65Q 6" Fresnel Altman

[Charc]

I tried searching for "65Q", but to no avail, it was too short!

I'm trying to figure out how I can differentiate between the old Altman 6", and the one that looks identical, but is referred to as the 65Q, accepting the quartz lamp. I'm making a little re-lamp guide, to help out the maintenance guy , I just want to make sure I've got everything squared away.

[gafftapegreenia]

Well, I'm not really sure, but I was looking at some documents on the Altman website, and it seems the biggest difference between the 65 and 65Q is degree of the beam from spot to flood. There is a couple degree difference on each model.

[Les]

The lamp bases should be the same. The only things I can think of as being a difference is possibly in the reflector and lens. I've seen some older ones with a small (approx. 1") reflective dish directly behind the lamp. Behind that is another thin reflective disc (flat), approximately 3-4 inches diameter. I'm not sure but I think the 65Q has a single more common parabolic reflector about 4" dia. The other thing is the lenses. The older 65 has larger stipples on the back as well as larger concentric rings while the 65Q has smaller stipples and tighter rings, and a smaller center-lens-thing. That may account for the difference in degrees.

I would say paint the 65 black if it needs it, throw in a quartz lamp and call it a 'Q'. Unless that would cause problems in which case I hope someone corrects me! (the only potential problem I can think of is melting the reflector with the intense Q lamp heat, but from what I remember they're pretty thick). And assuming the leads are updated.

[gafftapegreenia]

The expanded parts view shows the mini dish reflector as being obsolete. However, going off of the 75Q's (8 inch Fresnels) at school, the older ones have the large reflector, 3 wire asbestos leads, and use double ended halogen lamps. The newer ones have the small reflector, the standard fiberglass sheathed leads, and the mini reflector. My guess is that the larger reflector came first as it was needed to capture the light from the larger filament structure of an incandescent, non-halogen lamp. All the old Capitol and Century 6" Fresnels I've seen have the larger reflector. With the advent of the single ended halogen lamp, it is likely Altman introduced the mini reflector to work with the smaller filament structure, but then discontinued the mini reflector when they realized their larger reflector worked better. But hey, this is just my educated guess. As long as the filament height is the same between the two, I doubt their is an appreciable difference. I think ship knows, he's mentioned "converting" 65's in the past.

The lenses sounds like a better way to tell the difference.

[derekleffew]

Sound reasoning there, greenia, and I suspect factual too. Although I don't see what all the fuss is over Fresnels, they really are an obsolete fixture. If ETC don't make it, you don't need it. (Said after working yet another show with not a single piece of ETC kit.)

[gafftapegreenia]

Really, not a single Source 4 in the rig?

The times they are a-changin'. But hey that's all they ever do.

Oh, and Fresnel's aren't dead, they have just been reborn. How many of your favorite intelligent lighting 'wash' style fixtures use Fresnel lenses, huh?

[Charc]

37-0200?! I've never seen that before. I just had a thought hough. Maybe I could tell the difference based on the type of tilt lock? I have the old metal diamonds, not the newer plastic handles. Is that a tip? I don't think I have a known 65Q for comparison, or that would help.

Wow, not to hijack my own thread but I really want to find out what the #!$%!#%$!$ a "LEKO" is. I have one "LEKO", it appears to have no brand marking, it appears to be a relatively new fixture, (Probably designed with 575W lamp in mind, lamped with FEL) we only have one, it has a sorta unique shape around the reflector area, and it bugs the crap out of me. Things should come in twos.

Back to my thread:

Any other thoughts here? If greenia doesn't know, then hell, I'm screwed.

Edit: And what does part 06-0371 do? I don't think I've seen that either.

[gafftapegreenia]

Sorry Charc, high school we had 65Q's with the large reflector and the metal diamonds, so I really don't think that is the key. Mind you our 65Q's were also brown. They could have been re-lamped 65's, but they didn't seem old enough. The 75Q's I've seen with mini reflector's were brown, and the 65Q's I've seen with mini reflectors were black. It would help if I knew a timeline for paint schemes.

Oh LEKO's, yay!

Here's my summary:

Well, as you should know, Century Lighting invented the LEKO (Or was that Kliegl?? Or was it Strand, as the Strand Archive claims??). Anywho. Either way, both Century and Kliegl released the first ellipsoidal reflector spots around the same time, and Century named their's the LEKO, a name derived from the names of the two men who invented it. Century was later purchased in 1969 by Rank, who had also just bought Strand a year earlier. The UK came to know Strand as Rank-Strand, and the US came to know it as Strand-Century. The Century part of the name was later dropped. I believe your light was made by Strand in the 1980's and was designed with the FEL in mind. Derek knows Strand better than me, he can elaborate.


Edit: Your parts questions.

06-0371 is a metal rod that allows the front face of the 65Q to swing open. Without that rod it would just fall off when you loosened the top screw.

And about that top screw, 37-0200. Again, another discrepancy in models. Some have the screw on top that must be loosened in order to swing down the face. Others, and probably what your familiar with, have a pin on leaf spring. Lift the pin, face swings down.

This is all my best detective work.

[Charc]

Those parts make sense, thanks.

I really need to just get that instrument out of the air and take a ton of pics.

Thinking randomly here: is it worth it for me to wire a stage pin connector on one of those old PC units, with the glob lamp and no reflector? Are replacement lamps even available?

Perhaps the thing to do with the 6" Fresnels is to take a bunch of pictures of those as well. I believe all our Fresnels have one reflector, relatively flat, but punched back a little, in axis with the filament, think doughboy hat, just the punched out area isn't as large:

[gafftapegreenia]

Well we always love pics.

As for PC's with no reflector. Me and ship talked alot about my PC. I finally decided I was going to preserve mine and retire it from stage use. Reasons: a rare type of fixture, no reflector and not as useful being a single unit. So, if you have multiple PC's of the same style, it MIGHT make it worthwhile to bring them back to working conditions. Yes, there are ways to relamp them, even using halogen lamps, but it might take more work than simply popping one in there. So, really, the choice is yours. If in good shape, I would make it useable. If not, use a low wattage lamp and you have an awesome conversation piece to remind everyone to love the S4.