Strand Architectural Lighting.....

First of all, if ANYBODY knows anything about this system provided by strand, please help me.

I have been put in charge (about a year ago) of this ARCHITECTURAL system at our church (separate from our show system).

In the last 36 hours, I've managed to accidentally screw up the system twice, at my expense.

Yesterday was miserable, I was throwing dimmers off manually, when suddenly the whole system went unresponsive. I wound up (after an hour of t-shooting) reseting the big 600 amp breakers downstairs in the electrical room. Let's just say the staff weren't thrilled with this.

Then today, I was trying to save a fade time on a preset up in the hundreds, and it overwrote the whole preset from a totally unrelated preset.....
Wound up reloading my config from yesterday and re-programing..... (the staff never found out about this one, I intend for it to stay this way).


Now, the questions. The ONLY documentation from the system we have is a blueprint from the original install, labeling what lights are wired together. Wow...helpful. Next I have downloaded the operating processor manual (Premier Processor). This is the unit which has a floppy drive on it, where we can load different configurations (sets of presets basically).
Next we have an interface box that connects to our generator starters, in case of power outages....
Next box is a box labeled CD80 (dimmer rack). This is where stuff gets confusing. Our blueprint is labeled in circuits 1-101 (something near there). The box has 80 some dimmers in it. (40 units, dual dimmers). Now, when you shut off dimmer one, circuit one shuts off, which happens to be three general lights. What I have yet to figure out is how 80 some dimmers power 101 circuits, when all 101 circuits are home run back to this dimmer box......

Whats worse, some of the dimmers (20 or so) have red stickers applied to them. We do have emergency lights (which double as real-used lights, controlled by the system, as any other light would be), but for example, circuit 70 is supposivly wired to some spot lights. But is also has one of these red dots on it? These spots aren't emergency lights......
Heres the real catch, as soon as you shut that circuit off and try to power it back up via the dimmer shut off switch...the whole system does that unresponsive thing......

And finally, we have another unit labeled DE90...which I haven't even tried to figure out what it does. I think its the controller-to-processor interface. But I have no ideas....
This unit has no Human interface on it with the exception of a six pin XLR style connector.....not labeled at all.

Documentation for this unit is impossible to understand, because the unit isn't used in stand-alone operation....

Anybody who understands this stuff, please let me know.

[jmabray]

I know the Premiere system, but some of what you are saying does not make sense. I understand that you are frustrated

Originally Posted by Freedomiii6

First of all, if ANYBODY knows anything about this system provided by strand, please help me.
I have been put in charge (about a year ago) of this ARCHITECTURAL system at our church (separate from our show system).
In the last 36 hours, I've managed to accidentally screw up the system twice, at my expense.
Yesterday was miserable, I was throwing dimmers off manually, when suddenly the whole system went unresponsive. I wound up (after an hour of t-shooting) reseting the big 600 amp breakers downstairs in the electrical room. Let's just say the staff weren't thrilled with this.
Then today, I was trying to save a fade time on a preset up in the hundreds, and it overwrote the whole preset from a totally unrelated preset.....
Wound up reloading my config from yesterday and re-programing..... (the staff never found out about this one, I intend for it to stay this way).
Now, the questions. The ONLY documentation from the system we have is a blueprint from the original install, labeling what lights are wired together. Wow...helpful. Next I have downloaded the operating processor manual (Premier Processor). This is the unit which has a floppy drive on it, where we can load different configurations (sets of presets basically).
Next we have an interface box that connects to our generator starters, in case of power outages....

The premiere processor will only take 720K disks if I recall correctly. You need to make sure that your disks are formatted correctly, if that is even possible these days....

Next box is a box labeled CD80 (dimmer rack). This is where stuff gets confusing. Our blueprint is labeled in circuits 1-101 (something near there). The box has 80 some dimmers in it. (40 units, dual dimmers). Now, when you shut off dimmer one, circuit one shuts off, which happens to be three general lights. What I have yet to figure out is how 80 some dimmers power 101 circuits, when all 101 circuits are home run back to this dimmer box......

Your as-builts should tell you this. If it doesn't, get a buddy with a walkie talkie. You sit at the rack. Bring everything up and then trip a breaker one by one. Correct the drawings as need be....

