lamp question

[moojoe]

i feel kind of stupid for asking this, but what is the difference between a HX601 and a HX603 lamp? im guessing one is higher output and the other is longer life, but which is which?

[DJErik07]

I found some information at bublconnection.com. Here are the links to the pages:

HX603:
http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewIt...X603/item.html

HX601:
http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewIt...2FLL/item.html

[TechnicalDirector3-W]

The differences between the two lamps are basically the Lumans, but also the color temp and the filament type. THe 601 has 12800 lumans and the 603 has 1200 lumans.

[ship]

It would seem Bulbconnection's notes on the Ushio lamp are different than mine or that of my on-line connection with Ushio technical specs. Ushio secifies this lamp as of tonight as up to date info if accurate. The actual color temperature is 3,200°K Very much not unusual for the specifications of a lamp to change year to year and month to month thus my own pain in the rear in tracking them. I think this color temperature is incorrect.

Hmm, thanks for the Thorn/GE new part number to replace the discontinued #37404 for the same description. Thought this lamp was discontinued given that last time I bought it, it was a 120v lamp not a 115v lamp. Still it's a new part number added to my notes. In additng to bulb connection's notes it's LCL of 2.3/8".


So what's best, FLK/LL (HX-601) GE#38730
FLK/LL (JCV115v-575wCM) Ushio #1002196
HX-603 Thorn/GE #36915

By the way, beyond comparing simple lamp secs, it is very not much a stupid question much less it is even a good challenge for me as someone that does this type of thing for a living.

First consider cost effectiveness in laying out a chart of all the information given or known about these lamps. I won't consider the cost but it does play a factor in getting the best lamp you can afford given the situation warrents getting the best verses something that is more cost effective otherwise.

Given all lamps are long life, we verify that at that voltage all at 115v are 1,500 hours in life.

Second we take a quick look at the filament type just for shock resistance and ruggedness.

Both brands of FLK/LL which is not a actual ANSI code lamp list a cc-8 filament. The last listing for a HX-603 lists as cc-13D filament which is much more heavy duty but also possibly larger in size.

Given it's the same size and type of filament as the last 120v incarnation of this also non-ANSI lamp, we can assume that the HX-603 will have a more rugged filament to things like shock or line voltalge spikes. On the other hand, and only by a guess, the cc-8 filament will probably be a better lamp for projecting graphics from due to it's expected smaller size.

Next we balance color temperature and luminous output with each other.

The Thorn/GE owned HX-603 lists 3,050°K but does not list it's 12,000 Lumen output by way of this website.

The GE HX-601 / FLK/LL 3,050°K and 12,800 Lumens

The Ushio lamp is the same by specifications as the GE lamp except it has a 3,200°K color temperature if you trust the specs. I'm not sure If I would given it's a long life lamp having the same listed color temperature as the high output FLK lamp. Normally when you exchange life for output, the color temperature also drops in a way similar to that reflected in the GE lamp. I would say both are the same in output and specs and the Ushio on-line specs have a typo as not unusual amongst any vendor.

So given that it's expected to be just a vendor type of typo and the GE and Ushio are basically the same lamp we can see their similar prices reflected by this supplier's own costs for the lamp. Otherwise if this Ushio lamp has been improved by way of color temperature vastly above what is otherwise known similar lamps can, than the Ushio lamp would be a much better choice. Given it's not, it should be the same lamp.

Also we see by the specifications that the HX-603 is a really heavy duty lamp. Has the same filament for all intensive purposes as a PAR 64 or Fresnel, though a less output than the other two.

Is it worth the extra money? Perhaps very much so for such a thing as a shin buster or over the stage electric if the fixture cap might be hit by something coming in. The savings in lamps not blowing up arbitrailary alone would be worth the extra cost. I play tested the origional 120v version of this lamp and it was a darned good lamp.

Now onto what to buy... none of them in my opinion. (Remember, this is my opinion as a tech person that studies especially this type of lamp, not as a representitave for where I work or sales person in general. - Don't need any more problems with helping people for free when it comes to lamps - note that I'm also staying off the subject of pricing.)

All these lamps are dead ends on the Darwin lamp chain.

Instead since the 120v version of the HX-603 is no longer available as a true rugged long life and 120v lamp of high quality, the 115v version won't be as useful. It will still be a very good lamp in comparison, but 10 years from now you will no longer see any of these on the market I theorize. Much better lamps on the market.



