Adding Color Scrollers

[Aquarius]

Hi all,

The TD at my high school is debating adding some color scrollers to our inventory.We currently have ~25 PAR 64s for down washes, 12 Source Four Junior Zooms, a mix of old Leko 30* and 40* lights (so old that I don't even know the model name)(about 80 of them). In addition, we just ordered 3 days ago 40 Source Four Junior 36*s. We have an ETC Express 24/48 light board.

I have done some preliminary research into color scrollers, and have found some interesting things. What we are considering buying are color scrollers for 12 of the PARs, along with 16 of the Lekos / Source 4 Juniors.

From what I have found so far, it looks like the Apollo Smart Colors are the best value. 12 of the 10-inch ones cost ~$5000, and 16 of the 7.25 inch ones about ~5,000. I figure that once we add in the power supplies, cables, and shipping, it should come out to around ~$13,000.

1) Does anyone have any recommendations for other reliable brands that don't cost an absurd amount?

2) Do my prices seem reasonable? i.e. Am I getting a good deal on these?


Now for some technical questions. Our light board (ETC Express 24/48) has two DMX ports on the back, 1-512 and 513-1024. We plug the board into the theater using the 1-512 port. To plug the scrollers in, I would run the cable into the 513-1024 port, and set the first scroller DMX address to "1". My question, however, is this: We have almost no DMX ports in our theater: 1 in the booth, and I think we have one stage right. To run from the 2nd universe port on our board, I get that I would run a really long cable from the board out onto the catwalks and from there to the electrics. However, how does the DMX work from there? Do I plug it into the 5-pin DMX on the first power supply unit, and then run another DMX cord to the 2nd power supply unit, and so on? We have plenty of 120v power outlets on the catwalks to plug the power supply units into, so that's not a problem.

Is my proposed setup feasible? Any suggestions for improvements?

Thanks for all your help!

[NickJones]

Originally Posted by Aquarius

Do I plug it into the 5-pin DMX on the first power supply unit, and then run another DMX cord to the 2nd power supply unit, and so on?

No, probably not, chances are they have a DMX OUT on them, meaning you plug the output of the desk into the input, then plug a DMX from the output of whatever it is, (be it scroller, dimmer, ect.) Then into the input of the next thing you want to control. This is known as daisy chaining. However, if they don't have a DMX out, then you are going to have to shell out for a DMX Splitter such as this one made by LSC.

Originally Posted by Aquarius

We have plenty of 120v power outlets on the catwalks to plug the power supply units into, so that's not a problem.

Right, important lesson, NEVER plug anything in other than conventionals (standard lights) into a dimming circuit. If it's on your catwalk then chances are its a dimming circuit, plugging a scroller into a dimming circuit will FRY your scrolllers, you are talking about spending a lot of money here, how much would it suck to trash $13,000 of scrollers by plugging them into dimming circuits. MAKE SURE IT'S NOT A DIMMING CIRCUIT! Ask your TD, he/she would be able to tell you. Make sure you get it right.

If it is a non patched dimming circuit, (meaning it runs to the dimmer room where a plug sits there not plugged into the dimmer) then you can run a power cable into your dimming room, (or wherever your patch bay is) and plug the patch that it's on strait into non dimmed mains power. So lets say you have Patch 14 on FOH 1, instead of plugging it into a dimmer, you plug it into a normal power socket in your dimmer room, rather than the dimmer.
Hope this makes sense, if you don't know what you are doing, don't guess, especially with stuff like this! Just ask. We are all here to help.

Hope I helped
Nick

[Aquarius]

Originally Posted by NickJones

No, probably not, chances are they have a DMX OUT on them, meaning you plug the output of the desk into the input, then plug a DMX from the output of whatever it is, (be it scroller, dimmer, ect.) Then into the input of the next thing you want to control. This is known as daisy chaining. However, if they don't have a DMX out, then you are going to have to shell out for a DMX Splitter such as this one made by LSC.

That's what I meant, running a cord from the 1st power supply to the 2nd, from the 2nd to the 3rd, etc.

Right, important lesson, NEVER plug anything in other than conventionals (standard lights) into a dimming circuit. If it's on your catwalk then chances are its a dimming circuit, plugging a scroller into a dimming circuit will FRY your scrolllers, you are talking about spending a lot of money here, how much would it suck to trash $13,000 of scrollers by plugging them into dimming circuits. MAKE SURE IT'S NOT A DIMMING CIRCUIT! Ask your TD, he/she would be able to tell you. Make sure you get it right.

