Jands Event 416

[tomed101]

Our school is looking at applying for a grant to get a new console, a few movers and possibly a new dimmer and some conventionals. We have successfully done this in the past for things like the new grand piano etc.

I am looking at the 416 because it seems to be a great mix for us because we use mostly conventionals and if we get the grant, 4-8 movers. Originally I was looking at the Hog 1000 but that is very "mover orientated" and I like to mix with a fader per channel for conventionals, and the 1000 only has the 16 master faders. Does anyone have any experience with the 416, and if so is it good/bad.
Also what recommendations do you have for some relatively cheap (or not so cheap) movers?

Tom

[lamphead]

I think you would find one of the Strand desks to your liking. They are based on the "Horizon" operating system.

http://rpd06.tempdomainname.com/rpd0...egory=Controls

http://www.rosco.com/us/lightingcontrol/horizon.asp

[soundlight]

The Jands Event 416 or the Compulite D-lite would be good picks here.

I don't know how many of the US cheap moving light brands are available down under, but here's my mover recommendations.

Cheap(ish) Movers:
Vari-Lite VL1000TSD or TID model for more theatrical type stuff (my one big name mover)
Elation Design Spot 575E

Cheap(er):
Chauvet Q-spot 575
AMDJ Accu Spot 575
Chauvet Legend series
Elation Design Spot 250 (best in this category)

Pretty Dern Cheap:
Elation Focus Spot 250R (great little unit, by the way)
AMDJ Cheap ****
Chauvet Cheap ****
Other Brands' Cheap ****

I would go with something like 4 VL1000TSD's, because they are tungsten units, and are also built like a tank.

[tomed101]

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the look of the Compulite D-lite's but not so much the two lamphead suggested, mostly because I like the fader per channel of dimming I use. If I can make it work, id like to get a few Vari-Lite's. The Gambling grants are usually fairly generous if you word the application right.

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by tomed101

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the look of the Compulite D-lite's but not so much the two lamphead suggested, mostly because I like the fader per channel of dimming I use. If I can make it work, id like to get a few Vari-Lite's. The Gambling grants are usually fairly generous if you word the application right.

If you like the console that lamphead suggested, and you think that there is going to be good money, I would look into the Strand Light Palette Live as opposed to the Classic Palette. It has more faders and a better physical ML package. They are both based on the same software.

I think it is interesting the categories that soundlight has tossed some of the MLs into. It may be just me, but I wouldn't list a VL1000 as cheap. Less expensive I suppose, but compared to many of the other fixtures on that list it certainly is not a cheap fixture, and probably the most expensive on the list. Other fixtures you might look into:
•the Elation Powerspot 700, relatively new, but I own a pair and they work great, reliable, fast, and bright.
•the ETC Source 4 Revolution, people here b**ch about them, but when all is said and done, for the price they really aren't bad fixtures. The don't have the feature set that the VL1000 has, but they are modular and easy to learn and work with in a school setting. As long as you take care of them (as with any ML) they should work just fine. Plus, now they feature a Wybron scroller which should be very nice.

[gafftaper]

Personally I'm a little affraid of Jands. It's better than a lot of other options but it's just not an ETC or Strand console. So if your budget can stretch into the $10,000+ range I would look seriously at ETC/Strand.

One of the new strand Consoles might be a great solution. The Light Palette live has a starting list price around
$35,000 if I remember right, so you might want to stick with one of the lower end models. They all have the same software, it's just a matter of if it has designated buttons or if you have to access the control by mouse/keyboard short cut.

ETC Congo Jr. with the submaster wing is a great option as well. It's got a lot of moving light power for under $15,000

ETC Smart Fade ML is another new interesting product to consider.

Also remember we are only a few months away from ETC's ION being released. It's supposedly a shrunk down version of EOS. It might be worth waiting until the Fall to get a good look at that as it should be very conventional and moving light friendly.

If you are talking theater aplications, it makes a lot of sense to go for either: VL 1000, S4 Revolution, or Mac T1W. All three are tungesten lamps so they will blend in nicely with your existing instruments.