Whats worse, some of the dimmers (20 or so) have red stickers applied to them. We do have emergency lights (which double as real-used lights, controlled by the system, as any other light would be), but for example, circuit 70 is supposEDly wired to some spot lights. But is also has one of these red dots on it? These spots aren't emergency lights......
Heres the real catch, as soon as you shut that circuit off and try to power it back up via the dimmer shut off switch...the whole system does that unresponsive thing......
And finally, we have another unit labeled DE90...which I haven't even tried to figure out what it does. I think its the controller-to-processor interface. But I have no ideas....
This unit has no Human interface on it with the exception of a six pin XLR style connector.....not labeled at all.

That is for an SWC hand held programmer.

Documentation for this unit is impossible to understand, because the unit isn't used in stand-alone operation....

What do you mean it isn't used in stand-alone operation

Anybody who understands this stuff, please let me know.

The DE90 is a Digital Environ can. more than likely what is happening here is that you have 48 (or so) dual dimmer modules in your CD-80 rack and then the remaining circuits (up to 101) is probably in this rack. If you open up the door to the DE90 you should find some additional breakers.

I gotta be honest here though. It really doesn't seem like you should have been put in charge of a system that you have no real understanding of. And if you now that you have no understanding of how it functions, you shouldn't be messing with it. The Premiere system was not really designed to be changed as often as you would a regular control console. It was generally designed with the thought that you would set it and forget it. There are way too many settings that can go wrong with this system to be messing with it constantly, and especially by someone who doesn't know how his entire system functions.

I will help you however I can, to try and get this fixed, but this is something that I would usually charge $110 an hour to do....

First let me rephrase a few things, shall I.

I have been placed in charge with two other people to PROGRAM the system. We were never placed in charge to do anything with the dimmers, etc etc. Our sole purpose is to come in prior to events, program the presets, move those presets to the control pads around the church (move presets to one, two, three, -eight) and leave. Period.

Sorry to have offended you with my lack of knowledge. And sorry for trying to learn something.

Like I did say, I have started shutting off breakers manually to confirm they match the blueprints. Some do. But being that there isn't a dimmer labeled 101, and on the bp there is, maybe you could explain this, for free perhaps?

If you'd like, I can mail you some money?

Programing disks, well, here's something I clearly do know how to do, you take a disk, stick it in the processor unit, and push [format] then [activate]. Make sure you have a piece of tape over the small opening in the bottom right hand corner of the disk. Gee-I'm smarter dan i look. :]

For the record, I was tripping breakers one-by-one, with the two other members of our team, when the system became unresponsive. It just so happens that the breaker that caused this had a red sticker.

Thanks for your help so far.

[Charc]

Sometimes multiple circuits are assigned to one dimmer. However, these are usually labeled with the same number. You may be able to guess (Based on circuit distribution) that perhaps the spare circuits are intended for X use (emergency/egress lighting, house-lighting) and perhaps they have their own dimmers or power transfer. It's possible such circuits exist, but were never labeled correctly, or had a "different" labeling system (such as every fifth circuit). It's also possible there were plans for a second rack, but it was never purchased, and the circuits are not connected.

Because it sounds like you really have no clue what is going on with the distribution up there, I'd make sure I had a light or indicator on every circuit, and flip the breakers one-by-one. Re-create all the paperwork by hand.

jmabray, $110/hr? Spitzer's girl still has you beat!

Believe me, we are redoing all the blueprints from scratch, because nothing, and I mean NOTHING is labeled correctly. There's presets labeled "all off" that we are designated for Mass settings....

Also, all of our lights work, so I don't think certain lights are wired but not connected to dimmers. I think it may be a case of more than one circuit on a dimmer. Now it's up to me to figure out which goes to where.

Like I've said, the info I have now is absolutely USELESS.

[jmabray]

Originally Posted by Freedomiii6

First let me rephrase a few things, shall I.
I have been placed in charge with two other people to PROGRAM the system. We were never placed in charge to do anything with the dimmers, etc etc. Our sole purpose is to come in prior to events, program the presets, move those presets to the control pads around the church (move presets to one, two, three, -eight) and leave. Period.
Sorry to have offended you with my lack of knowledge. And sorry for trying to learn something.
Like I did say, I have started shutting off breakers manually to confirm they match the blueprints. Some do. But being that there isn't a dimmer labeled 101, and on the bp there is, maybe you could explain this, for free perhaps?
If you'd like, I can mail you some money?
Programing disks, well, here's something I clearly do know how to do, you take a disk, stick it in the processor unit, and push [format] then [activate]. Make sure you have a piece of tape over the small opening in the bottom right hand corner of the disk. Gee-I'm smarter dan i look. :]
For the record, I was tripping breakers one-by-one, with the two other members of our team, when the system became unresponsive. It just so happens that the breaker that caused this had a red sticker.
Thanks for your help so far.

