How would I use these light console features?

[gafftaper]

Hi,
I'm in the process of preparing to purchase a light console for a new college theater. We want to have a nice collection of intelligent lights in our inventory (Selador Strips, VL1000's, and a set of Seachangers). I've been looking at the new Strand Light Palette consoles. My background is purely conventional lighting and I can program an ETC Express like a monster. But when it comes to some of the advanced features on the big boards, my lack of experience with intelligents (lack of intelligence?), leaves me unsure what features I need the most. I just downloaded the user manual and I'm slogging through it but it's not exactly easy reading. So I thought I would post my questions here looking for some real world examples of how the following features would be used:

First: there is the 100 key "direct action keypad"/"quick action selection panel": is this sort of like programmable push button submasters. Use them to select preprogrammed focus points or to call up a color in the wash?

Second: "Two timed playbacks" Does this create a time delay on actions that the submasters or keypad buttons call for?

Third: "12 direct access playback faders" Are these essentially fancy submasters? What is the difference between these and a submaster?

[icewolf08]

Here is my two cents on the issue of new consoles. It sounds like the console you are looking at is the new LightPallette VL. Here are some answers to your questions based on what I have learned about these new consoles.
1) Your direct action keypad as I understand it functions like you thought, you can store attribute groups for quick recall.
2) Your two timed playbacks are the equivalent of the A/B C/D faders on your Express, or the X1 and X2 on a Strand 300 or 500 series console.
3) The 12 additional faders allow you to control multiple cue lists. In Expression land and Strand 300/500 land even if you have both faders active they read the cues off the same list. On the new Pallette and on the ETC Eos each fader can control it's own individual cue list.
If what you are used to is the ETC Express, you will find that it is a big jump to move up to the Strand or even to say the ETC Obsession II. At my theatre we run a Strand 520 and 530, and they both handle all of the ML's we can throw at them. When I was in college we used a Strand 300 and it also had no issues with many ML's in a rig. From my standpoint as a 500 series programmer I would look into the LghtPallette Live as opposed to the VL. One of the nice things about Strand is that all of their consoles in a given series run the same software so the biggest differences between the Live and the VL are in what you have direct access to as a button on the faceplate, the software is the same.
Here are a couple quick questions for you:
Is there a reason you decided to make the switch to strand?
-I ask because you say you know ETC language really well
What kind of dimmers do you have?
-This I ask because some of the newer consoles can access dimmer features if the console and dimmers are the same brand.
I hope that helps a little.

[gafftaper]

It's a long story, here is the short version... I was expecting to have final say on Strand vs. ETC and get to choose my console. Unfortunately, that didn't happen when it went to bid and instead it all went Strand. So currently I'm getting Strand C21 Dimmers and a Strand "Classic Palette". I've got nothing against the Classic Palette, it's would be a great console if we were going to just use conventionals. What the guy who designed the system didn't know is that we are hoping to spend about $200K on intelligent toys. I'm concerned about it really being a pain in the butt without the encoders and some of the buttons up top on the Light Palette series, plus there are things like being able to have multiple monitors, larger hard drive, faster processor, etc... At this point I'm dealing with a huge hassle and expense of change orders with the contractor to make any changes, so going to an all ETC system is basically impossible. I'm sort of pushing it with the powers that be just changing my console.

I am really interested in the possibility of switching to an EOS but I'm a little concerned about that working with my Strand dimmers using the ethernet protocols. I've had a hard time getting an answer from anyone as to if that combo is possible and if possible, is it practical without a lot of pain and heartache. Also as you suggested, I think there are some features I will lose if I don't keep the system all Strand. On the positive side, I have used and loved the Horizon software, so I was really excited when the big buyout happened. It's really logical and easy to use so I don't expect too much pain learning the new system.

[soundlight]

There is a possibility that using ETCnet3 (which is at least partially ACN compliant) and an ACN input card on the dimmers, you could use ACN as your protocol of choice. But I'm not sure how that'd work right now.

If have lots of say in the intelligent budget, see if you can do a console trade-in down the road when you get the intelligents. That might work.

[icewolf08]

Well, there are a lot of advantages to going all Strand, and from what I hear the C21 dimmers are supposed to be nice dimmers, and there is a great advantage to the fact that if you ever want to upgrade any or all to sinewave dimmers you won't need a new rack. Also the Strand consoles will be able to talk directly to the dimmers and you should be able to control your dimmers via 1 ethernet cable as opposed to a DMX run for each universe of dimmers.

In terms of Consoles, all of the new LP series have the rotary encoders for ML's and intelligent fixtures, it just becomes a question of what else you want. So if your contractor hasn't locked you into the Classic Palette then you should push for your upgrade. My personal philosophy with computer equipment is that you should buy the best device you can afford since it will be out of date before you want to replace it. The thing to keep ion mind with all of these new consoles is the channel count you need and how many attribute channels you need. If you are going to be buying a bunch of intelligent fixtures youcan start racking up the channel count fast so make sure if you are providing specs to your contractor that you tell them how many channels minimum you need as both Strand and ETC will unlock more channels for you, but it costs more.

