noob with questions - equipment hookup

[banditj13]

Hey all - I am a total beginner at lighting and light controls - having thrown myself into it for a small production my church is putting on. I have spent a few days looking up information online, for what it's worth... but have no other knowledge.
(I am a sound tech, not light tech)

Here is the equipment we have -

8 large sized lights (not sure on the "par" size?)

4 of these are plugged into a lightronics as-41 - not the as-41/412
(600 watts per channel - 2400 watts total)
it has MPX (I am assuming multiplex) in and out ports

The other 4 lights are plugged into a NSI ND4600
(600 watts per channel - 2400 watts total)
it has 2 MPX ports as well

Each of the dimmer packs are on individual switched circuits

The console we have is a ETA imagenation MC8C - 8 channel controller
The 3 pin port out is labeled as "ultraplex"... there are 2 ports out

The NSI dimmer turns all 4 lights on with no MPX control when powered on - all on, 100% -

Currently the lightronics dimmer is not turning on the 4 lights hooked to it - I need to make sure the fuses are good, and that the lights themselves are not blown - I do have power at the dimmer though


This system has not been used for at least 9 years - but the cabling is there... I just have to find the cable at the sound booth!

As it sits, the MC8C runs to the Lightronics dimmer, the Lightronics daisy chains to the NSI dimmer

I also have a spare NSI DDS5600 - with 2 blown channel fuses - not sure of its working status


What I need to know is if the MC8C ultraplex will be able to send proper timings and control signals to both the lightronics and NSI dimmers
Also, if I can't get the lightronics working, will the NSI work in its place, with the MC8C controller?


Sorry for the seemingly ignorant questions, but I can't seem to find a straight answer to these anywhere....


Thanks

[Hughesie]

that makes two of us, i have no idea what you are talking about, but i wish you luck, hopefully someone will be able to help you

[banditj13]

yeah... most of this stuff has manufacture dates from 94-95.... certainly not new!

I guess the most important thing I need to know is if NSI's microplex protocol is compatible with ETA's ultraplex protocol


Thanks

[kwotipka]

Originally Posted by banditj13

Each of the dimmer packs are on individual switched circuits

What do you mean by "switched"?

I also have a spare NSI DDS5600 - with 2 blown channel fuses - not sure of its working status

Try to find documentation online or somewhere on the dimmer itself that specifies EXACTLY what type of fuse to use. I have often seen fuses in dimmers that are not the correct ones but ones "that just happened to be handy".

Other than that, I put in some new NSI dimmers the other day that had the ability to switch between a few different protocols. Look for dip switches (other then the address switches) or menu options (if the dimmer has this). While not all protocols are created equal, something as simple as a dimmer should be fairly easy to control.

I applaud you efforts just remember to be safe when working with live dimmers. Pay attention to where the lights are pointing when on (ie, not 3 inches from a carpeted wall). Remember if it doesn't feel like the right thing to do, it probably isn't.

kw

[icewolf08]

So, as far as I can tell, from the lit of research I have just done, It is hard to tell if all these devices speak the same language. The Lightronics dimmer pack can speak NSI multiplex, but I am not sure if this is the same as NSI Microplex. My biggest concern about connecting the two different dimmer packs together is that NSI Microplex supplies a "phantom power" voltage so that the NSI controllers don't need to be plugged into the wall, but I don't know if that is compatible with the other components you have.

The only information I could find on the MC8C was in Japanese, so that is no help (unless you speak Japanese). I would have to imagine that if all of this gear was purchased together it would all work together, but you never know (well, someone might).

Here are some links for you though:
NSI manual
Lightronics Info

[kwotipka]

Originally Posted by icewolf08

My biggest concern about connecting the two different dimmer packs together is that NSI Microplex supplies a "phantom power" voltage so that the NSI controllers don't need to be plugged into the wall, but I don't know if that is compatible with the other components you have.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the voltage on pin 1 and the data on 2 with pin 3 being a common ground on most of those systems? Hince the problem with people who make mic cables and ground pin 1 to the hood of the connector. This in turns takes the B+ voltage to chassie ground.

kw

[banditj13]

Thx kwotipka -

by "switched" I meant that we have a switch panel at the sound booth that turns power on to certain lights/dimmers on the light bar.
Each switch is on its own 20 amp breaker in the distribution panel.

There is nothing near the light bar, with the exception of the ceiling tiles above it.

Unfortunatly, the light bar is not movable, and is suspended about 20 feet in the air - I am waiting on someone to bring a lift to get to it


Is there any harm in me plugging everything in as it is (assuming I get all the lights working) and seeing if the controller will work with the dimmers?

Thanks

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by kwotipka

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the voltage on pin 1 and the data on 2 with pin 3 being a common ground on most of those systems? Hince the problem with people who make mic cables and ground pin 1 to the hood of the connector. This in turns takes the B+ voltage to chassie ground.
kw

Well, that would be intelligent, and I didn't read all of the manual, and I have never used that gear before. It would certainly be nice if it was standard like that.

[banditj13]

icewolf - I had previously pulled the manuals for all three dimmers

My biggest problem is the manual for the lightronics appears to be for the 41/412 - a different dimmer than the 41 - the 41 has no dip switches or anything. It simply has power in, 4 channels of power out, mpx in and out, and a dial for the starting channel (1,5,9 etc)
I don't recall the manual for the lightronics saying anything about phantom power....

I have the manual for the NSI, but I am confused about micro, multi, and ultra plex...

I have hesitated in plugging the control in, as I knew the NSI was sending phantom voltage... The crappy manual that ETA included with their board says that the mc8c can be powered by the dimmer, but doesn't give me any pinouts on it....

[kwotipka]

Ok, here is a simple test you can do:

If the console uses a wall wart power supply, do not plug it in. Plug 4 low wattage lights into the console (60w is fine). Using a TESTED (pin 1-1, 2-2, 3-3) mic cable, plug the dimmer and the console together. If the console powers up, see if it can control the dimmer. (Make sure that all of the dip switches are set to off for the address or check the menu to make sure that the dimmer is set to channels 1-4.) If it can control the dimmer, power down the dimmer and do the same with the other dimmer.

Most of the NSI line and quite a few others put voltage down pin 1 so that it would power small consoles. I think that the current is only about 1A max so it wouldn't work with larger consoles.

Hook the two dimmers and the console together. When you operate channels 1-4, both dimmers should respond (since you set them that way).

If the console does not come on when you power up the dimmer, either the dimmer doesn't support this or the low voltage regulator in the dimmer is bad. If neither dimmer powers the console, then it must be powered via an external power supply.

Also, don't get phantom power (audio) and power down a separate pin confused. They are two separate things.