is smashed to bits (scenery).

We have no architectural system whatsoever, all we have is the rack. I like being able to control the lights from the board, I don't think that we would be able to do that with an architectural system though.

So you do have an architectural system, what you describe is what most architectural do. Most systems allow you to control dimmers in your racks from button or fader stations as well as the console. waynehoskins describes how ETC's system works, but there are many systems that do this:

Originally Posted by waynehoskins

A Unison system (ETC's architectural system) will integrate with your main system infrastructure, so you have pushbuttons at some entry doors that turn on dimmers that you can also drive from the board. Your Remembrance system that has been smashed to bits is an equivalent, I believe. I'm tempted to say "This is why we can't have nice things".

As to all the eggs in one basket, in some applications the houselights are in a different, smaller rack than the stage lights, but usually this is a Unison rack or a shorty Sensor rack. Often they're in the same rack. It's not a big deal, because how often do you have to down the rack? If your feeder goes out, it'll go out to a second rack as well.

Other than that I stand by what I said before. You are talking about a major electrical renovation, not really just an install of a few dimmer packs. I would think that it is worth looking into having your current system repaired before you replace it.

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by renegadeblack

In terms of it going down, I'm assuming that you mean mains by feeder. The lights are on their own feed, I would put this other system on an entirely diffrerent line. Also, we are off the grid, we have a tri-generation system, some of our lights are on backup battery, I was thinking that this would also enable us to run house and work lights off the backup entirely, though I'm again not sure. I'll suggest a Unison system though, budget season is coming up.

We are talking about down time, not power failure or other failure. You mentioned that if you take the rack offline you don't have lights. The question is why you take the rack offline. Regular maintenance should be able to be done when the space is not in use.

As for backup power, only emergency lighting should be connected to backup power. You will have to talk to your local fire marshal or some other local AHJ for the rules on that.