I have to imagine that the new LP series from strand is their answer to ETC's EOS. I have to say it is the first ETC console that would tempt me back to ETC land. It incorporated so many of the features that Strand already had, and on the basic level it programs like an Obsession II. I had the chance to demo it in my theatre (on a pre production model) and from my standpoint on the productions we do (which are by no means small in any way) I wasn't missing much on my Strand 530. The point of that was that it seems that between the EOS and the LP series as one console to control them all you probably don't need one over the other, they are right in the same league.

Now, what soundlight said about ACN may be true. the EOS does speak a variant of ACN so it may be able to speak ACN to Strand Dimmers. There is also the ability to setup a DMX node (which I believe comes with every EOS since they don't have built in DMX outputs) at your dimmers and run one ethernet cable between console and node/dimmers. You may not be able to get dimmer feedback on the console, but everything else should work fine.

So, I have tried not to be biased, though I would go Strand, and I hope that this was not too much information at once.

[gafftaper]

Yeah I've resigned myself that it's going to be a Strand console. The future "EOS junior" would be just about perfect for me. However I get nervous when we start talking about adapting things and experts say I SHOULD be able to make that work. I want a system that is ready to talk to itself and doesn't start out with a weird hitch in it. As I said, I'm very happy with the Horizon software. I really wouldn't be thinking about changing to ETC if it wasn't for the fact that I'm an "ETC Guy". But I can get over that, so I'm going to get myself "Strand-ed".

I just e-mailed my local dealer about the trade in and upgrade idea. Depending on the prices they give me, I can't imagine it costing more than dealing with the contractor. I think it's likely to cost me less and it's certainly a lot less hassle than dealing with change orders. So thanks for that idea!

[lightbyfire]

I would like to start by saying that in the past I have had serious issues with Strand and their approach to lighting consoles.

With that out of the way, I really like what I have read of the Light palette. I have extremely high hopes for the console, and am eagerly awaiting the arrival of ours (hopefully within the month). I read through the manual, and agree that it is a little difficult to get through, but the adaptations they have made seem extremely intuitive.

As I understand it, the 100 key pad would be most usueful if you intend to program heads up, otherwise it is only two other keystrokes to get the same grid of 100 keys on the monitor and then point and click to attain the same end result, essentaily each key is user definable as a look or group. So you could use it as a focus point quick key or a selection of fixtures without attirbute information, or whatever is necessary, but you can do the same within the software if you have the Live or Classic. In other words I think that that function is very useful for ML purposes and will cut down programing time significantly.

As far as trying to switch consoles, I recomend that you try for a LP series rather than ETC, because as you said "should work" is a scary phrase. While I think the EOS also sounds like a very good console, I am willing to bet that since you have a strand system you will have dificulty with a seamless interface. As far as ACN I do not know enough about it.

Good luck getting things straightened out.

Also Strand has put up the offline editor, which really gives a better feel for the console interface than just the screenshots the manual has.

[gafftaper]

Thanks for the tip on the off line editor. I was hoping they would post it but hadn't seen it on their yet. I've got it now and I'm going to play!!

[soundlight]

I think that if you're getting intelligents the trade-in idea is almost necessary. And yes, it would go around the budget fixing that would be required. Just make sure that they aren't going to put the console in to some sort of college-wide fixed asset inventory system, that it will just be in your inventory system and switchable whenever you want to trade it in for the big one.

Personally, I'd go for the LightPalletteVL model with the 100 or so direct selects. When I find myself going through a few clicks to get to positions, colors, gobos, and other things that are used over and over again, it really annoys me. I would love a panel of direct selects like that. But to each their own! Good luck on this project!!

(And post pics if you ever end up getting the Seladors and Seachangers.)

[SteveB]

I think you should adopt a wait and see attitude. Since you can't change it, don't.
I too am an ETC man, but mostly due to the reliability of the ETC product and the terrific service, not a result of the OS.
I'm currently of the opinion that Strand builds console that simultaneously deal with ML's and conventionals better then the existing ETC Obsession/Expression console series. It may well be that either Congo or EOS will be one up on Strand, but EOS is still in beta testing, while Congo, while generally received, forces you to wrap your head around reverse polish syntax.
Strand has great dimmers, very good networking and decent consoles, that with the merge of the Marque OS makes them even better. Strand also does some stuff with accessories - WiFi remote, Laptop console remote, that are a bit smarter then ETC.
If I were in your shoes, I'd get a hold of the Off-Line editor and start to learn the OS. I think you'll like what you find.
SB