Re-reading my response, i can see how I came off as a total ass, That was not the intent and for that I apologize. I have nothing against trying to learn something, but I do get frustrated with people that start trying to reconfigure their system without knowing enough about how it works in the first place.

Again, take a look at the DE90 can. You more than likely have additional dimmers in that can that are the remainder of the system. The Environ cans were smaller in nature than the CD-80 and were designed for a smaller dimmer system. However, when you had just a few more circuits than you could fit in a CD80, (like you do) they usually just stuck an Environ can next to it to make up the additional circuits.

oh, and yeah, Spitzers girl may have me beat, but I don't provide nearly as thorough a service as she does! ;-)

No worries about the first response.

I don't believe my team and I have tried reconfiguring the system, just wound up in a couple tight spots. I feel the same way when I fully understand a system and others don't.

The DE90 Unit does have a few breakers in it (couldn't give you a number, <15).
The CD80 Unit however, is not full. It has, oh, maybe 75-85 breakers in it, leaving about a row and a half in the bottom empty. Taking in account some circuits may be wired to the same dimmer, this may account for the 101+ circuits we supposedly have.

Again, later this week, we will get together (my team and I) and shut down circuits one-by-one. I still don't understand last time when we reset a breaker with a red dot on it, the whole system went unresponsive? Perhaps you could explain this?

Also, further explanation on these red dots? Thanks.

[Charc]

Originally Posted by Freedomiii6

No worries about the first response.
I don't believe my team and I have tried reconfiguring the system, just wound up in a couple tight spots. I feel the same way when I fully understand a system and others don't.
The DE90 Unit does have a few breakers in it (couldn't give you a number, <15).
The CD80 Unit however, is not full. It has, oh, maybe 75-85 breakers in it, leaving about a row and a half in the bottom empty. Taking in account some circuits may be wired to the same dimmer, this may account for the 101+ circuits we supposedly have.
Again, later this week, we will get together (my team and I) and shut down circuits one-by-one. I still don't understand last time when we reset a breaker with a red dot on it, the whole system went unresponsive? Perhaps you could explain this?
Also, further explanation on these red dots? Thanks.

The red-dots explanation is unclear to me. However, even if it doesn't yield any results, we love pictures, plus pictures may give those on CB some more insight into what they mean. So, not having anything helpful to add, I'd say: Go grab a digital camera and take a dozen pics from all of your system, with anything you have a question on, as well as the overall system flow.

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by Freedomiii6

...Also, further explanation on these red dots? Thanks.

My guess is that the "red dot" circuits are the emergency lights, and are fed from the switchover from the emergency generator. The one that you turned off that made the system unresponsive, was it on a CD-80 module or in one of the separate cans? If the former, I can't explain; if the latter, it must feed the main control voltage or power to the Environ/Premiere processor. If you can't get the documentation you need in-house, try giving Strand Lighting a call:714-230-8200, or email: to look up the original drawings; that's why they keep them, for service at a later date.

Edit: just reread the part where you said "circuit 70 is supposedly wired to some spot lights. But is also has one of these red dots on it? These spots aren't emergency lights......
Here's the real catch, as soon as you shut that circuit off and try to power it back up via the dimmer shut off switch...the whole system does that unresponsive thing......"

By "dimmer shut off switch" you mean the dimmer's circuit breaker on the module containing dimmers 69&70, correct? Is that the only "red dot" circuit breaker that makes the system unresponsive, or is it all red dots? Sometimes, certain circuits are wired, after the dimmer, to an EATS, (Emergency Automatic Transfer Switch), so that in case of a power failure, the emergency lighting circuits turn on. Maybe this PDF from Strand will help.

[TimMiller]

I really have no idea why flipping the breaker off on the CD-80 module its self (if this indeed is what you are switching) why the system would lockup. These racks have no sort of feed back to the rack. The only thing i can possibly think of is they have all of the dimmers with red dots on them wired up to a transfer switch and when it detects 0V (even when a dimmer is off you still get some voltage normally) and triggers the system into panic mode. But in all actuality that wouldnt make since.