If it is a non patched dimming circuit, (meaning it runs to the dimmer room where a plug sits there not plugged into the dimmer) then you can run a power cable into your dimming room, (or wherever your patch bay is) and plug the patch that it's on strait into non dimmed mains power. So lets say you have Patch 14 on FOH 1, instead of plugging it into a dimmer, you plug it into a normal power socket in your dimmer room, rather than the dimmer.
Hope this makes sense, if you don't know what you are doing, don't guess, especially with stuff like this! Just ask. We are all here to help.

Hope I helped
Nick

What I meant by the 120v outlets is that they are Edison sockets, like the kind that are in the walls of your house. I am 99.9% sure that they are in no way connected to any dimmer system, and my TD is probably 100% sure. I should be fine plugging the power supplies into these, correct?

[express]

Hey, to answer your first question, feet scriplers from appolo, but you don't have to get he most expensive. Remember that the colors that you put into scrollers don't have to be final. Put in gels that you need forthe show that you are working on, then for a later show just put in new gels.

Hope this helps,
Express

[express]

I just relized that I forgot that I only answer one question. In our theater we have a DMX cable run from the booth to the catwalk with a 120 volt power cable. At the DMX cord we connect the scoller "brain". From there we daisychain all of the scoller from the DMX and out ports on all of the scollers. And because they all have address, we can conntr each one by itself. But hen we create a submaster that controls all of the scrollers as a single unit.

[Esoteric]

Chroma-Q.

Mike

[gafftaper]

Do you have an Express 125 or an Express 250? (Yes it can output anywhere in the range of channels 1-1024 but it's only capable of operating either 125 or 250 at the same time)

How many dimmers are you using off of your Express?

Do you have any other DMX gear you use?
If yes how many channels do the other DMX toys eat up?

You might want to think about upgrading to an ETC Element it'll make operating those scrollers much easier and give you a lot more control channels. It's new and not shipping yet. I haven't heard a price yet... specualtion is around $4k.

Also don't underestimate the cost of cables and power supplies. They are EXPENSIVE. Also don't forget terminators at the ends of those runs.

[Aquarius]

Originally Posted by gafftaper

Do you have an Express 125 or an Express 250? (Yes it can output anywhere in the range of channels 1-1024 but it's only capable of operating either 125 or 250 at the same time)

Neither. We are using an Express 24/48 (96 channels).

How many dimmers are you using off of your Express?

Right now we have 192 dimmers on the board. I don't know if it can be set at a higher number than that. However, we never use a great chunk of our dimmers. There are a lot that are in the floor pockets that are never used except for dance shows, and there are ~20 on the wall above the booth (?).

Do you have any other DMX gear you use?
If yes how many channels do the other DMX toys eat up?

No other DMX stuff. We have some fog machines that are DMX capable, but we've never figured out how to hook them up to the board.

You might want to think about upgrading to an ETC Element it'll make operating those scrollers much easier and give you a lot more control channels. It's new and not shipping yet. I haven't heard a price yet... specualtion is around $4k.

Eh.... I would love to, but I don't know if our TD will spring for it. Our current desk is 13 years old, however.

Also don't underestimate the cost of cables and power supplies. They are EXPENSIVE. Also don't forget terminators at the ends of those runs.

You think ~$5000 will be enough to cover it?

[CBR372]

Heres how it goes. Control console- DMX 5-Pin to the Color Scroll Power Supply, then from there there is a DMX out for 4-Pin and then daisy chain that line with as many scrollers as that single PSU will carry. Then if you have other power supplies you said a 5-pin from the first power supply to the next one. and continued....

96 channels is not alot, if you plan on using all the scroller set to the same color, then address them all to the same channel, like 95 so that it is far away from your conventionals...

If you have 96 channels I don't know how many you actually have unlocked on the board...

[Aquarius]

Originally Posted by CBR372

Heres how it goes. Control console- DMX 5-Pin to the Color Scroll Power Supply, then from there there is a DMX out for 4-Pin and then daisy chain that line with as many scrollers as that single PSU will carry. Then if you have other power supplies you said a 5-pin from the first power supply to the next one. and continued....

Thanks for the concise explanation.

96 channels is not alot, if you plan on using all the scroller set to the same color, then address them all to the same channel, like 95 so that it is far away from your conventionals...

Something like that.

If you have 96 channels I don't know how many you actually have unlocked on the board...

The board can only do 96 channels.



Speaking of power supplies, does anyone know how much energy one Apollo Smart Color 10" takes? Are there power supplies out there that can handle 4 or even 8 scrollers?

Here's what I was hoping to do (seen from overhead)(Top is upstage)

__parcan__parcan_______parcan__parcan___Powersuppl y
|
__parcan__parcan_______parcan__parcan___Powersuppl y
|
__parcan__parcan_______parcan__parcan___Powersuppl y
|
|
S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J___Power
|
S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J___Power
|
S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J____S4J___Power
|
|
booth____________________|



Is this feasible?