New High School Install

[cw4u]

I've been tasked with designing a system for a local high school that is having a gymnasium with a stage on one end. Which in my opinion, it really cheap, but theatrics are not looked upon that much anymore, and FEMA is really adamant on replacing exact square footage.

So, onto my question.

I've worked up the following for the system:

ETC 24+ Install Rack
-22 D20s
-2 R20s

Three raceways with 8 stage pin outlets (two outlets per circuit) The raceways will house all ETC PARnels.

Front throw truss with ten individual circuits all connected to ETC S4s (10).

Two side horizontal trusses will have four circuits on each side. 4...maybe 8 ETC Pars on each side.

DMX inputs will be on all trusses and on stage. Control via ETC Element??? Avo Pearl 2004, or Express 24/48.

The stage (rough estimate) is 40' wide and 30' in depth.

The problem that bothers me the most is that it won't be very expandable considering the rack will be full. Of course, I could always install some more dimmers off stage, but that's not a good solution.

It's an extremely tight budget, and right now, all I have promised is electrical wiring and conduit to support any future expandability. Building is to be completed in May 2010, so I've got some time.

I'm a big fan of ETC stuff, and in every install I've worked in, I've used either Unison or Sensor+ racks. So, I'm partial toward ETC. But I know they make good stuff. My reason for using all ETC luminaries is so that only one bulb will have to be bought.

So, what needs to go, what needs to stay? Should I forgo the Sensor rack and getting something cheaper.

Thanks.

[DaveySimps]

You have an unenviable task since you are so tight with gear as it is. ETC makes great stuff, but you may want to price out other dimmers to see if you can get a slightly larger count for the same price. There are other good names out there, just make sure they are DMX compatible.

Depending on their distance from the stage, your par cans might not be the best choice, however, I imagine it was a budget conscious choice. It would be nice to see some Source IV's or Source IV Jr's there.

FYI, they no longer make the Express, however they are touting a new board to be unveiled at USITT. I am looking forward to seeing it while I am there. Although it is a nice board, I have always thought of the AVO as more of a concert board, as opposed to a theatre board. However you do not indicate exactly what the space is used for, so it may work great for your needs.

That is just my $0.02.

~Dave

[mrb]

I may be way off here, but what about wiring your electrics and trusses to socapex inlets at your dimmer location? Use cheaper dimmer packs now, then upgrade to sensor later as budget permits?

[jmabray]

Go with Unison DRd racks with a SmartLink Processor in them. They will be more cost effcient than Sensor. You can also add a couple of playback stations for some basic architectural control for very little money to give them the capability to turn on some lights for rehearsal and the like without the need for having a console up and running.

(You can do this with sensor as well, if needed, but the sensor processor will be more expensive than the Unison one.)

[Sony]

Originally Posted by DaveySimps

FYI, they no longer make the Express, however they are touting a new board to be unveiled at USITT. I am looking forward to seeing it while I am there. ~Dave

I do believe that the board they are unveiling is called the "Element" which is what he mentioned. Not sure on that though, so maybe he is planning on getting that board after it is released...which should be before May 2010.

[fredthe]

A few thoughts...

- Schools rarely have the money to "upgrade" later. Sometimes "something cheap to be upgraded later" ends up having to serve for 20+ years.

- Good that you're planning for DMX to be available everywhere... though most should be outputs. I'd consider running ethernet everywhere, connected back to a switch. Consoles and Dimmers (from the same vendor) talk over ethernet these days, and ETC & Others make nodes to convert to DMX (in or out) when and where needed.

- Consider adding some non-dim circuits to your trusses and raceways. That way the power for LEDs/Movers/scrollers/etc. is already there (since you've got the DMX...)

- You mention "more dimmers off stage." Personally, I think ALL dimmers should be off stage. If you can, put them in a seperate (properly ventalated) room.

- Remember, in a Gymatorium, you need to consider protecting anything in the house from flying basketballs/volyballs/etc.

- You might also look at what Strand has to offer. In the recent high school theater renovation I was involved in they came in lower in cost than ETC, and the school's been quite happy with it. (Well, except for the Outlook architectural control part of it, but I believe Strand is trying to get away from Outlook anyway.)

[Esoteric]

Avoid Strand (but this is just my opinion).

ETC all the way.

You can go Unison, but you lose some of the functionality of the Sensor rack.

Keep in mind you can always buy a bigger rack and fill the extra slots with AFUs.

Ethernet -> DMX is cool, but the nodes are still pretty pricey from what I understand.

Keep in mind you can wire the install (control wiring) with ethernet cable instead of the pricier Belkin stuff.

Always put curtosey circuits in. You do not know how many times I have cursed an installer because I needed to plug in moving lights or projectors and had no non-dimmable power. Of course ETC sells a non-dim rack unit, but two for an entire gym would never do.

I can get you a good price on regular Source4's drop me another PM and I will see what I can do. You need something besides Source4 PARs.

Mike

[cw4u]

I know I'm going to be shot down for even suggesting this, but what about Leviton 12 Channel 1.2kw rack dimmers. I'm going to be using 575w bulbs in all the fixtures, so that would at least allow me to put two lights on a circuit if needed.

I'm talking to the architect...again...to see about them drilling through the second story where the mechanical/electrical room is for the stage and running a sub panel for the lighting only. The panel would be able to support 10 of the above dimmers.

I'll have them drop some power taps from the main power for non dimmed circuits. And, I'll make sure I can get the trusses as close to the stage or as high up as possible. I'm concerned about making sure the stuff doesn't get hit.

Ethernet is already planned to be everywhere in the gym due to how technology is evolving so much. What about running DMX over ethernet with a repeater in there for longer runs just for in wall wiring?

Right now, I need to get the dimmers selected. Didn't get the chance to talk with the electrical engineer today, but am doing that tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help.

[mrb]

those leviton / nsi ones are junk.

get the lex/electrol DX125, 12chx1.5kw/ch. Its around $1800 if i recall.

[Esoteric]

I do not like NSI. Too much trouble for overpriced, cheap gear.

This is just my opinion, but NSI is, to me, on the same level with Elation/AE and is a step below even Leprechaun or Strand, which is a step below ETC.

I have run into a few problems in recent months (thanks Bill!) with NSI dimmers and higher level consoles. I will never spec them out unless clients are trying to cheap out on installs.

Stay with ETC, either the Sensor, Unison, or SmartRacks.

If they will do it I would certainly have a dedicated lighting panel (we always install one).

You can have cages made to protect the trusses, but ideally you would like the trusses at a 45 degree angle to a point 6 feet above the stage floor.

Mike