Conventional Fixtures - Source Four vs. Source Four Junior

[Jinglish]

It looks like my high school's theater department is finally willing to replace at least a few of our dozen ancient Altman 360's with some Source Fours. I'm debating whether I should get the standard Source Four or the Junior model, though.

I've done some searching on this forum, and it's (not surprisingly) universally agreed that the standard model is far superior to the Junior. However, some of the drawbacks don't apply as much in my case; for example, I use 575 W lamps in my current ellipsoidals anyway, and my throw from my off-stage lighting bars is within forty feet anyway. Aolso, one of my main gripe about the Altmans is that their lenses have terrible chromatic aberration, since I always get a fuzzy blue/green ring around the edge of my focused beam. Junior lenses aren't supposed to be as good as the standard lenses, but are they still a significant improvement over the Altmans?

To summarize: should I just get some Juniors or splurge and get the standard fixtures?

[Footer]

S4's have halos as well. Both the Jr's and full sized. If you have read the last posts about this subject, that should lean you one way or another. There is nothing wrong with the Jr's, but if you can spend the extra cash, it is highly advised.

[express]

At least half of all our lights are S4 JR Zoom. We think that the S4s are to big and heavy, we dont have any problems with our S4 JR ZOOMs

[avkid]

Originally Posted by express

We think that the S4s are to big and heavy, we dont have any problems with our S4 JR ZOOMs

Source 4 is too heavy?
I find them much easier to manage than Shakespeares and several older ERS units.

[soundlight]

Here's my opinion:

If you're simply replacing the lights and getting a set number of fixtures to replace them, and you are deciding how much money to spend on those fixtures, get the Source Fours.

However, if you would actually be able to get quite a few more Source Four Jrs than regular Source Fours, go for the Jrs. I've worked with both, and while the regular units are great, and I love the barrel rotation, full-size iris and gobo slots, and ability to lamp up to 750, the Jrs are great little units.

Other things to take in to consideration - would you possibly adding something like a Rosco I-Cue to any of the units? If so, get regular S4s - at least as many as you might by I-Cues for.

[jmabray]

At forty feet away, you might want to go with the full size. I say this because the jr's aren't available with a 19 or 14 degree lens which is what you should be looking at with that kind of throw distance. What measurement of altmans are you using right now? 6x22?

[thatactorguy]

Everyone so far has made some excellent points. We have 20 S4 jr (26 deg), four S4 ParNels, and a dozen or so coffee cans. Our budget is very limited, and the juniors work very well for us, with average throw being about 25-30'. Our stage is 36'w x 24'd, with a height of 14' 8" from floor to grid, and the juniors cover this area quite well.

I think one of your biggest factors to consider is number of instruments. How many is the school willing to buy? At $190/ea, $1000 will buy you five Juniors with some change left for spare lamps, gel sheets, whatever.

Do you ever rent the space? As was mentioned in some of the other threads, S4 jr uses gobo size "M", while S4 uses "A", and touring companies may be more likely to have "A". In that regard, it may not hurt to have a couple of S4 for that situation, but I really hate to think that that's all a S4 would get used for Then again, as was also mentioned, with enough notice, "M" size can be ordered with nary a problem...

Just thinking out loud, but I think the juniors would work fine for your purposes...

[JChenault]

I have a mix of Source 4's and Source 4 Jr Zooms in my theatre. Aside from cost - the major differences I see are:

The zoom feature is nice on the Jr. It gives you a bit more flexibility without having to change lenses. On the other hand, they are not as bright as a regular Source 4.

I actually have a greater range of beam spreads ( swapping out lenses) on the standard Source 4's.

The shutters on the Jr are not as easy to use. Since the gate is smaller a small movement of the shutter makes a larger change in the light output. The shutter feels flimsier on the Jr than the standard Source 4. You can't get as great an angle on adjacent shutters.

I really miss not having the ability to rotate the barrel on the Jr.

My distributor does not stock as many M size gobos, so they are harder to get.

The Jr is harder to take apart to clean.

Hope this helps you make up your mind.

[RTDesigns]

Do yourself a favor, get away from the S4 stuff and stick with the Altmans.....more bang for the buck.....and there's still a lot more of these out there than the S4 stuff. I do not like the S4 shutters, very touchy and flimsy. I've lit many a show with a range of 360Q's (6x9, 12, 22) and have never had any issues with Altman equipment. But, this is just my opinion.....there are lots of designers out there that love the S4 stuff.

[NickJones]

Altman 360s Vs ETC S4, this comes up a lot....
I'm a Selecon fan, must admit, I love there fixtures and the ability to make my own gobos.
BUT.
As you are in a HS you have a HS budget. So why not get a few S4s, one or two Selecon Pacifics for you custom gobos and the rest in S4 Juniors. Best of both (all 3) worlds.
Nick