Conventional Fixtures - New vs. Old 36° S4

[derekleffew]

A colleague/friend of mine, and member of CB, is incensed that ETC changed the field angle of the 436 between 11/2001 (Cut sheet Revision C) and 12/2007 (Cut sheet Revision F--current). STEVETERRY has previously <stated/admitted/disclosed/confessed/boasted> that there have been many changes to the SourceFour fixtures since 1992, and most are minor and not apparent to the consumer. Has anyone ever had a genuine problem mixing older and newer fixtures?

He is particularly angry at ETC for not making a more public notice. (I did point out to him that all the cut sheets include the phrase "All product information and specifications subject to change.", but that didn't seem to comfort him. Do you think a manufacturer has an obligation to inform the consumer when a relatively minor specification has changed?

[Grog12]

Hmmm....if I have its never been enough to notice. I mean I've had the typical older instruments not being benched properly ect ect....but never a true blue "god this batch of S4's really outperforms those perfectly in good condition old S4's."

What exactly is the change in field angle for us uniformed?

[derekleffew]

Sorry, Grog12, thoughtless of me not to include complete documentation. Although this would be so much easier if I could attach the PDFs directly. How's that problem coming, dvsDave?

436 Revision C, dated 11/2001. 436 Revision F, dated 12/2007. The first shows the beam angle as 25°, field angle as 35°, and candlepower as 82,000. The most current shows the beam angle as 27°, field angle as 34°, and candela as 90,885. Both indicate an HPL 750W/115V as the basis for testing. Perhaps it's akin to candy bars getting smaller while the price stays the same, so the consumer doesn't notice he's being ripped off? My guess is different lenses and/or coatings.

Now of course I'm going to have to go and check all the SourceFour sheets.

[Wolf]

I think if they're going to be changes to any fixture no matter how small they should be published. They dont need to make it a big deal but dedicate a section on the web site to miner changes. This way if the customer wants to check it out they can but if they dont really care they dont have to know.

[jmabray]

But they did publish it. IN the cut sheet, and, I assume, in the manual, as well. They didn't make that big of a deal of it, true, but it's not like they tried to sneak it past anyone.....

Based upon their history, I am sure that if there were a significant change to any of their products, the would make sure to make it very public knowledge

[MNicolai]

I must admit, I wouldn't mind finding out what the "Rev G" on the barrel of my S436° signifies. If a degree or two of is different between new and old models, I don't know I'd be particularly upset. I don't really deal in throws that are so incredibly long that a couple of degrees results in a life or death consequence, though I wouldn't mind being told about it.

[jmabray]

i can't speak specifically as to what the "Rev. G" means, but it could be something as insignificant as needing a new casting for the the barrel.

My point is, that its really a way for a manufacturer to make some changes to a particular product and what they did. If it doesn't really effect prodcut performance, its not that big of a deal.

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by derekleffew

Do you think a manufacturer has an obligation to inform the consumer when a relatively minor specification has changed?[/COLOR]

Problem is the definition of "minor"

To Tim it wasn't minor, though I got the sense that he discovered it while rendering/working in Vectorworks ? and not actually while seeing it on a set/stage ?.

Having read the threads on LN, I had a couple of thoughts.

- If they were all rental units, did the shop even know ?. Would they be that much on top of it to have different lens tubes for ea. and every variation that ever came out of ETC ?. Doubtful. Bottom line is you end up with what they give you, and I know of NO shop in the US that keeps track of these changes, so shut up and deal with it. As you stated Derek, it's as much art as science. Tim is incorrect when he states that corporate events need to be scientific. Bull. They hired a Lighting "Designer" not an "Engineer", act like one and make it work.

- But, it makes me wonder about just how precise our industry can be with the technology AND the financial considerations. If NASA couldn't get the Hubble optically at 100%, who expects ETC to ?.

At least it's not the good old days of "Is that Rosco R34 or R34A".

- What would Tim have done, or what would he do if he was in a European hall with everything as zooms ?. Hmmm.... probably would have taken off his Engineers hat and put on his Designers hat.

My $.02

Steve B.

[Grog12]

Originally Posted by jmabray

But they did publish it. IN the cut sheet, and, I assume, in the manual, as well.

Yeah..I'm going to have to go ahead and agree 100% with this.

That's what cut sheets are for. Its not like the HD fancysmancy lens they released so there's no need for a great big hooplah over it.

[MNicolai]

Not to be over-critical, but in the event there were changes, how would I go about getting data sheets for the lights I own, and how do I identify which Rev sheet I would need? Is that by manufacture date?

I'm trying not to think of the logistical mess that would be for each Rev of each degree/model of S4, but it's not so bad if the 36° is the only one with a change made to it.