Three phase power and distribution

[beam_1973]

Have searched past threads and couldn't find the exact answer ... hopefully I can describe it here (even better if someone has the answer):-

Firstly, if I have a 3 phase outlet (lets say 32 amps), a 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack and a selection of 240V fixtures that run on single phase. Some of the fixtures I want to run off dimmer channels (e.g. PARs), some I don't (e.g. intels).

Is it possible/appropriate to split the feed from the 3 phase outlet so I end up with a 3 phase outlet to run the dimmers and have a few single phase GPOs to run the intels (so its all actually running off the same 32 amp supply). To clarify, I have seen the boxes of 3 x double GPOs (single phase) that you can plug directly into a 3 phase outlet, but I want a 3 phase outlet inbetween the two, to still be able to plug the dimmer in as well (and yes, total power for dimmer and intels combined would be less than 32 amps).

Secondly, a 3 phase 32amp supply means a maximum load of 32amps on the outlet e.g. 25 x PAR56 (240V) off one 32 amp outlet, its not 3 phases x 32amps allowing for 94 amps of loading, is this correct?? Does any of this logic change if/when i convert 32amps of 3 phase down to single phase?? Do I still only have 32 amps of power available when converted to single phase.

Sorry for the long-winded question, but wanted to give as much info upfront.

[ship]

That's long?

While I don't major in Euro, I do wire for it frequently. Same as US, 32A per phase no matter the voltage into it. Not a total amperage on that plug for all phases but for each phase.

You will need something within your local code applicable to distribute the power to the various components / dimmer/non-dimmer outlet safely. That component to split apart the phases I don't know what is within your code to do specifically. Might try the Blue Room http://www.blue-room.org.uk for the more localized how to or what and where you might rent if nobody else chimes in.

I take it for granted that your dimmer pack cannot or does not have enough slots avalable to have a few non-dimming modules replacing the dimming ones to do this given it has feeding it a:
Cee 5-pin Female Bal’s #3147 32A-9H 120/208&144/250v 32A (30A) Ceeform - blue 5-pin 3P+N+G Female “Kupplung”

Cee 5-Pin Female CeeForm #331509 32A-9H 120/208&144/250v 32A (30A) Ceeform - blue 5-pin 3P+N+G Female

(Leviton now also makes these plugs now.)


Given your dimmer does not have enough available slots to loose some dimmers in exchange for non-dim ones, or the modules are not feasible to rent or buy, in the US, I would do some form of portable power supply that complies with our codes to feed both such as in this case say a three phase switch panel or circuit breaker sub-panel dependant upon the amount of outlets it needs to provide for. This panel mounted to plywood that feeds the various outlets, or even a rack mount version where needed. Various definate rules about doing such things and even as under current modification by the proposed ESTA single conductor feeder requirements, how it's done is changing in as yet un-known ways. How I do stuff these days might be changing at some point.

[jonhirsh]

What are your conncetions comeing out of your three phase disconnect.

If its CamLok You can get a Distro and use the passthrough to power your dimers.

If its not Camlok you can buy a distro that is made for what ever type of connector you have.

Unfortuneatly when dealing with power home made is not always the best choice.

If you were in the states or even London i would sugest you call TMB http://www.tmb.com/ they are leading experts in DIstros and such. Give there london office a call they will atlest beable to advise you on steps to take.

JH

[beam_1973]

Ship - thanks for responding ... not sure where the UK thinking is (I'm in Sydney Aust), perhaps its the way I reference the power??? The issue is more that the work I do, the venue usually has its own dimmer pack, but not always enough single phase power to run the intels, so was hoping to put something between the house dimmer pack ad the outlet that would facilitate this. I'm trying to dig up manuals on the relevant dimmer packs that might tell me if its possible to run individual dimmer channels in a stand alone mode so that they act like a standard single phase outlet (the equivalent of turning the pre-heat up to 100% I guess). Is this likely???

Jon - yep, all good info there, and no plans to knock up something homemade, will leave the hardware and wiring up to the licensed professionals (which I am not). Excuse my lack of knowledge, but i don't think they are "camlok" connectors. I think they are "twistlock" connectors (the connectors that you plug into the outlet and then screw the orange ring on the plug onto the male thread on the outlet (is this correct??).

[jonhirsh]

Thats definitly not twist lock twist is for 20amps. But if you take a photo we might be able to identify it, Could be C5 but thats usualy blue.

There is a pic of Cam's
http://www.loudandclear.com/power/th2k1-035sm.JPG

I have no clue about what your cable is.
Sory
JH

[cutlunch]

Beam I would talk to your local electrician as he will know the proper regulations for distribution. I know an electrician here built a portable distribution board for this sort of thing.

It was built in a plastic distribution box of the type that is completely enclosed. It had a couple of metres of three phase cable with appropriate 3 phase plug. On the ditribution side there were two 3 phase outlets. Also there were three double socket outlets, wired one to a phase. There was also all the appropriate circuit breakers included.

It would probably cost $400 - $500 to have made as the three phase plugs, sockets are probably a $100+ each.

There are also pre-made ditribution boxes to do this. I can't think of the brand but if you go to your local electrical supply company they should put you on to them. I first saw them in the army but have seen them in civy street they are pretty generic.

You probably would be better to spread your intelligent lights supply across all phases to make it easier to balance the load on the dimmers, to avoid tripping the breakers.

Just to give some idea of the sort of 3 phase plugs Beam is likely to be talking about I have included a couple of links.

The links below are New Zealand standard for three phase power used in lighting distribution. As New Zealand and Australia share the same standards these are probably similar to the ones Beam_1973 is talking about. If I am wrong my ANZAC buddies will be along to correct me.

http://www.pdl.co.nz/product-details...tid=609&id=518

http://www.pdl.co.nz/product-details...catid=0&id=420

As you can see these plugs push in, then the outer ring is screwed onto the socket thread. So I am not sure how much they differ from what the US call twistlocks.

[jonhirsh]

Im prety sure thats a C5 Connector.

JH

[beam_1973]

Cutlunch - re your links to the pics, yep they are EXACTLY the ones I am talking about. And thanks heaps for your advice on costs etc. And you got ahead of my next question regarding splitting intel loads across the 3 phases, I thought that would be the case, but thanks for confirming it.

I can finally sleep easy on this issue.

Cheers
Beam

[ship]

Switching dimmers to non-dim probably or at least normally would not do it properly - though it might and or at times with some gear is done. Instead a relay module that completely replaces the dimmer and is like a DMX controlled on/off switch would be preferred. That said the manual might say it's possible but you will probably have to drop a line to the manufacturer on that question given it's a ballast based fixture. If incandescent, shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry about the British thing, forget there is more than us/them (Europe) or you guys down under.

Feed thru power tapping distro would be probably the best solution. Good point about distributing and balancing the load Cutlunch.

[Chris15]

I've seen exactly what you are after. It wasn't branded, but it goes along these lines: Clipsal 32 amp 3 phase plug on ~2 metres of 3 phase cable --> 3U Rack Case -->
32 amp 3 way breaker --> 32 amp socket on rear panel &
3x 20 amp single phase breakers --> 1 double GPO front & rear per phase

With neons above each breaker to show they are on. If I were building one or getting it built, I'd be inclined to put in an RCD as well. As I understand it, since it has a flexible lead & a plug, you do not need to be a licenced electrician to build such a distro (in NSW at least... I THINK), check with a sparky.

As far as replacement with non-dims modules goes, I assume Beam is talking about the typical dimmers we have here, like these, so there are not individual modules per say, it's all together.