Conventional Fixtures - Scoops vs. Pars

[lieperjp]

Ok, so new year, new budget.

I am trying to get our tech head to buy some PARs to replace our aging Scoop lights, but I need some good reasons, and maybe some recommendations on Brands. I'd like to see the S4 PARs.

So far, I have:

---Brighter. (If memory serves me right, our Scoops are lit @375w) I would, however, need to see if I it will work without blowing a dimmer, since many of our circuits control 2-3-4 lights. And we don't have nice dimmer racks where it's easy to pull out a blown one and replace with a spare.
---Take up less space on the raceway... those scoops are huge.

Also, opinions on lights "sticking below" the valances. Our electrics hang close to the valances, so currently we have no ellipsoidals over the stage because "they stick out." So, for now, any specials on the back 2/3 of the stage need to be done with our 8" Fresnels. It would be great to see some ellipsoidals over the stage, too.

But, I think this year might be a "big project year" so this would work only if we do not try to replace the sound system. But I don't think we have the budget for that.

[gafftapegreenia]

Question Time!!!!


So, why replace scoops with pars? Seems an interesting choice. Were I replacing scoops, I'd be looking at cyc lights. What are you currently using your scoops for? If it is indeed cyc lighting, then look at cyc lights. The L&E Runt cyc is one such affordable replacement. Or are you using scoops for stage lighting? In that case I'd probably keep them, as they make great work lights as well as stage floods. Or are you looking for a more versatile fixture inventory, in which case I might then choose pars.

What is your current inventory like? What do you have in the ways of pars/fresnels/ellipsoidals/scoops/cycs.If you don't have the money to do a nice big replacement purchase, its a true wonder what a cleaning and relamping with more efficient lamps can do.

Personally, I've always been very fond of Fresnels over the stage. Unless you are trying to do some gobo work or very precise shuttering, to me, fresnels do a great job of working as on stage specials.

Not trying to criticize your plans, I'd just like to hear more about your space, your inventory and your reasoning for new purchases.

[tech2000]

In my school, when we brought in a lighting designer to help us maintain our lights a few years back, he had us chop the stage pin connectors off our par cans. He really did know what he was talking about because (they were the ones the school district bought-probably cheapest) they were meant for outdoor use and not indoors. They really were not safe. When a tech rewired one for use a year or so ago, he plugged it in and flew it out on one of our electrics battens and then it was like a fireworks show. Amazing nothing caught fire.
We will be getting rid of them soon.
Scoops are pretty nice, they give out a lot of light.

[Goph704]

Money is a really good bargaining chip.

For the older scoops I work with I have to use a full sheet of gel to cover the entire surface area of the light. With a par, even an older fixture I can get four cuts out of one sheet. Down here in tobacco row a sheet can cost between seven and ten dollars, one instrument per sheet vs. four instruments per sheet.
Also your lamps tend to last longer in pars than in the older scoops, and the lamps are easier to find and sometimes somewhat cheaper.

I don't know anything about your space, so I can't really say which instrument to recommend. You might want to think seriously about Fresnel's or cyc lights, ( some really good advice is to not get rid of your old lighting equipment until your sure that it's totally useless. but you'll find out as you do research on your purchases what will be best for you. But for me, updating stock has always saved me cash in the long run.

And that's my two cents.

[Clifford]

Don't scoops, by nature, tend to give a more flourescent light? Most of ours are lamped with flourescent lamps. We only use them for work or if we need a large amount of colored light with a low wattage. Otherwise we just use fresnels. This is something I would consider when buying.

[lieperjp]

Let's see.

Inventory is roughly (I'm not at school so I don't have EXACT counts

About 10 Strand-Century Lekolights
About 10 S4 (I believe they are Zooms)
The above are on our catwalk.

On stage:
about 18 8' Fresnels which are what I use for specials and small washes
about 20 Scoops which I use for general stage washes

Also, 4 R40 strip lights (3 channels each) along the front of the stage.

I also have 3 Altman mini-ellipsoidals, not sure what type. They are terrible and I only use them if I absolutely have to.

So, the reason I would like to add some pars is mostly because we don't have any and I find them useful for talent show chase sequences/busking. We do not have a cyc (something I'm trying to get our theatre club to purchase) but we do use a scrim sometimes, and sometimes we use it as a cyc. This usually happens only once in a great while, so I can bring out the scoops for that.

We do 4 theater shows in a year (one musical, two plays, and one play designed for children that usually has a dance sequence where the director wants a light show.)

Also, we do roughly 2-3 multiple act talent shows and 4-6 band nights (where only one or two bands play) in a year.

Our Band rehearses on stage, sometimes they use the stage lights, sometimes not. Set building usually uses the work lights, mostly because they are not allowed to touch the board and dimmers and also to save electricity.

[Grog12]

Did I really just see like 3 different posts in favor of scoops?

Remember he wants to replace them with S4 pars...more bang for the buck as it were.
Optically a 375 S4 PAR is going to outshoop a 375 Scoop in terms of brightness.
Coverage is a different probelm.

I'd probably suggest the S4PARnel instead...but that's just me.

Also either way a PAR can or a S4 PAR tends to be safer than a scoop when the the lamp blows and rains glass down upon the people below.

Anyway...what is the actual dimming capability in your space?

[Les]

Am I the only one who thinks scoops and fresnels/pars are like apples and oranges?

They really are different species of lighting instruments and will give a much different kind of light. Fresnels and Pars are more directional and intense while a scoop is a softer flood. I would not replace, I would supplement. Scoops are very straight forward electrically, so replacing any worn sockets/whips would be very cost effective and simple. The gel thing is a good point, and it does sound like your scoops are being used for the wrong purpose. The scoops are probably best suited for fill light as opposed to key light.

As for fluorescent, they're not. Unless they have CFL's in them (and I have yet to find a mogul screw base CFL), scoops should give off a very warm incandescent light. Note that I am not talking about scoops that take a halogen T3 lamp.

[lieperjp]

Originally Posted by Grog12

Anyway...what is the actual dimming capability in your space?

I'm not at school, so I have no Idea. I'm not even sure what the brand name of the dimmers is!!! The only thing I know is that we have eight packs that control six circuits each, each pack is directly connected to a breaker panel at 40 amps each. I would trust the packs, but the raceways are from the 70's so I don't know if the wires are heavy enough gauge.

[tech2000]

Originally Posted by Grog12

Did I really just see like 3 different posts in favor of scoops?

My school only has 2 scoops and a lamp for only 1 of those so we don't ever use them. (Except as work light one time)