Last thing to consider. Why do you REALLY want the moving lights? How often will you really use them? Or is it really just to have a toy that moves? How many shows do you do that really call for a moving light? Can you satisfy that need by renting an I-cue or Apollo Right Arm instead? What about taking that money and investing in Seachangers to add color mixing to your existing Source4 inventory. If you need a moving light for a show rent it. Seachangers are far more practical than moving lights for the vast majority of theater uses... and at about $1700 each you can afford more of them. Remember the average life on most of the moving lights listed is only around 300 hours so you'll have to spend about $100 per moving light per year just to keep them working. A Seachanger in a Source4 with long life bulbs... it'll be a couple years until you have to replace that $20 lamp.

Finally, do some searching: Congo, new Strand consoles, which console should I buy, Seachangers, low end moving lights, VL1000, Revoltuion. All of these have been discussed in the past, some in extensive detail.

[tomed101]

Originally Posted by gafftaper

Last thing to consider. Why do you REALLY want the moving lights? How often will you really use them? Or is it really just to have a toy that moves? How many shows do you do that really call for a moving light? Can you satisfy that need by renting an I-cue or Apollo Right Arm instead? What about taking that money and investing in Seachangers to add color mixing to your existing Source4 inventory. If you need a moving light for a show rent it. Seachangers are far more practical than moving lights for the vast majority of theater uses... and at about $1700 each you can afford more of them. Remember the average life on most of the moving lights listed is only around 300 hours so you'll have to spend about $100 per moving light per year just to keep them working. A Seachanger in a Source4 with long life bulbs... it'll be a couple years until you have to replace that $20 lamp.
Finally, do some searching: Congo, new Strand consoles, which console should I buy, Seachangers, low end moving lights, VL1000, Revoltuion. All of these have been discussed in the past, some in extensive detail.

All great points, and thankyou to all who contributed.

There seems to be a misconception here that this is a theatrical setting. Our school is in fact very musically orientated, and these lights will be used for these concerts. Last year we performed at a large outdoor concert with some big name artists and the HOD fell in love with movers and we only now have the opportunity to apply for a grant to buy some. The lighting company at the outdoor concert managed to get some amazing effects with 6 movers in varying shades of blue with various gobos on the choir (270 members). Also regarding the point as to how often we will need them, probably every three weeks for the gigs and much more often than that for the various tech-runs etc.

In total, the maximum we can apply for in the grant is $30,000AUD which is about $25,000USD I have emailed a few local dealers of lighting equipment asking for price lists to get me into the general area of how much these things cost, and if and when we get the grant, we could get them a bit cheaper and get a few extra bits/bulbs/accessories etc.

[soundlight]

Speaking as someone who recently finished high school, I can say that I would have really liked to work with a few movers in high school. I also don't believe in arc lamps for high schools, so that's why I reccomended the VL1000TSD as my first choice in the mid-range mover market. Now that you mention it, the ETC S4 Revolution would be a good option, especially with the wybron scroller. However, if you can get the money, 4 VL1000 TSD's or TID's would be amazing for you. I'd personally reccomend the TID's, because I'd use an iris much more than I would shutters with moving lights.

I would really look in to the Compulite D-lite for a console. I've done a whole lot of research in to it, and it's a very advanced console for it's price (well under $10K USD for the 36/72 model). It has a better featureset and moving light control than the Jands Event, and it also has a nice touchscreen for moving light control, which makes it much, much easier (that's what the screen built in to the upper right of the console is).

Either that, or *has excellent idea* the LSC MAXIM! Excellent console, and it's from folks down under! Not nearly as advanced as the Compulite D-lite, but great console for a school. Get the 36/72 (size L) model with the PatPad if you can afford it, you WILL NOT regret it. One user on these forums has this console at their school, I forget who it is, but they love it. It's very easy to use in terms of ML control, even though it doesn't have a conventional keypad. The control structure is very well layed out and quite easy to use. The only drawback is that lack of the conventional control keypad. But the ML control and channel-per-fader control is there.

In addition to all of that, however, put some DMX toys in your grant. Some gobo rotators, I-Cues or Right Arms, some scrollers, and some DMX irises. A fixture with an I-Cue and a DMX Iris is basically a mover that you can use for theater shows that is very quiet, easy to control via faders, and is based on a regular fixture (S4 ERS).

Basically, think of things in two ways: 1, you want to make your shows look good. 2, you want to be able to use the lighting to gain experience with the current offerings in controllable lighting. I know that I'd much rather have 4 movers, 4 i-cues, 4 dmx irises, some DMX rotators, and 8 or so scrollers than 8 movers in an educational setting. This allows for students to learn a whole lot more.

