Artistic control during a show

[gabe]

So my highschool is nearing completion of a new $14M "performing arts center," and the time has come that I am starting to meet with all of the various contractors for the mandatory training. So the other day I was with the director of the theater program, my lighting guy and the Strand rep being trained on our new Sub Pallete.

My light guy and I have both had lots of experience on the 300 series so we were just sitting back ocasionally paying attention when he noted the differences between the two, but our director, having never operated a digital console, decided that he needed to know exactly how the cue sheet worked, from programming cues, to looks, to cue parts, to effects etc etc. And at one point my director wanted to know if you could do a manual fade from one cue to another with a slider on the board. The Strand rep said that he had never been asked that question, and I asked why he would want to know because I had never had to do anything like that. Now my director swears that on Broadway cue times aren't the same every night depending on how the scene played out because he had acted on a Broadway stage before (long before digital consoles). The director said that he wanted the board ops to make "judgement calls" about fade times during the show. I said that the whole point of a cue'd show is so that each fade is the same every night, and all of the artistic control is in the SM and when she calls it each night.

So, my question is, when on Broadway or other up-scale professional theater, is this done? Does the board op really have any artistic control in terms of the fade time of blackouts?

[fosstech]

Not that I know of. I've never heard of such a thing. As the lighting rigs for these shows become more and more complicated, people need less variability. Sounds like your director is stuck in the past

[Raktor]

Slightly off-topic:

Being a user of primarily a Strand 300 I'm curious; what do you think of the Palette range now you've been shown through that console?

[icewolf08]

I suppose that there may be times in some live playback settings when you might need to grab control of a fade, but have you ever tried to do that on your 300? You have to hit the manual fade button and then take the X1 (or X2) faders to zero and then run the fade, so unless you have a very long count, the chance of you catching the fade is slim. It is even harder to catch a fade into manual on an Obsession. The only time I can think of that you might need this is if something goes terribly wrong on stage.

In the professional theatre world fade times are set by the designer, and that is that. The show is the designer's vision. a Stage Manager can only change things if the show is suffering before the change and even then, the SM is still supposed to consult the designer before making a change. A Stage Manager has no "Artistic Control" over the show. The stage manager's job is to keep the show running to the specifications of the director and the designers.

[Logos]

I work occasionally (and I love it) with a bunch of insane improv/performance art guys. I have to impro nearly everything, they expect me to as it is part of the mystique that the show is never the same twice. There are key sounds moves or words that are supposed to cue me but as a creative artist not as a go monkey.
It wouldn't work on big shows but d**n it's fun.
I'm hoping to get some movers (simple scans) in my next rig.

[David Ashton]

I'm puzzled, how can you do visual cues on a timed crossfade, for example, actor comes into darkened room and slightly opens a curtain and looks outside then opens up first one curtain then the other and the daylight streams in.Easy with a fader in your hand to follow the actor but extremely tricky with multiple x fades and certain to foul up during a season if actor slips with curtain etc.So I can see why you would want the ability to control manually.

[gafftaper]

Originally Posted by allthingstheatre

I'm puzzled, how can you do visual cues on a timed crossfade, for example, actor comes into darkened room and slightly opens a curtain and looks outside then opens up first one curtain then the other and the daylight streams in.Easy with a fader in your hand to follow the actor but extremely tricky with multiple x fades and certain to foul up during a season if actor slips with curtain etc.So I can see why you would want the ability to control manually.

That's the problem of the actor and the S.M. The designer designs it a set way and that's it. I'm surprised you would ask this question. That's how it's done here by anyone with a decent console and a little training. Again the point being that you set the timing in rehearsal and then it's exactly the same every night. There's far less chance of error pushing a go button on cue from the S.M. than there is in manually running sliders.

As far as I know the only time in the pro world you will see some "artistic control" is in concert lighting. But even then its still working with pre-recorded routines.

[zac850]

Theatrical lighting is based off the idea that every night it will be the same. Period. End of story. The blocking is set, the script is set, the lighting is set, the sound cues are set, and so on.

Broadway light ops sit and push the go button just like the rest of us, they are not charged with any artistic jobs. They just push the button when the SM tells them to, and the SM tells them to based on when the actor says whatever line or does whatever physical move the Q is taken off of.

Thats not to say that its not good to be able to be able to override the system. I've grabed faders and run manual fade times when the actors are moving with a ML or two tracking them. In theory, this should be set so the actor moves at the same speed every night though.


In a high school setting this is difficult, because you have the teacher and the student and the director all thinking they know everything, and all wanting to do it there way, and its very difficult to say "No, I'm the lighting designer, I'm looking at the stage and what your telling me to do is dumb and ugly. I want to do it my way and make it pretty and effective".

[David Ashton]

What a boring life you must lead just pressing buttons,now while it is true for ballet, opera and musicals it is absolutely not the case in comedy, I have done about 200 shows with Dame Edna, no 2 shows the same, Spike Milligan and the British actors of that time would delight in tricking me into false cues.The interplay between cast and crew can be part of the show which keeps everyone on their toes and makes every night a challenge."business" and ad libbing are central to many forms of comedy.There is no way I could have endured just pushing a button, so there is another way to do lighting where the operator is very much part of the action, and it sounds soul destroying to me to just be a button pusher, might as well give the SM the go button.Incidentally I think the term Artistic Control is a touch pretentious to describe the operator timing the cues to the stage action, particularly if the op can see the live action while the SM is watching through the video monitor.

[lighttechie5948]

this is true that most of the time you don't want to manually cross between cues. you just used up and down times for them. But, when using MLs to follow a person it is helpful to use the manual crossfade (ETC Expression/Express) because you don't know how fast or slow the person will move.

Plus, do you really think an actor can find a light on his own?