Not all China products are the same!

[JD]

I think I have been operating under a popular misconception that China works like one BIG company, and that if two products look the same, they are probably the same inside. I recently bought a couple of Elation 4 channel dimmers for D.I.Y. rentals. These are rated at ten amps per channel, twenty amps max unit capacity. They cost me about $180 each. Later, I was looking at the Bulbamerica site and saw a dimmer with the same specs with the old "Similar to" line in the title. Cost- $58.95! I couldn't resist! I knew there had to be a difference, yet the specs were the same and they looked the same. So I bought one and got out my trusty screwdriver. Now, I want to say that I am not criticizing the Bulbamerica site, in fact I buy a lot of things from them. They didn't say it was the same product, and the price was one third of the cost of the Elation pack. Here is what I found:

Elation $180 / Bulbamerica $58
Heavy gauge case / Light gauge case
12-3 power cord / 14-3 power cord
(inside)
Separate DMX decoder board / all in one board
Larger marked Triacs / Smaller unmarked Triacs
More windings on filter chokes / less windings
Well laid out ground wiring / simplified wiring

There was more, but you get the idea. Both units worked fine, and they are marketed to the DIY crowd and not for permanent installations. I don't know if there is any type of competitive market in China, or if the equipment is simply built to the requested spec of the marketing company. The lesson learned is that there is drastic quality differences between similar looking products built in China, and that name brand actually does makes a difference.

[stantonsound]

Great info. Honestly, I was under the impression that the stuff from bulbamerica was exactly the same. (I also purchase a great deal from them, and love the cheap Par64's that they have - I've got more than 40 of theirs for cheap rentals).

I know that there are many people that say that the elation moving lights are the same or better than Martin, HES, Coemar, and some of the other "professional" movers. The fact is, I do not believe that it is true. I have used the elation's from time to time. One of the companies that I deal with a great deal only stocks Elation movers (they also have ColorKinetics, and I get my LED's from them) and when I am in a tight spot, I will use or subrent from them. Recently, I had a last minute change and needed 6 more movers for a show. The only ones available for same day rental were (2) Elation Powerspot 700's and (4) VisionScan 575's. The road crew was truly piZZed off, as was the LD, when I have to put a few elations in the mix. Everything else was HES and Coemar. The Powerspot 700 was decent, but was heavy and was slower than the StudioSpot, and the VisionScan 575 was a glorified version of a DJ light that I used 5+ years ago. You won't see the elation name on anything piece of equipment in a truely professional touring rig at a concert this summer, I can promise you that. I can not understand why they would make a $4000 fixture that is supposed to be professional grade and comes with a sound activated program. This is like putting a kick stand on Corvette.

Why does it have such a bad reputation? Well, in the past it has truly earned it. Their equipment was cheaply made and would not stand up to the rigors of the road. It was slower, louder, and not as bright. But what about now? Are they making a turn around? Who knows?

I can say that if a customer has the choice of renting a technobeam or a studiowash, as compared to anything made by Elation, they will take the porfessional gear hands down every day. (and the technobeams are OLD technology, but still preferred).

[JD]

Originally Posted by stantonsound

I can not understand why they would make a $4000 fixture that is supposed to be professional grade and comes with a sound activated program. This is like putting a kick stand on Corvette.

Ha! Yea, I know what you mean! I think they are still in the process of growing up and don't realize the difference between the markets. China is on a learning curve, and I don't know where on that curve they are right now. Each new line gets better, but even if they were at par tomorrow, it would take years before they were accepted by the professional renters. I just noticed on the "Powerspot" thread that someone is about to put a bunch of them on tour. I hope we can get some feedback after the tour as to how the Elation Movers did.
As for the par cans, I have a lot of them too!

[gafftaper]

[Hijack]
In the news last night was a story about Chinese tooth paste that contains the same active ingredient as anti-freze. Apparently in this state they've been giving it out to prisoners because it's cheap.

YIKES!!

[JD]

Actually, not a Hijack! Quality control is something we must all be aware of, especially with the China products. That's why I'm big on taking everything apart! (It also comes from spending many years in the electronics service industry.) In my first post, we see that the pack rated for a 20 amp draw come with a 14-3 power cord. As it is not a permanent installation piece, it gets away with it, but it should also raise a red flag.

We see China using lead paint in toys, skipping steps in tire manufacturing, and goofing on pet food. In other words, making all the same mistakes we made in the 1900's! They are growing up. They have a pretty rotten reputation to overcome. Still, each product needs to be looked at for its own merits or demerits. So, I will continue taking things apart. (I like doing that anyway!) If I take something apart and it looks good, I will use it. (I've seen some pretty stupid stuff done on American products as well!) If it proves to be reliable and affordable I will keep using it independent of where it comes from. My big surprise was how much variance is found within the products coming out of China depending on the brand labeling.

[gafftaper]

Speaking of lead paint... my son has 5 Thomas the Train toys that were recently revealed as having lead paint. A company sells millions of these toys every year... what boy in this country under the age of 7 doesn't have at least a few of them... somehow a few pieces slip through to a bad Chinese subcontractor who hasn't heard that lead paint is dangerous. What surprises me is that when the product arrives on this side of the ocean, the company doesn't run a quality control test once a month to make sure the toy doesn't have lead paint.

Which brings up an interesting point to our industry. A quality product could be taken down pretty quick to this sort of subcontracting. You make a good product but you circuit board supplier over seas changes and your product can suck overnight.

[avkid]

Originally Posted by gafftaper

[Hijack]
In the news last night was a story about Chinese tooth paste that contains the same active ingredient as anti-freze. Apparently in this state they've been giving it out to prisoners because it's cheap.
YIKES!!

That's one way(if slightly unethical) to cut down on overcrowding.

Sarcasm is in use kids!!!

[gafftaper]

Phil you are a sick man.

I thought it was very funny

[stantonsound]

Ok, here's a question. Check out the new June 2007 issue of PLSN. On page 48, there is an advertisement for Global Truss (which is part of Elation). There is a truss rig that is ground lifted. This is an every day occurrence, but they are using a manual chainfall rather than using a chain motor hoist. This doesn't look very safe to me. It appears that you use the chainfall to lift it, and then hook it up with another piece of chain. What is your opinion of this?

Also, how many people do you need to lift this thing?

[gafftaper]

Originally Posted by stantonsound

Ok, here's a question. Check out the new June 2007 issue of PLSN. On page 48, there is an advertisement for Global Truss (which is part of Elation). There is a truss rig that is ground lifted. This is an every day occurrence, but they are using a manual chainfall rather than using a chain motor hoist. This doesn't look very safe to me. It appears that you use the chainfall to lift it, and then hook it up with another piece of chain. What is your opinion of this?
Also, how many people do you need to lift this thing?

HOLY CRAP! When it comes to anything at all related to rigging... if it doesn't have made in the USA stamped into the metal I'm not buying. I don't care how cheap it is. Chinese made truss is about the most frightening thing I can think of.