Aha! Now I'ma gonna edit again!

Here's my final recommendation for what you should put in the grant:
Compulite D-lite 36/72 (or 48/96 depending on how many dimmers you have - you want to have more faders than dimmers to control other attributes and toys) (~8K USD)
4 VL1000TID fixtures (~20K-30K USD??)
4 I-Cues (~2200 USD)
4 DMX Irises & Power Supplies (~2500)
4 DMX Dual Gobo Roators (~2000 USD)
8 Apollo SmartColor 7.5" Scrollers (for S4 Par's or S4 Zooms - include S4 Par's in budget if you don't have them) (~2400 USD)
I-Cue & Scroller Power Supply, 400W Smart Power (~750 USD)
2 Gam FilmFX units (~$1400 USD)

Now that's a whopper of a grant for you. Good luck!

[tomed101]

Wow ok thats some great info. I think I might need to drop the VL1000's for something a bit cheaper because they will eat up my grant alone without even getting the console. I didn't realize quite how expensive they were. Does anyone know of any websites that have a comprehensive price list for lighting gear? Prices in AUD would be good but anything would help for me to get an idea of prices.

Thanks again for the info

[Charc]

Originally Posted by soundlight

Speaking as someone who recently finished high school, I can say that I would have really liked to work with a few movers in high school. I also don't believe in arc lamps for high schools, so that's why I reccomended the VL1000TSD as my first choice in the mid-range mover market. Now that you mention it, the ETC S4 Revolution would be a good option, especially with the wybron scroller. However, if you can get the money, 4 VL1000 TSD's or TID's would be amazing for you. I'd personally reccomend the TID's, because I'd use an iris much more than I would shutters with moving lights.
I would really look in to the Compulite D-lite for a console. I've done a whole lot of research in to it, and it's a very advanced console for it's price (well under $10K USD for the 36/72 model). It has a better featureset and moving light control than the Jands Event, and it also has a nice touchscreen for moving light control, which makes it much, much easier (that's what the screen built in to the upper right of the console is).
Either that, or *has excellent idea* the LSC MAXIM! Excellent console, and it's from folks down under! Not nearly as advanced as the Compulite D-lite, but great console for a school. Get the 36/72 (size L) model with the PatPad if you can afford it, you WILL NOT regret it. One user on these forums has this console at their school, I forget who it is, but they love it. It's very easy to use in terms of ML control, even though it doesn't have a conventional keypad. The control structure is very well layed out and quite easy to use. The only drawback is that lack of the conventional control keypad. But the ML control and channel-per-fader control is there.
In addition to all of that, however, put some DMX toys in your grant. Some gobo rotators, I-Cues or Right Arms, some scrollers, and some DMX irises. A fixture with an I-Cue and a DMX Iris is basically a mover that you can use for theater shows that is very quiet, easy to control via faders, and is based on a regular fixture (S4 ERS).
Basically, think of things in two ways: 1, you want to make your shows look good. 2, you want to be able to use the lighting to gain experience with the current offerings in controllable lighting. I know that I'd much rather have 4 movers, 4 i-cues, 4 dmx irises, some DMX rotators, and 8 or so scrollers than 8 movers in an educational setting. This allows for students to learn a whole lot more.
Aha! Now I'ma gonna edit again!
Here's my final recommendation for what you should put in the grant:
Compulite D-lite 36/72 (or 48/96 depending on how many dimmers you have - you want to have more faders than dimmers to control other attributes and toys) (~8K USD)
4 VL1000TID fixtures (~20K-30K USD??)
4 I-Cues (~2200 USD)
4 DMX Irises & Power Supplies (~2500)
4 DMX Dual Gobo Roators (~2000 USD)
8 Apollo SmartColor 7.5" Scrollers (for S4 Par's or S4 Zooms - include S4 Par's in budget if you don't have them) (~2400 USD)
I-Cue & Scroller Power Supply, 400W Smart Power (~750 USD)
2 Gam FilmFX units (~$1400 USD)
Now that's a whopper of a grant for you. Good luck!

Just curious, since I don't know, what is so great about a DMX iris? I know I have tunnel vision, and little experience, but I can't conceive of a situation where that might be useful. I mean, I'd rather buy a seachanger, or Right Arm.