The GLA series of HP-600X or HX-605 or HP-601 as a temporary designation by many vendors is a far superior line of lamp and what temporary HX or HP designation they give it are much better. Actually, I think the HX-603 is by part number really a #37404 in accuracy but still 115v.

The GE/Thorn GLA/HX-605, Philips GLA/#6992P, Osram GLA-575/115/2000, Ushio GLA/HP-601 line of ANSI code long life HX-600 type of lamp is much better. While it does not have the double coil filament of the HX-603, it does have a single coil c-13D filament that is just as well supported, just less in say thickness of wire supported.

The GE/Thorn is rated for 3,050°K; 13,000 Lum; 1,500 hours
Philips is rated for 3,100°K; 13,000 Lum; 1,500hours
Osram/Sylvania is rated for 3,050°K; 10,500 Lum; 2,000hours
and Ushio is rated for 3,100°K; 12,500 Lum; 1,500hours

As you can see, there is a wide difference between brands - at least in what they specify, but what is not shown is that the filament type is much more compact and refined for use in optical systems and in all ways the GLA series has advantages over any of the other lamps given the range of product available either in super long life or much better output.
This in addition to a more point source double stack to the filament that even on a less efficient fixture will help it's output over that of a lamp with a larger filament. The more refined the filament, the more light is physically getting out of the fixture.

If you note say a Strand SL line of fixture, there is a reason it's using a GLA and not a FLK/LL. Optics is everything once you have the compact filament taking advantage of it. Given a less efficient fixture optically, it still will benefit by a more compact source of light.

At the moment, and in my opinion, the Philips GLA lamp is the best long life lamp on the market. This will change once Osram comes out with the HPR 575/115LL long life lamp they I think are still developing. Once it comes out it will be 15 to 20% more efficient yet.

Hope it helps, I'm sure elsewhere on the forum I have posted a complete list of all the lamps of this type on the market.

[moojoe]

thanks ship.
one thing i frogot to mention, i have a box of both types of lamps, so it wouldnt be buying any more lamps. i just have to decide which to put into a shakespeare for a gobo which i need to have as powerful as possible
(projecting a palace built out of pure light, so...needs to be as bright as possible)

[Mayhem]

Then based upon what ship has said, use the HX601 as this uses the cc-8 filament and has a higher output (if I am reading and understanding correctly). The smaller filament will produce a more even output and less "shadowing" from the filament itself. Thus, would be better suited to gobo projection.

However, given that you have both types in stock. Why don't you try both and compare the difference?

[SuperCow]

There's no substitute for trial and error, in my opinion!

[Les]

Also, make sure your lamp is centered correctly. This can also affect the brightness and definition of your gobo projection. I'm sure you already know this.

[ship]

Bench focus and donuts are good. Donut being a term not a food unless really broke.

One for pattern projection might also go with a refined high output lamp in fixtures that are to be presenting a pattern or special purpose. As long as you can ensure that these fixtures get their normal lamp re-installed after the show, there is good value in a few say HPR 575/115v lamps in stock specifically for this use. Might only have a lamp life of 300 hrs. at 115v, but given the pattern is not a wash light, or used as much it as an investment for this purpose otherwise in a theater using sound fiscal responsibility in using the long life lamps for budget purposes, will still be able to find use in a better lamp for specific purposes.

After that, and as Mayhem cited, I would use the FLK/LL lamps for image projection and save the HX-603 lamps for the shin busters, booms and over the stage yoked up fixtures. In other words, this well supported lamp will be much more rugged.

After these lamps are gone, I would start replacing them with the GLA series of lamp especially for Shakespeare fixtures. Even if designed around the FLK/HX-600 lamp as the FLK/LL or HX-603 becomes the long life version, were it choice today or by way of if they upgraded their specifications for lamp to fixture, I'm sure it would recommend the GLC (high output) and GLA lamps.

This given they did not recommend the HPR line of lamp which by design is a internal reflectorized FLK, but given the technology it might be an improved GLC instead. That internal reflector being the key in completing the hole in the ellipsoidal reflector cut out for the lamp to fit into it.

Beyond the lamp, a good bench focus for the specific range of throw, and often a donut in the pattern slot will work wonders for a clean image.

[Radman]

The biggest question I have is how the heck do you type that degree symbol!