Tie-in at a venue

[reggie98]

When a touring show pulls into a theatre, stadium, etc., who is responsible for tying-in the shows lighting and sound equipment to the location's bull switch, panel, etc? House electician or tour electrician or other (qualified and trained personnel)? Must the tour typically obtain an electrical permit and hire a licensed electrician (for the tie-in)?
Were running into a B.S. storm at a town recreation center that were considering renting for a talent show. They want an Engineering proposal from us to be reviewed and approved, a permit and local electrician to hired for the tie-in whos work will be supervised by an electrician from the school district.
All of this makes me want to find a more friendly location for the show.

[icewolf08]

First off, chances are any answers we give you won't change what you are being asked for. Secondly, every venue is different. some require you to hire one of the venue's people to do a tie-in, some require you to have a (locally) licensed electrician do the tie in, and some will just let you do it yourself. I personally have not heard of anyone asking for an engineering proposal, but I suppose some people might.

If you truly feel like it is too much hassle to rent the venue then don't. It is just the venue trying to protect itself from any liability, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[DaveySimps]

Power tie ins vary drastically by venue. I have been to many venues where they brought in an electrician (usually a member of IBEW) just to tie in our distro. I have also been to venues whose localities require them to have permits pulled to do so. However, at my place, I do all of the tie ins. For the audio company I freelance for, we always require the group hiring us (usually a venue or producer) to cover any cost associated with having to pay for permits and electricians if the venue requires it. They are also responsible for actually obtaining the permits as well. Most riders from tours require that these items be covered and arranged for by the purchaser.

Sounds like you are running into a situation where they just do not understand what it takes to produce a show. This can be common in community / educational environments that do not do many large scale shows. I cannot I say I fault them for being overly cautious, since they seem to have no idea what it takes to produce and event technically speaking. They are just doing what they think is safe, even though it does create a layer of B.S..

~Dave

[Esoteric]

Yeah, it varies greatly. We used to send a set of drawings ahead just in case with the technical rider.

Some cities the tour guys could tie in, some it was the venue electrician, some it was a local licensed electrician, some even made us hire a member of the local to do it (even though everyone on the tour was an IATSE member)!

But whatever the venue says, you have to do it. So just buckle down and get it done. Or get a new venue.

Mike

[len]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

But whatever the venue says, you have to do it. So just buckle down and get it done. Or get a new venue.

Mike

Ditto. They want their personnel for 2 reasons (among others):

They know their guy will do it correctly and it's taking care of their employees, etc.

[ScottH]

I think by "Engineering Proposal" they are looking for and idea of what you will be bringing into their space. Power requirements, rigging (if any), scenery. Anything that your production brings with you that could have any effect on the building. I would say write out a basic plan listing how much power you will use, etc. and do a basic drawing of power runs, stage setup etc. Play ball with them as much as possible on the easy stuff. If you are accommodating to them, they might be just as accommodating to you and overlook the permit and electrician. If not, ask them if they have someone in mind that will do it at a reasonable price....or find another venue.

[reggie98]

I'd be happy to have the school district electrician perform the tie-in. I asked him if he would do that (I even offered to supply the correct breaker for his panel). He declined. He just wants to watch. I'd prefer to find a more hospitable location, which has fewer drawbacks than this one. Even if we pull up will a tow behine generator, they still want a detailed proposal, permit, licenced electrician, etc.

Originally Posted by len

Ditto. They want their personnel for 2 reasons (among others):

They know their guy will do it correctly and it's taking care of their employees, etc.

[BillESC]

Hi Len,

Yep, most facilities are different. Working in a "town owned" venue is out the worst since everyone wants to cover their a**es.

I can remember some places we went to where there would be a licensed electrician provided and he was scared to lie-in live so I'd do it. Roseland Dance City in NY was one of those places. The only place to tie-in was the hotel's main buss panel. Copper two by fours carrying 4000 apiece. The buss bars were tapped so I was able to bolt my four ought on with half inch bolts.

[mrb]

sounds like a generator rental will cost less than having engineering, permits, and a licensed electrician.

I do see where they are coming from though. If they have a 'company switch' you should be able to tie your tails in and be done with it. Problem is, alot of venues such as these community rec centers etc, dont have a company switch, and the only place to tie in is in a panelboard or in the switchgear. To do this safely, often requires engineering and a licensed electrician performing the work. I wouldnt want to be the one who dropped a wrench and blew up a $15,000 breaker.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, if I have to tie into a panelboard or switchgear I always let my licensed journeyman do it. It is worth the extra cost (even with my $2mil liability policy) for me. I can tie into a disconnect or a circuit breaker panel with my eyes closed, but that stuff I leave to the pros and that is after five years on the road. I know enough to know when I am in over my head.

Mike