ETC express 250 Should i buy it or not?

[sublime629]

i recently saw an ad on craigslist for a ETC express 250 console for $3500

im a student at full sail and plan to go into concert lighting and i was thinking about investing in this console i just want to make sure its a good one that i can grow into.

so what do you guys think? has any one had experience with this board?
anything i need to look out for? is it a good deal?

any information helps me to decide so let me know


thanks!

[xander]

Express is a great board. If you were working in a small theater with only a preset board, that would be a great investment. However, for concert lighting, you will never run into an Express, and if you do, you will wish you hadn't. There is very small need for any one individual to own their own board, unless you have piles of money laying around. The upkeep/repair of a board is not cheap seeing how everything is proprietary (at least in your case, the newer boards are using more standard PC hardware) and you have to ship back to the manufacturer to do anything.

My $.02
-Tim

[gafftaper]

Once they become available this summer ETC Elements are expected to have a list about the same price as the old Express price range... mid $3k to mid $4k. Save your money for the same price or just a little more you should be able to get an Element.

If your goal is concert lighting then you should really only be looking at Whole Hog's or GrandMA's or perhaps a PC based version of them to get you started.

This brings up the question of do you really need to purchase your own console. Which is an entirely different question. Are you wanting to start your own lighting company?

[Footer]

If you have 3500 to burn, buy a HogPC programing wing, a MA PC node, or a Chamsys Wing. I would not buy an express right now, especially with what you want to do with it.

[awhaley]

I have to agree with Tim. After 4 years in the concert business, there wasn't a single job where I could have made any more money if I'd brought my own Express along... and there were very few times when I would have made a penny off a better console. If you just own the console... the rest of the lighting rig has to come from somewhere, and it will usually be cheaper for the promoter to rent the console with the rest of the rig (AND give them a console that the touring LD or PM won't snicker at... which is a concern in concert lighting.) than it will be for the promoter to pay YOU a fair price for just the console and still have to pay the rental shop for the rest of the rig. I've run a couple of shows off my laptop using magicQ, but it didn't make me a dollar - I just preferred it to whatever the rental company had brought along for the particular task I had to get done that day.

The express is NOT designed for the demands of live concert production - it gives you lots of sliders, which makes it adequate for running a small conventional rig, but it's a bare basics board. The moving light controls, while there, are limiting when you need to program fast. I don't even recommend the Express for small theatre installs any more, but a lot of people do like them for that.

Any job that's going to hire you as a programmer is going to have a console to offer. If you want to use your own console, it needs to be a big step UP from what the tour or festival rental company has to offer, and the express is the bottom of the line. It's a solid bottom of the line console that has some uses, but it's still not a serious concert lighting console. If you're serious about getting your own control gear, I'd look into either MagicQ, or one of the Hog or GrandMA on PC solutions. You could purchase an Enttec Pro dongle for less than $200 and have MagicQ working on your laptop. (I don't recommend the Enttec Open dongle, which is much cheaper, for use with MagicQ. There are visible stutters, particularly when working with moving lights. But the pro dongle works fine and the mini-wing runs around $1500.. so still cheaper than you can purchase that Express... and then you'll be using a full featured top of the line moving light console instead of a two-generations-ago theatrical console that's really designed for theatres just stepping up from a two-scene preset to a memory board. The full Wing for the MagicQ PC software runs around 3500 actually... so this would also be in your price range and give you a LOT more console... if you've already got a PC you can use... The MagicQ wings may give you dmx outs(it's been a while since I looked into them), negating the need for the pro dongle, but it's a handy gizmo to have around in my experience anyway... I haven't priced control surfaces for the GrandMA or Hog PC versions, but they exist, and you should look into them as well before deciding what you want to own.

What equipment are you learning on at Full Sail? And have you talked to your instructors about the deal on the express, and asked them what THEY'D recommend you invest that money into to help your career? I'd personally get a pro dongle, a mini wing, and two of my own headsets - one featherlight for theatre and one double-muff for concerts. But opinions may vary...

Art Whaley
Art Whaley Design

[sublime629]

thanks for all the help guys. im looking into the magicQ pro dongle my only problem is that im running a mac book pro and not a PC.

at full sail ive taken the basic lighting class and we learned on the etc express 24/48 and i found it very very simple to program and use unlike my $200 behringer board which to say the least sucks. ive talked with one teacher about it and she said the price was decent but couldnt see me using it and making back all the money i put into it.

is there a good website to find these consoles and software you are talking about?

[Footer]

Originally Posted by sublime629

im running a mac book pro and not a PC.

Magic Q will run on Mac, PC, and Linux. I have my install running on linux, it works great.

Originally Posted by sublime629

is there a good website to find these consoles and software you are talking about?

Your at it.

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by sublime629

thanks for all the help guys. im looking into the magicQ pro dongle my only problem is that im running a mac book pro and not a PC.
...
is there a good website to find these consoles and software you are talking about?

See this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/l...ng-magicq.html. ChamSys MagicQ for software (for all platforms). ChamSys |net for MagicQ - Home is an online support forum. We recommend the Enttec DMX USB Pro interface, for 151 USD. The lesser-priced 60 USD Open DMX USB Interface does not support Mac and users have reported proplems with the stability of its DMX output (as Art said above).

Originally Posted by awhaley

I have to agree with Tim. After 4 years in the concert business, there wasn't a single job where I could have made any more money if I'd brought my own Express along... and there were very few times when I would have made a penny off a better console. ... I've run a couple of shows off my laptop using magicQ, but it didn't make me a dollar - I just preferred it to whatever the rental company had brought along for the particular task I had to get done that day. ...

Very few top Programmer/Designers own their own consoles (although one full-size grandMA owner jokes that it makes more money than his wife does), for all of the reasons Art mentioned. But a $150 investment for the educational experience would certainly be worth it. If you're planning on going into concert lighting, a great start is to work for bands in bars and clubs, where your PC and dongle and wing may often be a better console than whatever the house has. You won't be able to charge a rental fee for it, but if it makes you look better as a designer, and more importantly makes the show look better, why not?

Another huge investment for a student looking to enter concert lighting would be a visualizer. I'd make this a prority over any hardware or software that actually controls lights (other than the $150 Enttec/MagicQ solution discussed above).

[doctrjohn]

Originally Posted by sublime629

thanks for all the help guys. im looking into the magicQ pro dongle my only problem is that im running a mac book pro and not a PC.

I believe MagicQ is cross platform (I have not had a chance to look at it/play with it, but it is on my list). If, however, it is not, I strongly suggest looking at Jands Vista for a cross platform control solution. Not free, but very reasonably priced.

Best,
John